News LK-99 Research Continues, Paper Says Superconductivity Could be Possible

[Admin]

As the scientific community seems to have largely settled in that LK-99 isn't the best thing since sliced bread, researchers around the world still find reasons to understand it.

LK-99 Research Continues, Paper Says Superconductivity Could be Possible : Read more

 

[A Stoner]

I hope it works out. I always thought the rush to spike this research was premature and the desire for rapid confirmation was not such a good pathway. I am glad that people are still working on it and hope they put the appropriate amount of efforts into it.

 

[elforeign]

Many of the articles concerning LK-99 mention the fact the original paper poorly described the baking process and so it's difficult to ascertain how the authors arrived at the material displaying room temperature superconductivity.

Is this a matter of purposely obscuring the process they used for selfish interest? or is it that the authors didn't properly document the baking process and so just happened on a lucky sample that supposedly demonstrated superconductivity?

I'm wondering why none of the articles mention pressing the original authors for more details regarding how they arrived at the material leading to their claims?

As always, thanks for the continued updates on the LK-99 saga, hopefully more good is to come from better understanding this material.

 

[helper800]

In many old posts about technology leaps, I always stated that materials science is the next great leap in non-quantum computing. If we could somehow get a room-temperature superconductor that we can use to make traces and complex components, we would have PCs without cooling being required. We could have CPUs with architectures unbound by thermal issues due to density. Think of CPUs with 16 chiplets and 4 IO dies at current densities that give off less than 5 watts of heat.

 

[vanadiel007]

In many old posts about technology leaps, I always stated that materials science is the next great leap in non-quantum computing. If we could somehow get a room-temperature superconductor that we can use to make traces and complex components, we would have PCs without cooling being required. We could have CPUs with architectures unbound by thermal issues due to density. Think of CPUs with 16 chiplets and 4 IO dies at current densities that give off less than 5 watts of heat.

That is a pipe dream with current computer models. Data has to be stored in RAM, which cannot be done using super conductivity because the memory cells have to store data and be switched on or off accordingly. And super conductivity for a CPU is not possible either, since transistors have to be made with doped material to function. While there are transistors that operate using super conductivity, they are very sensitive to low level magnetic radiation and for sure not easily integrated in an electronic device, let alone the NM scale of processors.

 

[vanadiel007]

Many of the articles concerning LK-99 mention the fact the original paper poorly described the baking process and so it's difficult to ascertain how the authors arrived at the material displaying room temperature superconductivity.

Is this a matter of purposely obscuring the process they used for selfish interest? or is it that the authors didn't properly document the baking process and so just happened on a lucky sample that supposedly demonstrated superconductivity?

I'm wondering why none of the articles mention pressing the original authors for more details regarding how they arrived at the material leading to their claims?

As always, thanks for the continued updates on the LK-99 saga, hopefully more good is to come from better understanding this material.

The fact that there is very little information or details on exactly how this material was originally made, should make it clear by now that this material should be taken with a very big grain of salt...

 

[helper800]

That is a pipe dream with current computer models. Data has to be stored in RAM, which cannot be done using super conductivity because the memory cells have to store data and be switched on or off accordingly. And super conductivity for a CPU is not possible either, since transistors have to be made with doped material to function. While there are transistors that operate using super conductivity, they are very sensitive to low level magnetic radiation and for sure not easily integrated in an electronic device, let alone the NM scale of processors.

I did not mean to say that if we had this now it would immediately be put to perfect use. I just mean to say that a room-temperature superconductor with the ability to be used for components would usher in a new leap of technology. I was partially aware of the issue with using superconductor materials for memory but was completely unaware of the issues using such materials with CPUs. Do you have a reference I can read, I am interested.

 

[elforeign]

The fact that there is very little information or details on exactly how this material was originally made, should make it clear by now that this material should be taken with a very big grain of salt...

Right, that's exactly my question, is it being intentionally withheld by the authors? Was it carelessness by the author in documenting the baking process? Or are they dumb and did not document it and then all of a sudden, they happened on this material showing superconductivity and having no way to retrace their steps?

 

[vanadiel007]

Right, that's exactly my question, is it being intentionally withheld by the authors? Was it carelessness by the author in documenting the baking process? Or are they dumb and did not document it and then all of a sudden, they happened on this material showing superconductivity and having no way to retrace their steps?

I am thinking that the idea of making something as elusive as super conducting material in a kitchen sink using a microwave and some sort of random baking attempt just sounds to simple to be true. Research into super conducting material has been done in laboratories for many years.

I am sure that if it was as simple as cooking it up in the sink, it would have been "discovered" long time ago...

 

[vanadiel007]

I did not mean to say that if we had this now it would immediately be put to perfect use. I just mean to say that a room-temperature superconductor with the ability to be used for components would usher in a new leap of technology. I was partially aware of the issue with using superconductor materials for memory but was completely unaware of the issues using such materials with CPUs. Do you have a reference I can read, I am interested.

This is an example of the challenges when it comes to transistors with zero electrical resistance: https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1905/1905.13008.pdf

 

[helper800]

This is an example of the challenges when it comes to transistors with zero electrical resistance: https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1905/1905.13008.pdf

So there could be benefits of a room-temperature superconductor if used in off-chip trace to the chip itself with the superconductor material. Significantly less heat would build up in the same area as the traditional chip which would increase energy efficiency and cooling requirements to a degree. It is also not that computers made with superconductors are impossible to make either, just that the CMOS-based technology of today cannot suddenly replace everything with a room-temperature superconductor material. Doping seems to be a process of adding small amounts of a few different materials in a uniform manner to make a semiconductor more or less conductive depending on the use of the product being made.

Thanks for the reference, I will take a look at it when I have more time to delve into this stuff.

 

[thisisaname]

I hope it works out. I always thought the rush to spike this research was premature and the desire for rapid confirmation was not such a good pathway. I am glad that people are still working on it and hope they put the appropriate amount of efforts into it.

Given how many discoveries have been done by accident I do now wonder if the method of cooking was vague due to them making a mistake in cooking it up and they have no idea what that mistake was.

 

[InvalidError]

Is this a matter of purposely obscuring the process they used for selfish interest? or is it that the authors didn't properly document the baking process and so just happened on a lucky sample that supposedly demonstrated superconductivity?

Assuming the original author really made the stuff, the lack of samples to prove that they really did means they couldn't manufacture any meaningful amount of the stuff themselves either. They may not know the exact process that produced their "good" samples any better than what they described.

 

[NinjaChemist]

In many old posts about technology leaps, I always stated that materials science is the next great leap in non-quantum computing. If we could somehow get a room-temperature superconductor that we can use to make traces and complex components, we would have PCs without cooling being required. We could have CPUs with architectures unbound by thermal issues due to density. Think of CPUs with 16 chiplets and 4 IO dies at current densities that give off less than 5 watts of heat.

The whole point of using semiconductors in processors is it avoids the need to insulate the microscopic conductors. I like your idea to utilize this for ultra-low power chips, but still several breakthroughs away from being able to package something like this together. Maybe a semiconductor that becomes superconductive only when a current passes through.

I want credit on the paper whenever the geniuses figure out how to actually do this.

 

[InvalidError]

This is an example of the challenges when it comes to transistors with zero electrical resistance: https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1905/1905.13008.pdf

Having no DC losses in transistors do you little good when the bulk of losses in modern chips are from leakage current and capacitive switching losses. Switching 1pF worth of wiring and gate capacitance between 0V and 1.2V at 6GHz is 4uW of power. Whatever amount of that energy isn't being dissipated in the transistors themselves will get dissipated in the wiring. If the wiring is superconducting too, then the 4uW will have to be radiated entirely as EMI. There is no miracle work-around for that.

Superconductors are great for DC and resonant circuits, not so much for arbitrary switching at high frequencies.

 

[helper800]

Having no DC losses in transistors do you little good when the bulk of losses in modern chips are from leakage current and capacitive switching losses. Switching 1pF worth of wiring and gate capacitance between 0V and 1.2V at 6GHz is 4uW of power. Whatever amount of that energy isn't being dissipated in the transistors themselves will get dissipated in the wiring. If the wiring is superconducting too, then the 4uW will have to be radiated entirely as EMI. There is no miracle work-around for that.

Superconductors are great for DC and resonant circuits, not so much for arbitrary switching at high frequencies.

Well according to this article switching speeds and power usage are one of the main advantages of superconducting processors:

"Superconducting circuits have long been an attractive option for ultrafast processors. Chilled down to a few degrees above absolute zero, superconducting logic gates can perform operations in picoseconds with less than a microwatt of power. Simple superconducting logic circuits have been shown to operate at speeds of up to 770 gigahertz."

My current level of understanding on these topics proves lackluster still, and will likely remain there for the far future. These topics are very complex and requires more knowledge than I possess to understand beyond the fundamentals.

 

[Juna0811]

Spin required

 

[George³]

This is the last article for lk-99. And have something new about in "X".