List of SSDs with SandForce SSDs with Toggle NAND

checkitman22

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Tom's only lists

Mushkin Chronos Deluxe, Patriot Wildfire, OCZ Vertex 3 Max IOPS, Kingston HyperX 3K, OWC Mercury Extreme Pro 6G

I know there are more, what are they? Is there a list anywhere? If not someone should make one.
 
Samsung 830 Series, Future Storage, Plextor PX-M3S, and SanDisk Extreme also use Toggle NAND.

The Kingston HyperX 3K is a "value ssd". If memory serves it uses less expensive NAND supplied by Intel.

A lot of the Toggle NAND in consumer grade ssd's is manufactured by Toshiba. Samsung and SanDisk use their own.

There aren't that many consumer grade ssd's using Toggle NAND.
 

checkitman22

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Are the Samsung and Plextor drives just as reliable? I know SanForce used to not be but I think with the right updates they are fine. I haven't read much on the reliability of Samsung and Plextor. I'm trying to find the cheapest Toggle NAND drive that is still reliable.
 
blazorthon - You are correct. I figured I would add them since there are so few drives.

Checkitman22 - SSD's are relatively new so long term reliability is not yet known. It will take a few years to establish reliability. By then we will probably have upgraded to something new and improved. So far Samsung has an extremely good track record. I am not familiar with Plextor but technical reviews have been very favorable.
 


SandForce drives are still the least reliable SSDs (except maybe Intel's SandForce drives; Intel has a history of reliable SSDs and unlike the other SandForce drives, I've yet to need to help someone on a problem with an Intel SSD). Not having a SandForce drive increases reliability incredibly because pretty much all other controllers are more reliable. The problem with them is that the only non-SandForce drive that ca keep up with the SandForce drives in all workloads is the Vertex 4. If you want the fastest drive for all workloads, the Vertex 4 is the way to go, although I don't know if it will be the cheapest. Don't think that just because a cheaper drive has toggle-mode Flash, the cheaper drive can come at all close to the Sandforce drives in compressible throughput or to the Vertex 4 in any read/write throughput.
 

checkitman22

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So the Samsung drives aren't nearly as fast then? =/
 
The OCZ Vertex 4 was just released last month. Issues popped up. At the beginning of this month OCZ issued a firmware update. There are still a few minor issues which need to be worked on so that means at least one more firmware update. I'd wait a few months and see how it plays out before recommending the Vertex 4.

On the plus side the "Indilinx Everest 2" controller is actually a modified Marvell controller :)
 


The 830s aren't as fast for writing data as the SandForce drives, but they are still far faster than a hard drive. Their advantage is that the beat the crap out of SandForce drives for in-compressible data throughput and come close for reading throughput with both compressible and in-compressible data. The 830s also have the advantage of using almost zero power compared to other drives, although that's not too important outside of a mobile computer.
 


I'm surprised... Usually, no one believes me when I say that the Vertex 4s have a modified Marvell controller, not an Indilinx controller until I show them half a dozen links proving it.
 

checkitman22

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Regardless of anything I will never purchase an OCZ drive, or any OCZ products. I've had nothing bad bad luck with their PSUs and RAM both. I also hear worst things about their drives. I would just go Patriot or Kingston if I was going to go top dollar but I'm just looking for something reliable that is around the 85-90c per GB mark if I can't find it while still performing epic.
 


OCZ's drives aren't the problem, it's SandForce. OCZ gets the heat because they are the biggest supplier of SandForce drives, but all SandForce drives have the problems that are seen by OCZ's older drives. Vertex 4 does not have the problems that the older drives had, like all of the other Marvell and other non-SandForce drives. Also, their PSUs are fine if you use the right ones. OCZ does not make PSUs, they simply re-brand other companies' PSUs as OCZ and the newer OCZ PSUs are much better than the old ones. OCZ's RAM was also okay, it often just needed a voltage jump.

OCZ has recovered since their earlier problems, I assure you. Also, if you want supreme reliability, then Patriot and Kingston are NOT the way to go. Go for any non-SandForce drives, or any Intel drives. Vertex 4 is included in that, but if you are so adamant against them for their past problems, then get a Samsung, Plextor, Marvell, Crucial, or Intel drive. Vertex 4 is still my recommendation.

EDIT: I just checked and Vertex 4 is a little out of what you want to pay. The 128GB version is $150 on newegg. I guess OCZ wants to make sure that they get their money's worth when they sell you a top of the line SSD.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167122

Here's an Intel 180GB SSD for only $140 if you use the MIR. Is that acceptable?
 

checkitman22

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Looking for 240GB drives.

Was looking at these.

http://www.logicbuy.com/deals/samsung-830-series-256gb-ssd/38304.aspx

http://www.logicbuy.com/deals/sandisk-extreme-240gb-internal-ssd/39362.aspx

Also you can't just "forgive" OCZ because they used parts from other companies that were poor, that was still a choice on their part, whether they manufactured them or not. Also on both replacements of my RAM (twice) and PSU (once) it was a hassle and the customer support was wretched. I'd rather stay away. I wanted to like them because back in the DDR2 days OCZ made great ram and I never had problems with them, they lost my support as the years went on.
 


Of those two drives, I'd get the Samsung 830.
 


There are many different aspects of performance. The Sandforce drives are next to useless with in-compressible data compared to most other non-SandForce SSDs because they rely on data being compressed for them to be as fast as they are. They beat SandForce in some ways, SandForce just wins in more than it loses against them. Vertex 4 is the only exception to this because it meets or beats SandForce in every aspect of SSD performance despite also being more reliable due to not being a SandForce based drive and that is why I like to recommend it. SandForce is actually a low performance controller and it's high performance is strictly because of it compressing data. SandForce is really just a poor quality controller.
 
I haven't posted it for a while but here is the standard recommendation I've made countless times:

If reliability and stability is a major concern, then Samsung is worth considering. Samsung was awarded contracts to supply Dell, Sony, Lenovo, Apple and other off the shelf brands with OEM versions of their 470 Series SATA 2 3Gb/s ssd's. Eventually the 470's were released for retail sale to consumers. There have been no major issues reported. The 470 has an absolutely stellar record.

Then Samsung released their 830 Series SATA 3 6Gb/s ssd's as successors to the 470. The first ones were OEM versions for Dell and the other off the shelf brands followed by release of retail versions for consumers. The ssd's are Samsung's own design with their own components and firmware. It looks like Samsung got it right again.

Here is a link the to ssd database:

http://www.johnnylucky.org/data-storage/ssd-database.html

Scroll down to the brands and models you are interested in and then click on the links to the technical reviews.

NOTE - Sometimes I've recommended Crucial and Intel too.
 


Marketing plays a big part in that and the fact that the SandForce drives have huge theoretical speeds tricks a lot of people into buying something that might not be the best option for their situation. It's like USB 2.0 versus Friewire. Which is faster? Well, USB 2.0 has 480MB/s maximum theoretical and Firewire has 400MB/s maximum theoretical, so people think USB is faster, despite the fact that Firewire often gets over 90% of it's maximum theoretical perfomrance and USB rarely gets more than half of it's maximum theoretical performance. Firewire was almost always faster and by a lot, and despite it even being older than USB, USB still took dominance over Firewire to the point where Firewire has been practically dead in the consumer markets for years (Firewire also had many other uses. For example, until gigabit Ethernet, it was the fastest cheap home networking interface). The better products actually tend to not win, it's usually the company (or companies) who can and does sell better that wins. For example, Amiga was decades ahead of other computers of it's time in many ways, yet where are they today? They're in basements and museums. The company who can control the market wins pretty much every time, even if their product is inferior and SandForce does a great job of that.
 
I have bought from them several times. Each time it was a hot deal at LogicBuy like the ones you looked at today. Processing is a little slower than Newegg. They don't ship same day that you order. Free shipping is the standard Fedex 7 to 10 days.

I bought a Samsung Series 830 256GB ssd from them for $225.00 and free shipping. It arrived yesterday. I installed it in my wife's pc this evening. No problems at all.
 

checkitman22

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How are the speeds feel compared to what you use?