[SOLVED] Looking for PC build review before purchase

[RyoxSinfar]

Approximate Purchase Date: Within 24 hours.

Budget Range: ~3,000

System Usage from Most to Least Important: Gaming, surfing web, VR (not sure to what extent) and maybe software development

Are you buying a monitor: No

Parts to Upgrade: Everything in the PC case and the PC case.

Do you need to buy OS: Maybe? Need to check my last purchase info to check for OEM. Probably dual booting a linux distro and Windows 10

Preferred Website(s) for Parts: B&H but not required

Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA

Parts Preferences: No seagate hard drives

Overclocking: No

SLI or Crossfire:No

Your Monitor Resolution: Two monitor configurations (pre-purchased) that will be used independently. One setup with two monitors using 1920x1080 / 144hz . Secondary setup has one monitor with 2560x1440 / 60hz.

Additional Comments: Performance comes first but if I can get the same results/quality with a smaller case I'd be interested in alternate Mobo/Cases. Only stipulation is either an onboard wifi adapter or space for graphics card + wifi adapter card (already have card).

And Most Importantly, Why Are You Upgrading: Better performance and old machine finally keeled over.

Part picker link

 

[tennis2]

Yeah, that's pretty baller. I'm not sure I understand the monitor setup description. Are you gaming on a 1080p or 1440p monitor? What's the refresh rate?

 

[Phaaze88]

Here's my 2 cents - for now:
PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600X 3.8 GHz 6-Core Processor ($204.99 @ B&H)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 Black Edition 42 CFM CPU Cooler ($34.99 @ B&H)
Motherboard: Asus PRIME X570-P ATX AM4 Motherboard ($144.99 @ B&H)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Sport LT 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($148.99 @ B&H)
Storage: Intel 660p Series 1.02 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($124.99 @ B&H)
Storage: Western Digital Gold 6 TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($239.99 @ B&H)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER 8 GB XC GAMING Video Card ($529.99 @ B&H)
Case: be quiet! Dark Base Pro 900 Rev. 2 ATX Full Tower Case ($269.00 @ B&H)
Power Supply: SeaSonic FOCUS Plus Gold 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($104.99 @ B&H)
Total: $1802.92
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-02-05 14:58 EST-0500

Since your highest priority is gaming, there's not much reason to go with a 3900X over a 3600X or 3700X. They're all equally fast, and you'd be paying a good bit extra for cores/threads you may not even use.
I am not familiar with software development, though, but I can't imagine either the 3600X or 3700X NOT being able to handle that.

I didn't change the case option, because that's going to influenced by personal preference, but there were a couple things you weren't very clear on.

Your Monitor Resolution: 1920x1080 dual monitor. Secondary setup is one 2560x1440

Which of the 2 is you main gaming monitor? If the answer is the 1080p screen, then there's very little reason, or gains to be had for that matter, over a 2070 Super.
If it's the 1440p, then I would change that to a 2080 Super.

Also, do the 2 monitors have the same native refresh rates? Monitors of differing refresh rates creates a frame de-sync issue that can cause stuttering in games.

 

[RyoxSinfar]

Yeah, that's pretty baller. I'm not sure I understand the monitor setup description. Are you gaming on a 1080p or 1440p monitor? What's the refresh rate?

Both, depending on the moment. I clarified in my post. The 1080p both are 144hz, the 1440p is 60hz.

 

[RyoxSinfar]

I am not familiar with software development, though, but I can't imagine either the 3600X or 3700X NOT being able to handle that.

Like anything else it'll depend. A slow machine can still code just about anything, its just about how long things take to process and whether it will leverage multithreading. Its nothing as bad as image/video software but there are some surprises.

Also not an immediate plan but I do intend to try out VR on this build.

 

[tennis2]

I'll be honest, I had the same initial impression as Phaaze. ("surely we can do this for under $2,000")

 

[RyoxSinfar]

I'll be honest, I had the same initial impression as Phaaze. ("surely we can do this for under $2,000")

I guess I'm not sure as to what "this" refers to. Perhaps I didn't word my post well, but what are you envisioning that makes you aim for $2K? I don't mind spending less but I also don't mind spending my budget if it is worthwhile.

The recommended build saves about 750$ by changing out CPU and video card, but userbenchmark.com (mind this is my first time using the site, maybe I'm looking at it wrong) shows the 2080-TI with a number roughly 30% better, and logical increments shows a similar improvement when showing framerates for LoL, Fornite, and Witcher 3, with the 2070S not reaching 144 FPS at 1080P for Witcher 3.

The CPU is likely overkill but software in general is still slowly making proper use of multithreading, and I've had an unusual amount of games in recent history that were leveraging the CPU more. Granted this is sometimes from poor optimization on the developer side but if I can buffer myself from that kind of thing it would be nice.

 

[MSYF27]

If you do have the luxury of spending a little more then you can, go for the 2080ti even with the 3600x. Here is a bottleneck calculator for the cpu and gpu (note to read the disclaimer):
https://pc-builds.com/calculator/Ryzen_5_3600/GeForce_RTX_2080_Ti/0U912n8A/16/

Or you can go for the 3700x for the extra headroom on cores/threads , that being said investing on a better cooler will help you get more performance out of Ryzen as it scales better according to its temps.

A 9900k is also a good option if you are sure your tasks wont be core/thread based workloads, but it would limit your upgrade options, unlike with Ryzen which gives you a chance to go 3900x or 3950x or maybe even the 4th gen Ryzen which may come late 2020 (big iffy).

*edit
You also have the option of using PCIE gen4 NVMEs on Ryzen 3rd gen which is not available with Intel CPUs, although I dont know much about software programming if you need fast read and writes, but you have that as an option but it is exclusive to x570 boards. Note that i'm not recommending but just giving you information to consider for your build.

If you do go for the 2080ti maybe budget for a 750W power supply for OC headroom (it self boosts IIRC for NVidia gpus) and a better efficiency curve of power consumption. If someone who is more informed regarding this please do call me out.

 

[tennis2]

I guess I'm not sure as to what "this" refers to. Perhaps I didn't word my post well, but what are you envisioning that makes you aim for $2K? I don't mind spending less but I also don't mind spending my budget if it is worthwhile....etc, etc.

The answers to these questions is (humbly), experience. A few thoughts/statements:

• Although my PC hardware knowledge/learning dates further back, I've been reading PC hardware reviews and articles as well as viewing newegg.com daily sales flyers nearly every day for the past 10 years. That gives me a rough target of what hardware is required to achieve the performance necessary for a given resolution and/or refresh rate, as well as what those parts roughly cost.
• Obviously there's no black and white answer to a given build request. Different games are more/less demanding than others. Your listing of Witcher 3 and LoL are a perfect example of this stark contrast. Witcher 3 is one of the most demanding games by today's standards. LoL can run on a potato.
• In-game quality settings can greatly affect frame rates. I've read a handful of articles comparing the visual quality of "Ultra" and "High" using screenshots (which is way more accurate than you viewing live action) and they've all generally concluded that Ultra settings incur a high performance cost for little/no visual quality improvement. And that's just a general blanket preset. If you dive into per-game settings, there's always some settings that can be lowered to gain FPS with very little visual sacrifice.
  • Also, while visual fidelity can make games more exciting/enthralling/etc/etc, they should be considered the icing on the cake. The underlying game (story, mechanics, etc) still determine whether a game is considered "good/great" by the majority of consumers. Lipstick on a pig.
• Most people go though 2-3 GPUs for every CPU they own. Obviously budget is a big factor in most cases (less so in your case), but through the years, I've come to the realization that, while a CPU may be a drop-in upgrade, it's not nearly as simple/convenient as a GPU upgrade. If you buy on the low end initially, you may end up with a decent upgrade path to a top tier CPU that's supported by your mobo. If you're in the middle, the chances of that upgrade happening are less likely simply because of ROI. The second half of all this is having to remove/reinstall the CPU cooler etc etc. While not incredibly difficult, it's still more work than dropping in a new GPU.
  • Additionally, GPU power/tech increases at a greater rate per year than CPU power/tech. Plain and simple.
  • Computer hardware is a gateway drug. Most of the time, your next hardware purchase will exceed the relative performance level of your current hardware. While "tiers" of say, GPU performance, may bounce around in relative price brackets, because of the ~2-3 year ownership duration of GPUs, most people aren't going to find it compelling enough to replace their existing GPU purchased for $300 with another $300 GPU (especially with the price creep that's been taking place the past few years). Now you're buying a $400 GPU to say you've upgraded far enough for a noticeable improvement. Other factors such as monitor tech can affect this also. >5 years ago, monitors with >60Hz refresh rates were in their infancy, now they're ubiquitous. We've also seen higher resolutions gain in popularity (1440p, 4k). Regardless of game tech, those factors alone drive up hardware requirements.
  • Since your budget is high, consider if you'd built last generation with a similar budget. You'd own a Ryzen 2700X or Intel i7-8700K and a GTX1080Ti were pretty much the best you could buy. Today your system now includes 50% more cores (if you can use them) with a higher IPC, and you've now got Ray Tracing (as well as other features). In a couple months Nvidia will release their 7nm RTX3xxx series with further improved general and ray tracing performance. Not to say that you should perpetually wait for "the next generation", but that sitting on the top of the stack makes those big dollar purchases hurt a bit more when you see new/better things come out because higher cost hardware generally has a longer ROI period. (I'll just buy this $700 GPU and keep it twice as long).

TL; DR - Something along the lines of what Phaaze mentioned (RTX2070 Super) still gets you VERY good 1080p high refresh rate gaming or more than maxing out your 1440p monitor. If you want the 3900X, go for it. I'm also not a big fans of QLC SSDs like the Intel 660p or Crucial P1 for boot/OS drives, so that's a worthwhile upgrade.

 

[GarrettL]

If you have this large of a budget to work with then I'd like to suggest getting a good quality IPS 1440p 140Hz monitor.

Why invest this much into your rig without really seeing what it is capable of?

I recently put together a 3800x and Asus TUF x570 with a 2070S. Gaming is buttery smooth with an Asus PG279Q and the colors are fantastic. The G-Sync is amazing, the reviews don't lie.


The build below is a monster and you still have $200 to play around with.

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 3800X 3.9 GHz 8-Core Processor ($339.98 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 82.5 CFM CPU Cooler ($89.95 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Gigabyte X570 AORUS ULTRA ATX AM4 Motherboard ($290.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill Trident Z Neo 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 Memory ($114.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 970 Evo 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($168.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Crucial P1 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($112.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: Asus GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER 8 GB Turbo EVO Video Card ($689.00 @ Amazon)
Case: Fractal Design Meshify C ATX Mid Tower Case ($98.99 @ Walmart)
Power Supply: SeaSonic FOCUS Plus Platinum 750 W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($134.99 @ B&H)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit ($139.99 @ Other World Computing)
Monitor: Asus PG279Q ROG Swift 27.0" 2560x1440 165 Hz Monitor ($624.99 @ B&H)
Total: $2805.85
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-02-06 11:38 EST-0500

 

[Hellfire13]

A better processor can last you longer ofcourse...

PCPartPicker Part List

Type|Item|Price
:----|:----|:----
CPU | AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 3.6 GHz 8-Core Processor | $309.99 @ Amazon
CPU Cooler | Scythe Mugen 5 Rev. B 51.17 CFM CPU Cooler | $62.14 @ Amazon
Motherboard | Asus TUF GAMING X570-PLUS (WI-FI) ATX AM4 Motherboard | $189.98 @ Amazon
Memory | G.Skill Ripjaws V 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 Memory | $84.99 @ Amazon
Storage | HP EX920 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive | $129.94 @ Amazon
Video Card | EVGA GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER 8 GB BLACK GAMING Video Card | $663.98 @ Newegg
Case | Phanteks ECLIPSE P350X ATX Mid Tower Case | $59.99 @ Newegg
Power Supply | SeaSonic FOCUS Plus Gold 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply | $114.99 @ B&H
| Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts |
| Total (before mail-in rebates) | $1656.00
| Mail-in rebates | -$40.00
| Total | $1616.00
| Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-02-06 11:42 EST-0500 |

 

[tennis2]

For reference. Here's my idea. It contains most of your original build concept, except the GPU choice and "only" a 1TB SSD.
PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 3.8 GHz 12-Core Processor ($469.99 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: NZXT Kraken X62 Rev 2 98.17 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($139.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: MSI MPG X570 GAMING EDGE WIFI ATX AM4 Motherboard ($189.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill Flare X 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($139.46 @ Amazon)
Storage: Corsair MP600 Force Series Gen4 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($209.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Western Digital Blue 6 TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($139.88 @ Amazon)
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER 8 GB WINDFORCE OC 3X Video Card ($499.99 @ Amazon)
Case: Fractal Design Meshify C ATX Mid Tower Case ($108.41 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: Phanteks Revolt Pro 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($129.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $2027.69
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-02-06 12:10 EST-0500

HA! Look at that. Almost exactly $2,000!!!! Just like I initially mentioned. (I swear I didn't look at the price till I copied the part list here).
Some items (such as the SSD) are admittedly a bit more "primo" than what most people will recommend, but hey, we're not speccing out a $1,000 machine here.
Also, you'll probably end up moving the stock 120mm front intake fan to the bottom since the front rad is airflow restrictive and you'll want to get some unrestricted fresh air to the GPU.

 

[King_V]

I recently put together a 3800x and Asus TUF x570 with a 2070S. Gaming is buttery smooth with an Asus PG279Q and the colors are fantastic. The G-Sync is amazing, the reviews don't lie.

Monitor: Asus PG279Q ROG Swift 27.0" 2560x1440 165 Hz Monitor ($624.99 @ B&H)

My only objection to this is that the "Gsync tax" is no longer necessary. With Nvidia's 10-, 16-, and 20- series cards all supporting FreeSync now, there's no need to pay a premium for GSync over an otherwise equal quality FreeSync monitor.

 

[tennis2]

^ Yeah. "Variable Refresh Rate" is amazing.

 

[GarrettL]

My only objection to this is that the "Gsync tax" is no longer necessary. With Nvidia's 10-, 16-, and 20- series cards all supporting FreeSync now, there's no need to pay a premium for GSync over an otherwise equal quality FreeSync monitor.

To a degree, it depends and results may vary. I'm glad Nvidia is not pushing G-Sync and the extra $100 it usually costs.

Using my current build I had an AoC 1080p 24" with Freesync. The Asus PG279Q is superior in G-Sync performance and is quite noticeable.

Hopefully this will improve in the future.

 

[King_V]

To a degree, it depends and results may vary.

Well, I can't speak to all monitors, but I suspect the only FreeSync monitors that would have trouble would be really budget-end models that would've had problems with FreeSync even on an AMD card.

As someone who's been using a GTX 1080 on a not-on-Nvidia's-approved-list for about 2 years, I can say I've had no trouble.

 

[tennis2]

Using my current build I had an AoC 1080p 24" with Freesync. The Asus PG279Q is superior in G-Sync performance and is quite noticeable.

The PG279Q is a 1440p, 165Hz, IPS, with 350 cdm brightness. You didn't provide the model number of your AOC, but you're likely comparing apples and oranges here..... You're comparing the quality of two potentially very different PANELS, not GSync vs FreeSync.
Be fair.

Regardless, I don't think this discussion needs to muck up this thread.

 

[GarrettL]

The Freesync AoC monitor.

https://www.displayninja.com/aoc-g2590fx-review/