Looking to upgrade and need an advice of this pre-build gaming pc

[Mark_jason]

Case and PSU: Corsair 200R Black mid case 210x430x497 & Antec TPC-750 Gold PSU.

CPU and Mobo: i7-6700K CPU @ 4GHz & ASRock Fata1ty Z170 Gaming K4 mbrd - updated bios.

Coolermaster Nepton 240M CPU Water CPU cooler.

RAM, SSD and HDD: Corsair Vengeance 2x8GB 3000 DDR4 ram, 256 GB Transcend SSD & 750GB HDD.

Monitor and GPU: AOC 24" FHD 1ms Gaming monitor & MSI GTX970 4GB GPU, LG Bluray writer.

Windows 7Pro 64bit upgraded to windows 10Pro on 17April.

Win 10 Performance 8.5,8.5,8.7,9.9,8.2 (without OC)

Main use: gaming (full HD, not 4K for now, if I need to go 4K I will need to add another 970 I guess?) and video editing.

 

[Flyfisherman]

Get a cheaper yet a better graphics/watt card and perhaps that is an AMD graphic card on the market.
Thou You will save a lot of money and this is a good card.

Now, can You wait until summer when AMD 490X will be released?
If Not, I will strongly suggest to buy an extra GTX 960 in SLI.
The first and foremost card should be in slot nr. one, the second card there after.

Remember that the worst card will be in charge, but when it comes to SLI - the card which is slower will set all the timings, frequencies and what so ever.

Best Regards, from Sweden

 

[Mark_jason]

Thanks Flyfisherman, you mean I will need to add another gtx 970 in SLI?

Well it's not I can't wait, but when that card comes out ofcourse it will be expensive, so have to wait for some months so it gets cheaper (I'm not the type of peson that likes to buys something when it first releases, I can wait till it gets cheaper).

About AMD cards, many tests show that GTX show better benchmarks plus they consume less power than AMD cards.

On top of that, I think the pc with that specs for $1600 (about $1200 USD) is a bargain.

Still should listen to advices though 😀

 

[genthug]

Machine looks lovely, although I'm slightly confused as to why you don't just go for a straight TB HDD? Won't be much extra cost seeing as hard disk space if short money these days.
I will say that if you're even considering upgrading to 4k, the 970 is a no go. Not enough VRam. Take a look at this. Granted, this is more of an AA vs no AA article, but it does show ultra without AA enabled--amount of VRam required. These are on todays games. You can see that clearly some are better optimized than others. But don't bank on things being ultra optimized. In some games, it's a fairly large spike, in others not so much. But again, don't count on everything being ultra optimized. And the fact that a 970 only has 3.5GB of VRam instead of the advertised 4 hinders you even further.

If you want this build to last, don't go save money on a card now, cause you're just gonna end up buying a new one sooner. If you get the AMD equivalent card, you'll pay the same price. That being said, I'm a fan of Radeon due to their increased VRam amounts. You won't need the 8gb that a 390(x) gives you right now, but we don't know what the future holds, and with some AAA games currently using upwards of 4gb on max settings, I (personally) would prefer the 390 or 390x. The downfall to that is that at peak (if some applications aren't utilizing the GPU well) the cards can chew up to ~350W.

Don't get SLI'd 960s. If you're gonna do that, just wait for Pascal and drop another $100 or so on a better card than the SLI config will get you.

Reiterating an above question: Can you wait for Polaris or Pascal? And, how much are you willing to put into your GPU for this build? There have only been rumors/speculations on price points, but it seems like Pascal's price points are likely going to replace the 980/980ti range on release. Are you willing to pay $450-500+ for a GPU?

 

[genthug]

Thanks Flyfisherman, you mean I will need to add another gtx 970 in SLI?

Well it's not I can't wait, but when that card comes out ofcourse it will be expensive, so have to wait for some months so it gets cheaper (I'm not the type of peson that likes to buys something when it first releases, I can wait till it gets cheaper).

About AMD cards, many tests show that GTX show better benchmarks plus they consume less power than AMD cards.

On top of that, I think the pc with that specs for $1600 (about $1200 USD) is a bargain.

Still should listen to advices though 😀

You will need another one in SLI fairly quickly (considering how often you would want to replace a gfx card). They're fine for now, might not be in 2 years.

...I was gonna say more but the majority of the rest of your post is actually addressed in the above.

Yeah it's a bargain, but make it yourself. Dump that other $400 into that new Pascal dude. You don't want to buy things on release, but you're willing to pay someone $400 for something that takes an hour-hour and a half to set up?

 

[Flyfisherman]

I will say: I mostly agree with 'genthug' and he/she is all right.
Perhaps You should wait a little bit to the summer or otherwise it is what I said previous, 970+960 card will do it, but then again, never a SLI nor a Crossfire will do it better in any hard core game than a single good graphics card.. period.

Best Regards from Sweden

 

[Mark_jason]

Machine looks lovely, although I'm slightly confused as to why you don't just go for a straight TB HDD? Won't be much extra cost seeing as hard disk space if short money these days.
I will say that if you're even considering upgrading to 4k, the 970 is a no go. Not enough VRam. Take a look at this. Granted, this is more of an AA vs no AA article, but it does show ultra without AA enabled--amount of VRam required. These are on todays games. You can see that clearly some are better optimized than others. But don't bank on things being ultra optimized. In some games, it's a fairly large spike, in others not so much. But again, don't count on everything being ultra optimized. And the fact that a 970 only has 3.5GB of VRam instead of the advertised 4 hinders you even further.

If you want this build to last, don't go save money on a card now, cause you're just gonna end up buying a new one sooner. If you get the AMD equivalent card, you'll pay the same price. That being said, I'm a fan of Radeon due to their increased VRam amounts. You won't need the 8gb that a 390(x) gives you right now, but we don't know what the future holds, and with some AAA games currently using upwards of 4gb on max settings, I (personally) would prefer the 390 or 390x. The downfall to that is that at peak (if some applications aren't utilizing the GPU well) the cards can chew up to ~350W.

Don't get SLI'd 960s. If you're gonna do that, just wait for Pascal and drop another $100 or so on a better card than the SLI config will get you.

Reiterating an above question: Can you wait for Polaris or Pascal? And, how much are you willing to put into your GPU for this build? There have only been rumors/speculations on price points, but it seems like Pascal's price points are likely going to replace the 980/980ti range on release. Are you willing to pay $450-500+ for a GPU?

Thanks so much for that info.
About the HDD, that HDD comes with the build, the guy didn't go for 1TB for some reason.
Yeah I just read about the VRAM issue with gtx 970, so you think 970 is not enough only for 4K or even for full hd since the monitor comes with the pc is full hd not 4k?

What do you mean by this: "The downfall to that is that at peak (if some applications aren't utilizing the GPU well) the cards can chew up to ~350W"?

Considering the AMD cards, don't tests show that gtx 970 beats the 390 and 390x despite of the AMD's huge VRAM? plus AMD cards are more power hungry than GTX's?

I won't go with 960 in SLI because the build already comes with 970 not 960 but I think the Fisherman thought the build comes with a 960 so he mentioned 960 in SLI.

I'm willing to pay $450-500+ for a graphics card, but the problem is I'm in Australia, and being in Australia means when a graphics card comes out it will be $900 - 1000 (if not $1000+) easy.

 

[Mark_jason]

Thanks Flyfisherman, you mean I will need to add another gtx 970 in SLI?

Well it's not I can't wait, but when that card comes out ofcourse it will be expensive, so have to wait for some months so it gets cheaper (I'm not the type of peson that likes to buys something when it first releases, I can wait till it gets cheaper).

About AMD cards, many tests show that GTX show better benchmarks plus they consume less power than AMD cards.

On top of that, I think the pc with that specs for $1600 (about $1200 USD) is a bargain.

Still should listen to advices though 😀

You will need another one in SLI fairly quickly (considering how often you would want to replace a gfx card). They're fine for now, might not be in 2 years.

...I was gonna say more but the majority of the rest of your post is actually addressed in the above.

Yeah it's a bargain, but make it yourself. Dump that other $400 into that new Pascal dude. You don't want to buy things on release, but you're willing to pay someone $400 for something that takes an hour-hour and a half to set up?

I forgot to mention in my first reply about what you said : AA and not AA in games. I want to play games like: GTA V, watch dogs, CODs and Battlefields and car racing games (need for speed, .. etc), so again, what you mentioned about AA and no AA play role in those games when it comes to the card?

Not sure if you live in Aus or USA but here in Aus, the CPU (4790k or 6700k), card (970) and PSU (750 w gold) cost no less than $1000, so I agree with you about I should do it myself, but the thing is parts are very expensive here and ofcourse should not go lower for future proof for some years (at least 2).

 

[Mark_jason]

I will say: I mostly agree with 'genthug' and he/she is all right.
Perhaps You should wait a little bit to the summer or otherwise it is what I said previous, 970+960 card will do it, but then again, never a SLI nor a Crossfire will do it better in any hard core game than a single good graphics card.. period.

Best Regards from Sweden


I thought to SLI: both cards should be same, like 2 970s or 2 960s, not one 970 and one 960? I could be wrong.

 

[Flyfisherman]

Yes of course, both card in a SLI configuration will be the beast, but remember: The maximum memory it can be used is that for the best card.
It means that if you have one card of 4GB memory, the next card with 2GB of memory - you still only have 4GB of memory, and the lower frequencies of the card that got in the lower slot.
Yes, so it works.

 

[genthug]

Ahhhh. Yeah. Australia is god awful for part pricing.

The 970 will absolutely be fine for 1080p for the moment, but even then some games are showing close to the 3.5 mark or over the 3.5 mark right now, which worries me for the future.

The upvote I give to Radeon is due to VRam amounts. The downvote (I guess I misused downfall there...) is that their cards are the most power hungry bastards on the market.

As for tests: team green gets more games to optimize them. Depending on the game, one will do better, one will do worse. It's typically slanted in NVidias direction, although the tests for equally priced cards don't really show anything conclusive. So, it really depends, do you care more about 100W and 5 FPS, or literally twice as much VRam? Imo, VRam. Considering we're nearing the 4g mark, there's gonna be bottlenecking in 9xx GPUs due to lack of sufficient VRam.

Imo AA is kind of a waste that you don't really see unless you look for it. I usually just turn on FXAA for a slightly noticeable change and leave it at that. The AA that they were using was the ridiculous-oh-my-god-I'm-not-doing-that type of AA. The article was more for just pure Ultra reference VRam usage. Put it this way: Titans and 980tis have issues running GTA at ultra with AA turned on. It's ridiculous.

So, to clarify... You're buying an out-of-country build and having it shipped there? Is that why it's inexpensive? Or is the $1200 price tag you put on it the price tag of the parts in your country?

As for the above, no, that is incorrect. The settings of the config go off of the worse card. I.e. two cards: one overclocked, 4g VRam, another one non-overclocked, 2g VRam. Your GPU settings will run off of 2g VRam, with the GPUs running at their non-overclocked core and memory clocks. You'll only have 2g of VRam, rendering your 4g card useless. The other thing I'll mention is that not everything is able to be SLI-d/xfired together. Check with NVidia or AMD to see which cards are compatible with which, not everything is. Typically, the only way to SLI is with the exact same card (doesn't have to be same seller) but it has to be the exact same base card.

 

[Mark_jason]

Ahhhh. Yeah. Australia is god awful for part pricing.

The 970 will absolutely be fine for 1080p for the moment, but even then some games are showing close to the 3.5 mark or over the 3.5 mark right now, which worries me for the future.

The upvote I give to Radeon is due to VRam amounts. The downvote (I guess I misused downfall there...) is that their cards are the most power hungry bastards on the market.

As for tests: team green gets more games to optimize them. Depending on the game, one will do better, one will do worse. It's typically slanted in NVidias direction, although the tests for equally priced cards don't really show anything conclusive. So, it really depends, do you care more about 100W and 5 FPS, or literally twice as much VRam? Imo, VRam. Considering we're nearing the 4g mark, there's gonna be bottlenecking in 9xx GPUs due to lack of sufficient VRam.

Imo AA is kind of a waste that you don't really see unless you look for it. I usually just turn on FXAA for a slightly noticeable change and leave it at that. The AA that they were using was the ridiculous-oh-my-god-I'm-not-doing-that type of AA. The article was more for just pure Ultra reference VRam usage. Put it this way: Titans and 980tis have issues running GTA at ultra with AA turned on. It's ridiculous.

So, to clarify... You're buying an out-of-country build and having it shipped there? Is that why it's inexpensive? Or is the $1200 price tag you put on it the price tag of the parts in your country?

As for the above, no, that is incorrect. The settings of the config go off of the worse card. I.e. two cards: one overclocked, 4g VRam, another one non-overclocked, 2g VRam. Your GPU settings will run off of 2g VRam, with the GPUs running at their non-overclocked core and memory clocks. You'll only have 2g of VRam, rendering your 4g card useless.

That is what I've found, it is really confusing, whhther to get card with more vram and not care about power or with less vram but more power efficient, more confusing for future proof too.

Wow, so even 980ti and titan are useless for the AA turned on, surprising.

No, the pc is in Australia and the price ($1600 AUD) is roughly about $1200 USD, so basically I just coverted $1600 into USD dollars.

Now, its more clearer about SLI and crossfire but still if use both cards of the same card then you will see both VRAMs of both cards added up, right?

 

[genthug]

For some games, yeah. But, 4-8x MSAA is absolutely ridiculous. Stick to FXAA you'll be fine, or just play with the game's settings a bit.

As for power, it varies on how expensive power is in your area, but averages in the US see a difference of maybe $10-20 a year in power costs between the two. And with a good build, you should be overdoing your PSU a bit anyways to give yourself headroom for overclocks, or just for general safeness.

As a follow up to that then--how much would that build cost you to just get parts? Cause by USD, that's actually a good price. Like, a close-to-DIY price. Still not a fan of the 970 for the future, but right now it'll do you well.

Nope, each card needs to do it's own rendering. They work in tandem to increase the power of the cards, but each card still needs to come up with the VRam in order individually render the image. So, you have say 2 970s. You still have 3.5g VRam.

 

[Mark_jason]

For some games, yeah. But, 4-8x MSAA is absolutely ridiculous. Stick to FXAA you'll be fine, or just play with the game's settings a bit.

As for power, it varies on how expensive power is in your area, but averages in the US see a difference of maybe $10-20 a year in power costs between the two. And with a good build, you should be overdoing your PSU a bit anyways to give yourself headroom for overclocks, or just for general safeness.

As a follow up to that then--how much would that build cost you to just get parts? Cause by USD, that's actually a good price. Like, a close-to-DIY price. Still not a fan of the 970 for the future, but right now it'll do you well.

Nope, each card needs to do it's own rendering. They work in tandem to increase the power of the cards, but each card still needs to come up with the VRam in order individually render the image. So, you have say 2 970s. You still have 3.5g VRam.

For the power, just checked a bill, $0.28 / kw, not sure by how much this will affect the AMD card, ofcourse won't game 27/7 but maybe a total of 12 - 15 h/ week, as it will the main pc for use.

How much it will cost to build it (here are roughly prices):

Cpu: 6700k around $450 (from gumtree, new and sealed), around $480 from ebay, new and sealed.
4790k: $450 - $500.
GPU: depends on which one, but wheather it is 970, 390 or 390x, not less than $450.
Mobo: that specific mobo, just checked its price , around $200 but I guess any gaming mobo for overclocking in the $130 - $150 will do the job.
Monitor: that specific one is about $250 new.
PSU: it is gold rated so it's not less than $150.
SSD: maybe about $120 - 150.
HDD: $40 - 50.
case: could be $100, around that price.
Basic wireless keyboard and mouse: around $80 - $100.
windoes:: don't need to buy as I got a copy from uni.

Remember those are AUS prices, to get the USD prices, divide them by about 1.31 ($ AUD has been about 0.76 - 0.77 of $USD), but in Aus you won't get cheaper than those prices, another idea is to buy from Amazon or newegg, but have to keep in mind 2 things:

1- parts price (after converting to $AUD) must not exceed $1000 (AUD), otherwise AUS customs will charge fees.
2- Most of the time, after converting to $AUD and with the handling fees and shipping, prices will be very close to AUS prices, if not more.

If the GPUs don't add up the VRAM, what is the point of SLI then?

If you think I shouldn't get that build, can you recommend the required good parts?

 

[Flyfisherman]

Well, I can tell You this:
My rig:

Chassi: Antec P193 V3 Chassi fans: 1 st. 200mm sidefan, 2 st. 140mm, 3st. 120mm
PSU: Corsair HX 750W Modulärt
Mobo: Asus Z97-Deluxe
CPU: Intel core i7 4790K @4600MHz
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH C14 2st. 140mm fans
Memory: G.Skill Ares F3-2133C10D-16GAB 16GB 2133MHZ Cl 10
SSD/HDD: Intel SSD 520 180GB (system i manly), Samsung SSD 850 Pro 1TB (program) + 4 st hdd (storing and backup).
Graphicps Card: Asus Radeon R9 290 Direct CU II
Monitor (2st.): BenQ G2420HDB 24"and BenQ G2222HDL 22"
O/S: Windows 10 Pro

 

[Mark_jason]

Well, I can tell You this:
My rig:

Chassi: Antec P193 V3 Chassi fans: 1 st. 200mm sidefan, 2 st. 140mm, 3st. 120mm
PSU: Corsair HX 750W Modulärt
Mobo: Asus Z97-Deluxe
CPU: Intel core i7 4790K @4600MHz
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH C14 2st. 140mm fans
Memory: G.Skill Ares F3-2133C10D-16GAB 16GB 2133MHZ Cl 10
SSD/HDD: Intel SSD 520 180GB (system i manly), Samsung SSD 850 Pro 1TB (program) + 4 st hdd (storing and backup).
Graphicps Card: Asus Radeon R9 290 Direct CU II
Monitor (2st.): BenQ G2420HDB 24"and BenQ G2222HDL 22"
O/S: Windows 10 Pro

Love the CPU, how well are you going with it?

 

[Flyfisherman]

Love the CPU, how well are you going with it?

Oh very well. I Can tell You: It is by far the easiest CPU to overclock after the Intel 2600K.
It is amazing and easy to cool., Yes I love it!

Ps. Don't go for the 4770K - poor cooling and TIM betewenn the chip and top cooling plate.
4790K has from the beginning 3800MHz and 4200MHz in Turbo charge.
To go from 4200 to 4600MHz was so easy, and I even tried do go for 4800HMz with just 0.02V increase, but after a while I settle down to 4,6GHz.

Now, my professor very seldom uses more than 1-1.8GHz since I have activated the Intel SpeedStep in BIOS, which means in just one clock cycle the Cores will step up to the necessary speed.

Best Regards from Sweden

 

[Mark_jason]

Love the CPU, how well are you going with it?

Oh very well. I Can tell You: It is by far the easiest CPU to overclock after the Intel 2600K.
It is amazing and easy to cool., Yes I love it!

Ps. Don't go for the 4770K - poor cooling and TIM betewenn the chip and top cooling plate.
4790K has from the beginning 3800MHz and 4200MHz in Turbo charge.
To go from 4200 to 4600MHz was so easy, and I even tried do go for 4800HMz with just 0.02V increase, but after a while I settle down to 4,6GHz.

Now, my professor very seldom uses more than 1-1.8GHz since I have activated the Intel SpeedStep in BIOS, which means in just one clock cycle the Cores will step up to the necessary speed.

Best Regards from Sweden

Thanks for the info.
What do you think of the 6700k, here its abit cheaper than 4790k and newer.

 

[Flyfisherman]

[/quotemsg]
Thanks for the info.
What do you think of the 6700k, here its abit cheaper than 4790k and newer.
[/quotemsg]

http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core-i7-6700K-vs-Intel-Core-i7-4790K
The 6700K is the new Skylake with processor socket 1151 and it requires either DDR4 or DDR3L(Low power memorys).
It also requires a motherboard with Intel Chipset Z170

The 4790K is an almost outdated processor with processor socket 1150, DDR3 memory and Intel Chipset Z97
But, it will and can be more efficient and have more room for OC at lower temp.
Check the comparison table above in the link and those are running at stock frequencies and marvel....

I can't advice either way, I'm just happy with my system, and the next system I will build in the future, hmm who knows what it will be..Hehe
Best regards.

 

[genthug]

The advantage to SLI is power. You're not increasing VRam but you are increasing the amount of power that you're GPU system can put towards a game, because they work in tandem.

You have a car, your engine is a 4 cylinder, your gas tank holds 10 gallons. You upgrade the engine to a v8. That does not effect how much gas you can have at one time in your tank, but you can go much faster now.

Right now, SLI is essentially useless for anything that has less than 2gb of VRam due to the VRAM limitations.

+1 to the 4790k, but if that's more expensive then don't bother with it.

Just looked at the prices, those come out to around $2000. If that's as cheap as those parts come, that pre built is worth it.

 

[Flyfisherman]

The advantage to SLI is power. You're not increasing VRam but you are increasing the amount of power that you're GPU system can put towards a game, because they work in tandem.

You have a car, your engine is a 4 cylinder, your gas tank holds 10 gallons. You upgrade the engine to a v8. That does not effect how much gas you can have at one time in your tank, but you can go much faster now.

Right now, SLI is essentially useless for anything that has less than 2gb of VRam due to the VRAM limitations.

+1 to the 4790k, but if that's more expensive then don't bother with it.

Just looked at the prices, those come out to around $2000. If that's as cheap as those parts come, that pre built is worth it.

Hi, I agree but why I was a little bit against a SLI or a Crossfire is because they are so very difficult to work in many games. Not only AMD but also nVidia regularly has to come out with new drivers to support even older games, not to mention the newer games that just is not working properly in Crossfire nor SLI.

If an ordinary person like us, are to buy such an expensive system; it requires better PSU, better cooling, a good chassis etc. then we would expect that it will work on the latest games, right?
Well it doesn't, because of the driver issues are not supported or the driver is so poorly optimized from the beginning in the latest games that one must turn off SLI/Crossfire.

That is why I personally prefer a good single graphics card, less problem, in overall a cheaper and easier system to maintain and the drivers are released more quicker and their game support as well.

Best Regards from Sweden

 

[genthug]

I agree, but the question was about how SLI works, not whether or not he should get it. No sli config is better suited than just getting a single gfx card on building the machine. Better to wait, then possibly link later on when more games support it more freely. As for the support--a lot of games do, especially recent AAA titles. I can't speak to non-AAA titles, but a lot of them are coming with sli/xfire support otherwise you wouldn't see people benefiting from the crazy 4 way Titan X SLI configs that are out there.

 

[Mark_jason]

The advantage to SLI is power. You're not increasing VRam but you are increasing the amount of power that you're GPU system can put towards a game, because they work in tandem.

You have a car, your engine is a 4 cylinder, your gas tank holds 10 gallons. You upgrade the engine to a v8. That does not effect how much gas you can have at one time in your tank, but you can go much faster now.

Right now, SLI is essentially useless for anything that has less than 2gb of VRam due to the VRAM limitations.

+1 to the 4790k, but if that's more expensive then don't bother with it.

Just looked at the prices, those come out to around $2000. If that's as cheap as those parts come, that pre built is worth it.

So you think I should get it or pick other parts and build a custom one, since you mentioned about the GPU?

 

[genthug]

Honestly that one is gonna end up being entirely up to you. For that price, you won't be able to build a better machine. If you're willing to put more money into it, you certainly can DIY, but if money is an issue, that's a fantastic deal.

 

[Mark_jason]

Honestly that one is gonna end up being entirely up to you. For that price, you won't be able to build a better machine. If you're willing to put more money into it, you certainly can DIY, but if money is an issue, that's a fantastic deal.

I think its a fantastic deal because cables are not managed well (I guess this is the only reason or one of the minor reasons it is at that price), and the case is not that attracticeand you know people these days look for attractive cases. LED lights ... etc.

Ok, can you help me choose good parts and then we can see how much the difference is (if wanna build a better one)? because I'm not familiar with the many brands, especially GPU, MOBO and PSU.