Looking for the best AM4 X370 motherboard

[Petosiris]

Hi,

I'm searching online for a new motherboard, AMD this time, but it's not easy to find the best - assuming such a board exists. I want the top of the line, with all the latest technology and features. Quality and premium parts are important, price is not important. I'll buy the Ryzen 7 1800X and try to overclock it to 5 GHz, so I need top notch capasitors and other premium parts made for OC. I'm also more interested in support for water cooling than, say, bling-bling like disco lights in rainbow colors, and 3D printing.

So, I set out to find a AM4 mb with X370 chipset and started with comparing the only two available ASUS candidates:

https://www.asus.com/Product-Compare/?products=s7csF4UqmJykbmtW,ghtVfXqMRP7gHFkj&b=0

However, these seem to be in a medium/low end of the enthusiast segment and I really want something better. For instance, I'd like at least 2xPCIe x16 (x16, x16).

All the different series offered don't make it any easier to navigate through the sites. I mean, I get that ASUS ROG is a series for gamers, but what's the difference between the sub series in Maximus, for instance? I'm confused. Same with other mb manufactorers - all of them have lots of different series.

Do you know how the other MB manufatorers (Asrock, MSI, Gigabyte), do compared to the above from ASUS?

Thank you!

 

[Rhinofart]

I don't know of any AM4 boards that are coming with 2 x PCIe x16 slots. Besides, there isn't much difference at all between an x8 and x16 slot for GPU performance anyways. You'll have to do a bunch of research on what motherboards to use as Ryzen products aren't out yet. But historically I have always found that the Asus boards perform top notch, and have owned several generations of the Crosshair boards. The ROG boards generally have better PWM circuits, and better caps, and all the little differences and nuances between the different models is annoying as heck. Pick one of those 2 boards, and I'm pretty darn sure you'll be happy as a clam.

 

[boosted1g]

You are getting too ahead of yourself here and trying to jump before you can walk.

Give it time for Ryzen to come out, then we can benchmark the CPUs, test the motherbaords and actually determine what is good and if Ryzen is even what it is hyped up to be.

You cant possibly figure out what the best is yet when we hae nothing concrete to make that judgement on yet.

 

[Petosiris]

Thanks for answering. Glad it isn't just me who are little annoyed by the jungle of models. If they could only have a label that said "FLAGSHIP" or something on the top line ... or have a "show only differences" feature in the comparison matrix ... it'd help. But I have time to do research and read reviews before deciding what to buy. I don't want to rush out and buy something and regret it a week later.

I found this one at Gigabyte's site, but I don't know how "K7" is rated amongst their gaming boards:

http://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-AX370-Gaming-K7-rev-10#kf

For reference, these are the ASUS candidates:

https://www.asus.com/global/Motherboards/ROG-CROSSHAIR-VI-HERO/
https://www.asus.com/global/Motherboards/PRIME-X370-PRO/

Edit: As I'm unfamiliar with most of the mb series from different manufactorers, any short-to-the-point education on this is welcome.

 

[Rhinofart]

The little comparison check mark between the 2 asus boards it pretty handy. Just add them both to comparison list, and have at it.

 

[Petosiris]

The little comparison check mark between the 2 asus boards it pretty handy. Just add them both to comparison list, and have at it.

Yeah, I did that. Still, I'd like a "hide identical features" or "only show the differences" option when comparing two or more motherboards.

 

[Rhinofart]

I myself will be going for the x370 Pro because I'm a sucker for the LED lighting stuff. ;0)

 

[Petosiris]

I don't mind lights and other "bling-bling" as long as it's not there instead of more important things.

 

[TJ Hooker]

However, these seem to be in a medium/low end of the enthusiast segment and I really want something better. For instance, I'd like at least 2xPCIe x16 (x16, x16).

The X370 chipset only has 24 PCIe 3.0 lanes, so...

 

[Petosiris]

Yeah, nothing that can't be fixed by adding a 3rd party chip to the motherboard.

 

[TJ Hooker]

But PLX switches don't actually add any bandwidth. So you even if you use a switch, your BW to the CPU remains the same. Seeing as how x8/x8 is already enough to run SLI, I don't know what benefit you get from the switch. Unless you're trying to run 3/4 way SLI, which isn't supported on Nvidia's latest GPUs and isn't a very good idea anyway.

 

[Petosiris]

Well, I want to have the option to add another graphic card later. So room to grow, basically. It's just something I always look for but if it isn't available then I'll settle with a future upgrade path of x8+x8. About which graphic card I'm aiming for, a high-end Vega seems most likely ATM. I'll wait some months for a Vega dual GPU card to arrive.

Edit: Found a couple of mb's on MSI's site, which I'm reading about now:

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/X370-XPOWER-GAMING-TITANIUM.html
https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/X370-GAMING-PRO-CARBON.html

 

[TJ Hooker]

Well, I want to have the option to add another graphic card later. So room to grow, basically. It's just something I always look for but if it isn't available then I'll settle with a future upgrade path of x8+x8. About which graphic card I'm aiming for, a high-end Vega seems most likely ATM. I'll wait some months for a Vega dual GPU card to arrive.

Edit: Found a couple of mb's on MSI's site, which I'm reading about now:

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/X370-XPOWER-GAMING-TITANIUM.html
https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/X370-GAMING-PRO-CARBON.html

Like I said, PLX switches (that add more PCIe lanes) don't actually increase total bandwidth. They do increase the number of lanes that a device (i.e. GPU) thinks it has though. For gaming, the only real benefit is tricking Nvidia GPUs into thinking they have at least 8 PCIe lanes (which is required for SLI). Based on the use case you've described, I really don't think you'd see any benefit from a mobo that lets you do x16/x16 through a switch. If you start with one GPU, you'll have "room to grow" regardless. The performance difference between PCIe 3.0 x8 vs x16 is minimal anyway.

Both the mobos you linked only support x8/x8 with dual GPUs.

 

[Petosiris]

Like I said, PLX switches (that add more PCIe lanes) don't actually increase total bandwidth. They do increase the number of lanes that a device (i.e. GPU) thinks it has though. For gaming, the only real benefit is tricking Nvidia GPUs into thinking they have at least 8 PCIe lanes (which is required for SLI).

Thanks for the information.

Based on the use case you've described, I really don't think you'd see any benefit from a mobo that lets you do x16/x16 through a switch. If you start with one GPU, you'll have "room to grow" regardless. The performance difference between PCIe 3.0 x8 vs x16 is minimal anyway.

Yes, you're right about that. Since my graphic card probably will be dual-GPU I have more time before I need to replace it or add another one in Crossfire anyway, and by then PCIe 4.0 has arrived.

Both the mobos you linked only support x8/x8 with dual GPUs.

I know. I listed them because they're among the few mb's I've found - so far. There aren't many alternatives available yet.

 

[Petosiris]

I'm still comparing X370 motherboards but think I've narrowed it down to two or three candidates:

In prioritized order:

1. MSI X370 Xpower Gaming Titanium: https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/X370-XPOWER-GAMING-TITANIUM.html

This mb seems to be the most feature rich and even has a U.2 connector.

2. ASUS ROG Crosshair VI Hero: https://www.asus.com/global/Motherboards/ROG-CROSSHAIR-VI-HERO/

The Asus mb is a good candidate mainly because I've owned many Asus mb's before and like them, plus there's nothing directly negative to say about this mb. Also, it has many SATA and USB ports.

3. Asrock Fatal1ty X370 Pro Gaming: http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/Fatal1ty%20X370%20Professional%20Gaming/index.us.asp

The Asrock mb has nice features in 16 power phase, 60A choke, and lots of network features, but miss the latest M.2 type 22110.


However, I'm not completely satisfied with any of them and will probably wait and see for more motherboards to show up in the following weeks and months. One thing I'd love is water cooling on the power electronics. I also want to see how these motherboards perform in overclocking.

 

[wilsonkf]

PLX will be good if the bottleneck is in between two graphic cards. Without PLX two graphic cards communicate with each on 8 lanes. With PLX they have 16 lanes.

However they will share the 16 lanes when they need to communicate with CPU. While PLX adds more latency, the lane sharing will be more flexible.

Which means that, for CF or SLI, PLX will be good, since the graphic cards share a lot of data through pcie. (you really need two or even three fastest graphic cards now to actually feel slightly difference, but then let's consider "future proof"...). for GPU compute, it depends on the situation.

 

[Petosiris]

I'll most probably going to buy a graphic card with two GPUs anyway, the RX Vega x2, so it won't be a problem for a long time - if at all.

About motherboards - After more reading online, I see that the BIOSes are immature on most MBs, as is the Ryzen CPU itself to an extent. BIOSes will be updated, regarding temp readings & management, memory support, and XFR handling vs overclocking, but it's more concerning that the CPU is immature when it comes to speed and XFR, so I may just wait until things gets better on the MB front and perhaps also wait for Ryzen 2.

There's also the issue with installing Windows 7 on a MB without a PS/2 connector for KB/Mouse, so I may have to prioritize differently among the candidates because of this.

 

[JasonGriffis]

If you are truly after pure overclocking potential and performance, the AM4 mobo with the most power phases and currently holds the current world record for overclocking is the Asus Hero Crosshair 6. There is a good reason all other motherboards sold out on Amazon only after the Asus x370 chipset boards were sold out. 12 power phases = 2 more than every other high-end board out a the moment.

As SR-71 has posted many times, the Asus Hero boards are the best bang for the buck for performance overclocking. Their exclusive use of Japanese capacitors are the real deal.

Hope this helps.

 

[Petosiris]

Yes, the Asus Hero Crosshair VI is one of my top candidates but I haven't decided yet.

I have a question to @TJ Hooker and/or @wilsonkf about PCIe lanes:

As I understand it, the Intel X99 platform has 44 PICe lanes (the chipset 8) but motherboard manufactorers manage to make MBs* with 4x16x PCIe anyway. How is that possible when we're talking about true four-way (64 lanes) graphics and not PLX? And why can't they do the same thing with the AMD X370 platform? This is confusing ...

* = example: https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/X99E_WSUSB_31/specifications/

 

[TJ Hooker]

That mobo uses a PLX chip to get quad PCIe x16.

 

[Petosiris]

I don't understand. How can it do Quad (x16, x16, x16, x16) = 64 lanes, with only 44 lanes available? Even if we add the 8 lanes in the chipset, the total lanes are only 52.

 

[TJ Hooker]

The CPU provides 40 lanes (assuming you have one of the higher tier LGA 2011 CPUs). That mobo has dual PLX chips that I assume 16 lanes each (although one of them may only add 8, I didn't find info of which specific PLX chip they are or how they're configured). So that gets you to 64 or 72 lanes.

Note that the extra lanes added by PLX only increase effective bandwidth between GPUs. The total number of lanes/bandwidth to the CPU stays the same.

 

[Petosiris]

But you said above in this thread that PLX doesn't add bandwidth, only what a device thinks it has ... so that, for instance, SLI could work.

Like I said, PLX switches (that add more PCIe lanes) don't actually increase total bandwidth. They do increase the number of lanes that a device (i.e. GPU) thinks it has though. For gaming, the only real benefit is tricking Nvidia GPUs into thinking they have at least 8 PCIe lanes (which is required for SLI).

So I interpreted that as that the total amount of lanes didn't increase, just fooled the GPU to believe they were available. Sort of like a router.

This lane debate started with that I said I wanted 2 x16 (x16/x16) ... I get that it won't increase the bandwidth to the CPU, but now I learn that a PLX chip will indeed increase the bandwidth to the GPU, which is what I was after in the first place.

 

[TJ Hooker]

Yeah, I made the mistake of not realizing that bandwidth between two devices (i.e. GPUs) was increased, even though bandwidth between GPU(s) and the CPU stays the same. I don't know how much GPU-GPU traffic there is compared to GPU-CPU traffic when it comes to SLI. I would guess not as much, given that I thought that's what the SLI bridge is for, but maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Petosiris]

Well, I've decided to wait anyway. The current Ryzen platform has too many child deseases* that needs to be ironed out. So I'll take a look at the HEDT platform with B2 stepping rumored to arrive "soon" and see if it's better for me.

* =

1. Memory timings
2. Memory in 4 banks
3. High Frequency memory
4. CCX -> CCX latency
5. Immature BIOS
6. Temp reporting on X models
7. Overclocking potential
8. XFR only up 100-200 MHz
9. Single core performance