Liquid vs Air Cooling final verdict

[roelofcoertse21]

So I've just got a quick question, was wondering if someone could convince me into either one of the 2, I'm about 50/50 on this. Based on performance purely, will I be able to overclock at a more stable rate with air cooling or liquid cooling, there's not much benchmarks for my 2 choices. I travel with my desktop rig quite often, every 2nd weekend for a LAN or so. I would like to know which one between the Cooler Master MA610P air cooler or the Cooler master ML120L liquid cooler would give me the best performance boost, with the sturdiest fit for traveling.
I'm running on an FX-6300 Black Edition and I'm saving to upgrade to Ryzen, I just want to squeeze out a little more before I let go of my CPU.
Any advice appreciate.
Thanx in advance.

 

[Darkbreeze]

High end air coolers perform as good or better than most AIO closed loop coolers. There are of course some that perform better, marginally, but they are also louder once you factor in pump noise and at least two fans that will be directly reacting to the CPU thermal diode, which normal case fans do not do, they respond to a different, much slower changing thermal diode.

They also don't have the potential for leaks, which can and do happen on both closed loop and open loop coolers. That is not to say that for some a water cooled system isn't appropriate, because it can be, but for the type of system you are talking about any of the big air coolers are not only probably less expensive, they will do just as well if not better in some cases.

That air cooler however is not very good.

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/cooler-master-masterair-ma610p-cpu-cooler,5423-2.html


I would highly recommend looking at cooler models by Noctua, Cryorig, Phanteks and Thermalright (NOT Thermaltake) if you want a very good air cooler. The twin fan, twin fin stack coolers are obviously going to offer better performance in most cases than the single thin finstack models, however even for a thin model, the Noctua NH-U14S almost keeps up with the Noctua NH-D14 and D15, so that's an option, as is the Thermalright Macho rev.B. The Cryorig H5 is also very good. For a budget cooler, the Deepcool Gammaxx 400 is probably the best choice out there below thirty bucks.

 

[roelofcoertse21]

Thank you for the detailed explanation, although I'm not quite sure what you meant by the thermal diodes. Could you maybe elaborate on that a bit please.

I know Noctua has a very good reputation, but I was hoping to add a bit of flare to my build with the RGB elements, which is why I thought of those Cooler Master models, as they were both within my budget.

I'll definitely check out your suggestions.
I also thought that it would be best if I stuck with an air cooler especially if I were to carry and travel with my PC every second weekend or so.
Thnx for the advice..

 

[Darkbreeze]

The thermal diodes are what the system uses to "know" what temperature something is. The CPU has thermal diodes for each core and for the package temperature. The motherboard has thermal diodes for the VRM and voltage regulation components, and for various other system components that are integrated into the motherboard. When using the "CPU" temperatures for speed control (Changeable in most modern motherboard BIOS on a per fan header basis, or specifically using the CPU thermal diode readings for fans connected to the CPU or CPU OPT fan headers) fans are going to go up and down, WAY faster than when connected to other thermal monitoring diodes on the motherboard as the CPU can raise by tens of degrees Celsius in less than a second, and drop just as quickly. Other thermal sensors on the motherboard tend to be a more gradual process, so fans using those sensors/diodes will have a more tempered fan response and not go way up and way down everytime the CPU is doing something and then stops doing that something.

It would be very aggravating to have the case fans ramp up and down, up and down, up and down, every time a core comes under a load and then completes it's work and rapidly cools down. None of that actually pertains to what I was referring to in your case though, and is only for informational purposes.

In your case, the fans on the radiator WOULD in ALL cases be expected to be connected via the CPU fan or CPU OPT header, depending on whether or not the board itself has a dedicated AIO pump header or not, and WOULD be reacting directly to CPU temperature. So then what happens is that you now have two fans, very close to the outside of the case since that's where the radiator will be installed regardless of which location, front, back or top, it may be located at, that will be ramping up and down constantly unlike a normal case fan and unlike a CPU air cooler that is buried in the middle of the case which somewhat tempers the amount of sound you actually HEAR from that fan or fans since it's NOT as close to the outside of the case.

That means an air cooler is somewhat more muffled than the fans from an AIO cooler and not as annoying or noticeable, but some people could care less as they are usually wearing headphones or simply are not bothered by the increase in fan noise anyhow. Personal preference. If you prefer a quieter PC, then you probably want an air cooler OR a larger AIO cooler that doesn't NEED to run the fans as fast to provide the same level of cooling. Again, budget and personal preference will likely dictate these decisions. Some swear by water cooling, while others, like myself, choose to use safer and usually quieter means. Obviously nothing compares to a custom loop water cooler, but that's a whole different level of cooling with a whole other level of cost as well.

If you plan to move this system around a lot, I'd stick to an air cooler because air locks inside AIO coolers are a very real problem when something gets moved around in a lot of instances. Air bubbles inside the loop get trapped in a certain area where they are not easily removed without tilting the case side to side or elevating parts of the loop to get it back where it belongs. Just a hassle in my opinion, if it happens. It doesn't always, but it certainly and does in some cases.

 

[roelofcoertse21]

You were of excellent help, thank you very much.

If you don't mind, I would like to hear your opinion.

So I was taking a look at 2 different CM air coolers. If you'd like to visit my trusted Tech store, go to Evetech.co.za.
This is the best priced and trusted website in South Africa, although there are some others that I've used and purchased from before, Evetech has never let me down with delays or issues with the product, which is why I prefer to shop there.

So I came across the CM MA410M which has a sick cool RGB cave down the middle which gives it that unique mirror effect of the NZXT Kraken AIO.
It comes with 2 fans for a cool push-pull setup, although it only has 4 heatpipes, which is kind of my main concern.
Then on the other hand with the CM MA620P it has twin towers, similar to the single tower of the 212 EVO. Some reviews claim it to be the 212 EVO on steroids with a massive 6 heatpipe CDC. It also includes 2 fans with one on the outside and one in between the fin towers. It has a very subtle RGB element, but with limited customization.

If you've got time, please check these out for me. I'd like to hear your opinion.
My system specs:
- MSI 970 Gaming MOBO
- AMD FX-6300 Black Edition (Stock Cooler)
- Ballistix Tactical Tracer (Red & Green) [2x4GB @ 1866MHz]
- ASUS GTX 1070 ROG Strix Gaming
- Cooler Master B700 ver.2 80PLUS
- Samsung 850 Evo 500GB SSD
- Seagate 1TB @ 7200 rpm
- NZXT Phantom 410 Case

Which one of the 2 coolers do you think will I be able to squeeze literally every last bit of my FX-6300 out of it, before I have to upgrade.
I believe the 6 pipe Cooler would be best, although I don't know how the twin towers will perform against the single tower.

 

[hang-the-9]

Why bother spending the money on a new cooling setup when you are working on a replacement? For the cost of a water cooling setup or high end air cooler you can pretty much buy a new CPU. Leave the system as it is, put the $30,100 whatever you are looking to spend towards a new CPU. Your CPU is by far the worst part. In fact, if you sell your mobo, CPU and RAM as a bundle you will be pretty close to a new setup as it is.

 

[Darkbreeze]

I agree with that, and also don't. A good cooler is rarely is a waste, as it can usually be moved from system to system so long as the appropriate adapters either come with the cooler or can be obtained, to ensure it will work on the socket you upgrade to. The rest, agreed. Anything other than the cooler, is a waste to invest in a system that is long past the point of being relevant anymore.

In this case though, chances are good that you would not even NEED to overclock anything if you simply didn't spend the money on a new cooler, upgraded to a newer platform and used the stock cooler that would come WITH that new platform, if one come with it. If you will upgrade to a CPU that doesn't come with a cooler, then a new cooler now, so long as it will be compatible with the new system, probably isn't a waste at all unless you're planning to pull the trigger on the upgrade fairly soon. Overclocking on the FX-6300 isn't going to change things much for you though. Even at a maximum overclock, if the board you are using is even CAPABLE of supporting one, will give you minimal gains at best.

 

[roelofcoertse21]

Both valid suggestions, but my idea is to get an aftermarket cooler now and I've checked that the cooler is adaptable for both my current socket and the new AM4/AM4+ socket as I'm planning on getting one of the new Ryzen CPU's. I just thought that any other cooler would be better than the stock cooler and would help a little with thermal throttling. I'm planning on getting a new Mobo kit by June or so. In that case I wonder whether I should get a new CPU with the stock fan or without one as I'll be carrying over the aftermarket cooler. It would probably be best to get one with a cooler in case I have issues with thale aftermarket cooler down the line for some odd reason.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Having an extra cooler that will "work" in an emergency, is always a good thing. Fans do fail, and it takes at least two days usually, even with a Prime account or something similar, to get a new one sent unless you're fortunate enough to have a shop or electronics store down the road that stocks quality replacements.

However, just buying an extra fan for that eventuality makes having a stock cooler kind of a moot point, and you can buy a very good quality fan, probably much better than what comes on most coolers these days, for about 25 bucks or thereabouts. If you put THAT on your cooler, then you have a better performing cooler than it was out of the box PLUS you have the fan that came on it to use as a backup in the event it should ever take a dirt nap.

I'd personally go with a one-step-up CPU model that comes with a higher factory base clock and no CPU cooler because generally speaking these are samples that were binned higher, meaning they are overall, better silicon, and will likely perform better and overclock better, and even if they don't turn out to be great overclocking samples, you'll at least have the higher factory clocks than with the lower tiered unit that came with a cooler.

That is assuming you go with an air cooler though. If you decide to go with an AIO cooler, I'd HIGHLY recommend that you have SOME KIND of backup cooler, because failures on AIO units not only happens, it's common. Pumps on a lot of these unit fail, or air pockets develop inside the loop that refuse to unlock which renders the cooler useless unless you can get the air bubble away from the pump. I'm sure there are other modes of failure as well, so without a backup cooler, you are without that system until such time as you get it replaced or buy something to replace it with. At least with a stock cooler or cheap aftermarket (Better option) you can at least use that system in the meanwhile.

 

[roelofcoertse21]

Thank you very much for all the advice.

I'm planning on getting a 1600X or maybe the 2600 and I've seen that their stock coolers aren't too bad for a stock cooler, much better than their tiny blocky squirm of a cooler.

For me budget wise, I think I'm gonna take the air cooler and upgrade my CPU a little later on, use the aftermarket cooler and keep the stock cooler as a temporary backup, just in case something goes wrong, which I don't believe would be highly likely, but like you said, just keep the stock cooler for a while until I get a new aftermarket cooler again.

But you've definitely answered more than I could've asked for.
Thank you for all the advice.
I'm definitely going with a higher end air cooler and definitely upgrading my MoBo kit in the near future.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Good luck to you. Hope all works out the way you want. Take care.