Question Lower temps and longevity of components ?

[karasahin]

Hi,

Contrary to my belief, for example I was told by many here that as long as a CPU runs below the maximum temp allowed by the manufacturer, there is no impact on longevity for it running near maximum or ,say like, 50C degrees lower than maximum allowed.

So my question is, is this for CPUs only or is this true for all computer components?
Cooling is only a thing to prevent performance problems a.k.a throttling?
Longevity isn't affected by temps at all?

Thanks.

 

[Ralston18]

If the CPU generally stays below the allowed temperatures then that certainly could extend longevity in that higher temperaturers could be slowly damaging and shortening the designed in EOL (End of Life).

What I would be more concerned about are the temperature cycles: going from cold to hot rapidly and multiple times.

Temperature changes cause expansion and contraction which can and does physically stress many components.

Gets hot very fast, fans kick in, cools quickly, fans stop, gets hot again, fans start, cools: repeats.

That sort of cycling can occur in many kinds of systems with damaging results.

Temperatures are important: however, the whole needs to be considered as well.

"Every component" then.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

 

[karasahin]

If the CPU generally stays below the allowed temperatures then that certainly could extend longevity in that higher temperaturers could be slowly damaging and shortening the designed in EOL (End of Life).

What I would be more concerned about are the temperature cycles: going from cold to hot rapidly and multiple times.

Temperature changes cause expansion and contraction which can and does physically stress many components.

Gets hot very fast, fans kick in, cools quickly, fans stop, gets hot again, fans start, cools: repeats.

That sort of cycling can occur in many kinds of systems with damaging results.

Temperatures are important: however, the whole needs to be considered as well.

"Every component" then.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

Thanks for your comment!

My CPU is a decade old one and powers the Windows 10 latest. As a result, it often goes too hot too fast. For example, resuming Chrome with 20 tabs open after system restart causes it to go from 40C to 90C in a few seconds. It rapidly cools down after finishing the task.

I do that thing above often, and I think I'm shortening the life of the CPU based on your comment. It doesn't get as hot as 90C and too rapidly with turbo boost off though, so do you think if I want to be able to use my laptop for a foreseeable future, I should turn turbo boost off? I already use additional cooling solutions too.

Maximum designed allowed temp for the CPU is 105C.

 

[karasahin]

Generally, it's true for most components — CPUs, GPUs, SSDs — that if they stay below their maximum rated temperatures, their longevity isn't significantly affected. Cooling mainly helps prevent throttling and ensures stable performance. However, running components cooler (well below max temps) can still slightly extend their lifespan over many years, especially for things like SSDs and VRMs.

The best first forum post! Thanks to you too for your comment.

So far based on the comments it seems it would be better for me to keep my laptop's components' temps as low as possible and their temp fluctuations minimal without losing too much performance to keep them working as long as possible.

I would love to read more opinions on this matter.

Edit: oops I guess someone got unalived or something like that.

 

[geofelt]

The killer for longevity is running at higher than acceptable voltages.
Not temperature as such.
But, there is a connection.
Running at high voltages increases temperatures.

 

[karasahin]

The killer for longevity is running at higher than acceptable voltages.
Not temperature as such.
But, there is a connection.
Running at high voltages increases temperatures.

I've also read something similar to your comment here before. By "acceptable voltages" do you mean maximum allowed voltages designed by manufacturers? For a CPU, would you consider voltages under turbo boost load higher than acceptable or just overclocked clocks more than turbo boost clocks causing higher voltages etc.?

 

[geofelt]

The manufacturers know their products and have recommended maximum voltages.
A year ago motherboard makers had default settings that boosted voltages past the recommendations.
This was to boost their performance in reviews and benchmarks.
Normally not a problem.
But combined with some defects in 13/14 gen intel processors
The result was damaged processors.
The root cause has been found a year ago and fixes have been widely distributed.
It is an example of what excessive voltage can do.
Today, if one has a current Bios and does not explicitly manipulate voltages, the turbo boost action should be perfectly safe.
An intel engineer said that "if you do not occasionally touch 100c. you are leaving performance on the table"

 

[karasahin]

The manufacturers know their products and have recommended maximum voltages.
A year ago motherboard makers had default settings that boosted voltages past the recommendations.
This was to boost their performance in reviews and benchmarks.
Normally not a problem.
But combined with some defects in 13/14 gen intel processors
The result was damaged processors.
The root cause has been found a year ago and fixes have been widely distributed.
It is an example of what excessive voltage can do.
Today, if one has a current Bios and does not explicitly manipulate voltages, the turbo boost action should be perfectly safe.
An intel engineer said that "if you do not occasionally touch 100c. you are leaving performance on the table"

Interesting. Thanks for all the info.

I am 99% confident that my CPU has so far reached 100C once or twice only. so that's a good thing for me.

But, it's still old and due to modern system requirements it often gets 90C within a few seconds from 40-50C, experiencing a situation that another titan in the thread said something to be concerned about. Disabling turbo boost helps mitigate it.

What's your opinion on that?

 

[punkncat]

IMO, by and large any PC hardware that it used within its design limits should last well into obsolescence. Certain recent issues notwithstanding, such as the above mentioned 13/14th gen Intel CPU, seems like I also recall a quick resolution on a 'burning' issue with the AM5 Ryzen line.

 

[karasahin]

IMO, by and large any PC hardware that it used within its design limits should last well into obsolescence. Certain recent issues notwithstanding, such as the above mentioned 13/14th gen Intel CPU, seems like I also recall a quick resolution on a 'burning' issue with the AM5 Ryzen line.

Thanks! I'm still undecided on the matter, as lowering clocks by disabling turbo mean less voltage and that means less aggressive temperature cycles/fluctuations for especially my CPU but I'd like to know what could cause it into obsolescence if not for expansion and contraction of the die?

 

[punkncat]

If you are going to lower clocks in the consideration of voltage and heat, why not select a lesser skew CPU in the first place?

Don't overthink this. Use proper cooling. Keep the PC clean of dust. It should be fine for years to come.

 

[geofelt]

What is the cpu and cooler in question?

A decades old processor is probably on your list to be replaced for performance reasons.

Otherwise, keep on using it and don't worry too much.
Processors monitor their temperatures, and if it detects a dangerous temperature it will slow down or even shut off to protect itself.

 

[karasahin]

If you are going to lower clocks in the consideration of voltage and heat, why not select a lesser skew CPU in the first place?

Don't overthink this. Use proper cooling. Keep the PC clean of dust. It should be fine for years to come.

What is the cpu and cooler in question?

A decades old processor is probably on your list to be replaced for performance reasons.

Otherwise, keep on using it and don't worry too much.
Processors monitor their temperatures, and if it detects a dangerous temperature it will slow down or even shut off to protect itself.

To be quite honest, my goal is to keep my already turned archaic CPU (i5 3210M) still running as long as possible (why, because) without losing too much performance (cause why not).

Disabling turbo alongside with using an additional cooling fan would help me getting less average and max temps, less aggressive temperature fluctuations, etc.

Based on the comments by other helpers in the thread that this should help me achieving my goal. Unless you disagree with those comments?

 

[punkncat]

Wow, that has to be a pretty underwhelming CPU experience at this point. If it is working for you, all the better.

Laptops typically have very little by way of options for controlling the CPU. Near zero you can actually do about cooling. If this thing has been working this long on out of box settings my opinion would be to leave it alone and let it eat.

 

[karasahin]

Wow, that has to be a pretty underwhelming CPU experience at this point. If it is working for you, all the better.

Laptops typically have very little by way of options for controlling the CPU. Near zero you can actually do about cooling. If this thing has been working this long on out of box settings my opinion would be to leave it alone and let it eat.

I have used it with turbo boost off most of the time since the beginning due to wanting more longevity and lesser overall & max temps. Recently I turned it back on, and I guess it felt faster (maybe pseudo effect) but it's off now again.

Like you said, laptops (especially old and mainstream ones) having turbo on is luxury with their own cooling solutions being mediocre, making them even more prone to expansion and contraction of the components due to temps fluctuation.

 

[JayGau]

I don't understand what you want to achieve. Your CPU is already 10 year old and most likely won't last for another decade. You won't increase its longevity by doing something now. Whatever that could impact its EoL already happened and whatever you do now is not going to significantly change anything.

 

[Bob.B]

I have used it with turbo boost off most of the time since the beginning due to wanting more longevity and lesser overall & max temps. Recently I turned it back on, and I guess it felt faster (maybe pseudo effect) but it's off now again.

Like you said, laptops (especially old and mainstream ones) having turbo on is luxury with their own cooling solutions being mediocre, making them even more prone to expansion and contraction of the components due to temps fluctuation.

What windows power plan are you running?

 

[karasahin]

I don't understand what you want to achieve. Your CPU is already 10 year old and most likely won't last for another decade. You won't increase its longevity by doing something now. Whatever that could impact its EoL already happened and whatever you do now is not going to significantly change anything.

Considering I haven't used it with its full potential by disabling turbo for most of the time, I'm hoping to keep it running realistically for a few more years. I'm also aware another decade is not realistic so you can call it significant but I don't need to change things significantly just for a few years more longevity gain. Then I'll buy a new gaming laptop (hopefully😆)

What windows power plan are you running?

Balanced, although tweaked for my needs. For example, least CPU usage is set to 1% and max is set to 99% (for turning turbo boost off)

 

[beyondlogic]

Hi,

Contrary to my belief, for example I was told by many here that as long as a CPU runs below at maximum allowed (by manufacturers) temps, there is no impact on longevity for it running near maximum or ,say like, 50C degrees lower than maximum allowed.

So my question is that: is this for CPUs only or for every computer components? Cooling is only a thing to prevent performance problems a.k.a throttling? Longevity isn't affected by temps at all?

Thanks.

lower the temp on any hardware the better however to low can cause condensation in the pc basicly when i build systems the goal is between 55-70c

second after temps which causes high temps is voltage

lower voltage lower temps longer shelf life of cpu. Undervolting is better then overclocking it doesnt damage the cpu compared to overclocking. and your more likely to get better boosting.

running a cpu at above 1.35v can cause degrading and longevity and sometimes isn't even necessary.

gpu/cpu manufacturers will test cpus and gpus to a spec at certain voltage but some of these chips can achieve the same performance at lower voltage.

example my 5900x does just fine getting to 4.9/5.0 on most cores at 1.35v max voltage allowed. with clocks at auto. thats down from 1.5 which it kept bouncing towards.

 

[beyondlogic]

Considering I haven't used it with its full potential by disabling turbo for most of the time, I'm hoping to keep it running realistically for a few more years. I'm also aware another decade is not realistic so you can call it significant but I don't need to change things significantly just for a few years more longevity gain. Then I'll buy a new gaming laptop (hopefully😆)


Balanced, although tweaked for my needs. For example, least CPU usage is set to 1% and max is set to 99% (for turning turbo boost off)

what is full specs of your system and cooling

 

[karasahin]

@beyondlogic thanks!

I really wish undervolting was possible for the 3th gen Ivy Bridge CPUs, it's unlucky that it became possible for the 4th ones.

I never thought about effects of condensation and expansion on components before opening the thread to be honest, so I'm glad that I did. I'll be careful about those indeed.

By the way, it's an HP laptop powered by an i5 3210M & 7670M combo and 8 GB ram at 1600 mhz. For cooling, there is only one internal fan and shared heatsink for both CPU and GPU. For additional cooling, I have got this foamed sealed cooling pad called Memo FL08 that helps reducing temps.

 

[beyondlogic]

@beyondlogic thanks!

I really wish undervolting was possible for the 3th gen Ivy Bridge CPUs, it's unlucky that it became possible for the 4th ones.

I never thought about effects of condensation and expansion on components before opening the thread to be honest, so I'm glad that I did. I'll be careful about those indeed.

By the way, it's an HP laptop powered by an i5 3210M & 7670M combo and 8 GB ram at 1600 mhz. For cooling, there is only one internal fan and shared heatsink for both CPU and GPU. For additional cooling, I have got this foamed sealed cooling pad called Memo FL08 that helps reducing temps.

I've heard of them not sold on them the concept is bad because your essentially fighting the exhaust fan and starving the exhaust fan of fresh air. Laptop bottom plate designs are hopeless these days.

You could try better thermal pads and thermal right t8 paste. Or EZDIY-FAB A180.

Apart from that you go into extreme cooling which is remake the bottom of the laptop as a heatsink.

Word of warning hp hinges are prone to breaking due to being attached to fragile plastic.

 

[karasahin]

I've heard of them not sold on them the concept is bad because your essentially fighting the exhaust fan and starving the exhaust fan of fresh air. Laptop bottom plate designs are hopeless these days.

You could try better thermal pads and thermal right t8 paste. Or EZDIY-FAB A180.

Apart from that you go into extreme cooling which is remake the bottom of the laptop as a heatsink.

Word of warning hp hinges are prone to breaking due to being attached to fragile plastic.

Maybe you're right but luckily it's a 15.6" sized laptop and the cooling pad is bigger than that, also the exhaust fan is on the left side (top right, on the edge in the pic), so with just a little adjustment it doesn't get suffocated and since bottom design allows above average (at least I think so) air flow from below, it's better than nothing.

However, at medium rpm settings it still doesn't prevent the CPU going from 40-50C up to above 90C often from within a few seconds when turbo boost is on. It does help cooling rapidly when the CPU finishes its task but expansion and contraction could be an issue.

Good suggestion on thermal pads and paste, however I'm not skilled enough to disassemble it. I've had it thermal paste changed and cleaned a year ago by a tech service though.

Indeed, I had to replace hinges once but didn't know they were that bad 😆 Maybe I'll avoid HP next time. And yeah I don't want to risk it by remaking the bottom as it's already fragile.

 

[beyondlogic]

Maybe you're right but luckily it's a 15.6" sized laptop and the cooling pad is bigger than that, also the exhaust fan is on the left side (top right, on the edge in the pic), so with just a little adjustment it doesn't get suffocated and since bottom design allows above average (at least I think so) air flow from below, it's better than nothing.

However, at medium rpm settings it still doesn't prevent the CPU going from 40-50C up to above 90C often from within a few seconds when turbo boost is on. It does help cooling rapidly when the CPU finishes its task but expansion and contraction could be an issue.

Good suggestion on thermal pads and paste, however I'm not skilled enough to disassemble it. I've had it thermal paste changed and cleaned a year ago by a tech service though.

Indeed, I had to replace hinges once but didn't know they were that bad 😆 Maybe I'll avoid HP next time. And yeah I don't want to risk it by remaking the bottom as it's already fragile.

Yeah older models were a pain and usually you needed to dismantle the keyboard etc. ( I repair consoles and older laptops. Hp and dell are by far the worst for designs of bad hinges and sabotage they use thread lock or poor quality screws.

Honestly with those laptops they normally heat up due to clogged fan if you use a electric air duster small blasta can remove it just aim over the vent where the fan is removed battery and don't blast it constant over long periods. ( Never use canned air because they get too cold and release liquid).

IT Dusters CompuCleaner Original Electric Air Duster.

I used to own a hp myself all I did to modify it was replace the ram cover with a modified one. Removed the cover and dremeles some holes then used aluminium mesh and attached it to the cover. It looked getto but dropped temps down a bit.

I recon youd benefit more with aluminium laptop pad with fan adjustment. Since you have so little venting under the laptop I doubt the bad is doing a massive benefit.

 

[karasahin]

@beyondlogic yes that's why I don't try to modify or clean or repair things inside the laptop by myself. I actually unalived a laptop as same as mine so never again. I just leave those stuff to professionals like you now.

About the cooling pad, I was actually using a pure aluminum-surfaced cooling pad with two fans (NC2000) but its fans stopped working so I bought this one. Performance-wise they are more or less the same which is good for me as the NC2000 was discontinued. I'm planning to use this cooling pad for my next laptop as well.