[LSJ] Various KMW scenarios

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Ok, now that we all are trying to do things with this cards, some deck ideas
have come to my mind, but with them a few questions I'm afraid I couldn't
answer properly:

Situation A

Rabbat and another vamp A in play. I bleed with A, and A gets blocked by B.
Rabbat plays hidden lurker followed up with drawing out the beast, send B to
torpor and then play amaranth. Can Rabbat play Rebirth( Action modifier)? my
guess is that "it" is able to play it, but i'm not sure...

Situation B

I develop an Alastor Deck. I have a trophy: diablerie in my hand/deck/ash
heap. I manage to name B red list, then send her to torpor and play amaranth
or commit diablerie with another vamp. If the sequence is similar to "get
skill card for diablerie", i guess i'm able to search through my library,
hand or ash heap for a trophy:diablerie and play it on the diabolist, (along
with any trophies I've already managed to put in play as a MPA before that I
wanted to play on that vamp) then blood hunt is called. So I discard the
just gained trophy to avoid the blood hunt. Is this correct?

Smiling Tom, seeing how brujah will only survive from now on packing damage
prevention
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

> Can Rabbat play Rebirth( Action modifier)? my
guess is that "it" is able to play it, but i'm not sure...


no...

read the rebirth card again (it has to be a diablerie action)...


> So I discard the just gained trophy to avoid the blood hunt. Is this
correct?

yes...
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

LSJ wrote:
>>> So I discard the just gained trophy to avoid the blood hunt. Is
this
>> correct?
>> yes...
>
> Yes.

Really nice!

I have more questions:
- if the opposing vampire has higher cap, does the diabolist gets to
search also a Master Discipline along with the Trophy?
- after the diablerie, if there are 2 Trophies in play, can he go
through the library, hand or ash heap to search an additional trophy
and move all 3 to him?
- can he have on him 2 Trophy😀iablerie?
- in the last case, after a diablerie can he use only 1 and keep the
other after the action ends?

Thanks,
..- Luis Duarte
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Two more questions:
- Can i use Parthenon to mark 2 different Red List vampires during my
Master Phase?
- Assuming a positive answer to the previous question, can a vampire
enter combat with a marked Red List (using the Red List enter combat
mechanism), untap and enter combat with another marked Red List vampire
the same way? (the rule restricts once per turn, but i'm not sure what
happens in this case)

Thanks.
..- Luis Duarte
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

> this card will self-destruct in... oops, it's already gone


its a one time free diablerie. i think its one of the better trophies
(especially since you can fetch it out of the deck if you need it)...
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

One free time diablerie?? Why?
After the first diablerie, the Trophy is burned and goes to the ash
heap.
In case of a second red list diablerie, you can fetch it again from the
ash heap again, right?
A deck needs only one copy of this Trophy that can be used several
times.

..- Luis Duarte
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"denis" <inomine@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:1109073369.072058.281030@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > Can Rabbat play Rebirth( Action modifier)? my
> guess is that "it" is able to play it, but i'm not sure...
>
> no...
> read the rebirth card again (it has to be a diablerie action)...

Correct and also note that action modifiers are only playable
by an acting minion, so she couldn't play it for that reason,
either.

> > So I discard the just gained trophy to avoid the blood hunt. Is this
> correct?
>
> yes...

Yes.

--
LSJ (vtesrep@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
V:TES homepage: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Though effective, appear to be ineffective -- Sun Tzu
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

On Tue, 22 Feb 2005, LSJ wrote:

>>> So I discard the just gained trophy to avoid the blood hunt. Is this
>> correct?
>>
>> yes...
>
> Yes.

Hold on. You don't have to discard the Trophy: Diablerie until the
vampire commits another diablerie, right? It gets you out of two of them.

As I understand it, the sequence is:

Diablerie (either as an action or by playing Amaranth)
Gain Trophy: Diablerie (and maybe blood, equipment, skill card and other
Trophies)
Blood Hunt is not called due to text on Trophy: Diablerie

Next time that vampire commits diablerie, Trophy: Diablerie is
automatically discarded.

Matt Morgan
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"Luis Duarte - Powerbase:Lisbon" <luis.paleta@netcabo.pt> wrote in message
> - if the opposing vampire has higher cap, does the diabolist gets to
> search also a Master Discipline along with the Trophy?

?
Why wouldn't he?

> - after the diablerie, if there are 2 Trophies in play, can he go
> through the library, hand or ash heap to search an additional trophy
> and move all 3 to him?

Rules text says so explicitly.

> - can he have on him 2 Trophy😀iablerie?

No stacking limit, no.

> - in the last case, after a diablerie can he use only 1 and keep the
> other after the action ends?

No. Card text: "burn this card at the end of the action."

--
LSJ (vtesrep@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
V:TES homepage: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Though effective, appear to be ineffective -- Sun Tzu
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"Luis Duarte - Powerbase:Lisbon" <luis.paleta@netcabo.pt> wrote in message
> Two more questions:
> - Can i use Parthenon to mark 2 different Red List vampires during my
> Master Phase?

Yes. "Any Methuselah may use a master phase action to mark a Red List
minion for the current turn."

> - Assuming a positive answer to the previous question, can a vampire
> enter combat with a marked Red List (using the Red List enter combat
> mechanism), untap and enter combat with another marked Red List vampire
> the same way? (the rule restricts once per turn, but i'm not sure what
> happens in this case)

No. "Each vampire can take this action only once each turn."

--
LSJ (vtesrep@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
V:TES homepage: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Though effective, appear to be ineffective -- Sun Tzu
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"Matthew T. Morgan" <farquar@io.com> wrote in message
news:20050222082447.Y24039@fnord.io.com...
> On Tue, 22 Feb 2005, LSJ wrote:
>
> >>> So I discard the just gained trophy to avoid the blood hunt. Is this
> >> correct?
> >>
> >> yes...
> >
> > Yes.
>
> Hold on. You don't have to discard the Trophy: Diablerie until the
> vampire commits another diablerie, right? It gets you out of two of
them.

No. You burn it at the end of that action.
It gets you out of only one.

>
> As I understand it, the sequence is:
>
> Diablerie (either as an action or by playing Amaranth)
> Gain Trophy: Diablerie (and maybe blood, equipment, skill card and other
> Trophies)

This is part of the Diablerie.

> Blood Hunt is not called due to text on Trophy: Diablerie

and finally: action ends. Burn the Trophy: Diablerie.

--
LSJ (vtesrep@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
V:TES homepage: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Though effective, appear to be ineffective -- Sun Tzu
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"LSJ" <vtesrepSPAM@TRAPwhite-wolf.com> wrote in message
news:cvfgbm$jeh$1@domitilla.aioe.org...
> "Matthew T. Morgan" <farquar@io.com> wrote in message
> news:20050222082447.Y24039@fnord.io.com...
> > On Tue, 22 Feb 2005, LSJ wrote:

[Someone else wrote]

> > >>> So I discard the just gained trophy to avoid the blood hunt. Is
this
> > >> correct?

> > > Yes.
> >
> > Hold on. You don't have to discard the Trophy: Diablerie until the
> > vampire commits another diablerie, right? It gets you out of two of
> them.
>
> No. You burn it at the end of that action.
> It gets you out of only one.
>
> >
> > As I understand it, the sequence is:
> >
> > Diablerie (either as an action or by playing Amaranth)
> > Gain Trophy: Diablerie (and maybe blood, equipment, skill card and
other
> > Trophies)
>
> This is part of the Diablerie.
>
> > Blood Hunt is not called due to text on Trophy: Diablerie
>
> and finally: action ends. Burn the Trophy: Diablerie.

Hmm. The wording "If this vampire successfully diablerizes another
vampire, burn the card at the end of the action" had me thinking that
the card's burning was triggered by diablerie being started while the
Trophy was on the vampire. If the Trophy is placed "in the middle" of
diablerie, it seemed to me that that wouldn't constitute the
Trophy-holder "successfully diablerizing" another vampire while the
Trophy was on, since that diablerie was already going on when the Trophy
was placed.

But if that's the intent of the card, I guess it's reasonable.


Josh

this card will self-destruct in... oops, it's already gone
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"Joshua Duffin" <jtduffin@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3816jhF5jg74qU1@individual.net...
> Hmm. The wording "If this vampire successfully diablerizes another
> vampire, burn the card at the end of the action" had me thinking that
> the card's burning was triggered by diablerie being started while the
> Trophy was on the vampire. If the Trophy is placed "in the middle" of
> diablerie, it seemed to me that that wouldn't constitute the
> Trophy-holder "successfully diablerizing" another vampire while the
> Trophy was on, since that diablerie was already going on when the Trophy
> was placed.

You're trying to argue that "is diablerizing" is not an
instance of "diaberlizes".

That doesn't wash.

--
LSJ (vtesrep@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
V:TES homepage: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Though effective, appear to be ineffective -- Sun Tzu
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"LSJ" <vtesrepSPAM@TRAPwhite-wolf.com> wrote in message
news:cvfqbf$o7c$1@domitilla.aioe.org...
> "Joshua Duffin" <jtduffin@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:3816jhF5jg74qU1@individual.net...
> > Hmm. The wording "If this vampire successfully diablerizes another
> > vampire, burn the card at the end of the action" had me thinking
that
> > the card's burning was triggered by diablerie being started while
the
> > Trophy was on the vampire. If the Trophy is placed "in the middle"
of
> > diablerie, it seemed to me that that wouldn't constitute the
> > Trophy-holder "successfully diablerizing" another vampire while the
> > Trophy was on, since that diablerie was already going on when the
Trophy
> > was placed.
>
> You're trying to argue that "is diablerizing" is not an
> instance of "diaberlizes".
>
> That doesn't wash.

Uh... it depends on the verb phrase. English has plenty of various ways
for verbs to work.

The use of "successfully", though, does make it more sensible after
thinking about it, since success is evaluated after you're done,
normally, in VTES.

But if the phrase on a (hypothetical) card were "if this vampire enters
combat with another vampire", it would be clear that the condition had
not been met if the card were put on the vampire during combat.

If the phrase on a card were "if this vampire successfully hunts", it
would be just as clear that the condition had been met if the card were
put on the vampire during a hunt action, if the action ended
successfully.

It's just a little less obvious here, since "diablerizing" is something
that can normally be evaluated as "successful" well before you get to
the placing of the Trophy card, since making the diablerie fail would
have required playing Reform Body or something before the diablerie
target was even burned.


Josh

unitalicized
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"Joshua Duffin" <jtduffin@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3819i9F5j7kprU1@individual.net...
> "LSJ" <vtesrepSPAM@TRAPwhite-wolf.com> wrote in message
> > You're trying to argue that "is diablerizing" is not an
> > instance of "diaberlizes".
> >
> > That doesn't wash.
>
> Uh... it depends on the verb phrase. English has plenty of various ways
> for verbs to work.

Then use Faceless Night for a parallel to see how this sort
of verb works in VTES.

--
LSJ (vtesrep@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
V:TES homepage: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Though effective, appear to be ineffective -- Sun Tzu
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"Luis Duarte - Powerbase:Lisbon" <luis.paleta@netcabo.pt> wrote in message
news:1109098336.871675.273580@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> One free time diablerie?? Why?
> After the first diablerie, the Trophy is burned and goes to the ash
> heap.
> In case of a second red list diablerie, you can fetch it again from the
> ash heap again, right?
> A deck needs only one copy of this Trophy that can be used several
> times.

Yes. Several Red List times.

The question wasn't about several Red List times, though.
It was about an initial Red List time followed by a second
not-necessarily-Red-List time.

--
LSJ (vtesrep@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
V:TES homepage: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Though effective, appear to be ineffective -- Sun Tzu
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Raille wrote:
>> LSJ wrote:
>> also note that action modifiers are only playable by an acting
minion
>
> Just to nit pick, that is not always the case. See Cloak the
Gathering and
> Hidden Lurker for exceptions.

1.4. The Golden Rule for Cards
Whenever the cards contradict the rules, the cards take precedence.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Just to make sure, does that mean that as long as as you put one
Trophy: Diablerie in your deck, you will never burn for diablerizing a
Red List minion?
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

adam.hu...@ngc.com wrote:
> Just to make sure, does that mean that as long as as you put one
> Trophy: Diablerie in your deck, you will never burn for diablerizing
a
> Red List minion?

Unless you do something dumb like put it on a minion who burns a Red
Lister with Agg damage or something.

John
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"LSJ" <vtesrepSPAM@TRAPwhite-wolf.com> wrote in message
news:cvfd0b$hg3$1@domitilla.aioe.org...
> "denis" <inomine@gmx.net> wrote in message
> news:1109073369.072058.281030@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> > Can Rabbat play Rebirth( Action modifier)? my
>> guess is that "it" is able to play it, but i'm not sure...
>>
>> no...
>> read the rebirth card again (it has to be a diablerie action)...
>
> Correct and also note that action modifiers are only playable
> by an acting minion, so she couldn't play it for that reason,
> either.


Just to nit pick, that is not always the case. See Cloak the Gathering and
Hidden Lurker for exceptions.


>> > So I discard the just gained trophy to avoid the blood hunt. Is this
>> correct?
>>
>> yes...
>
> Yes.
>
> --
> LSJ (vtesrep@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
> V:TES homepage: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
> Though effective, appear to be ineffective -- Sun Tzu
>
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Raille wrote:

> "LSJ" <vtesrepSPAM@TRAPwhite-wolf.com> wrote in message
> news:cvfd0b$hg3$1@domitilla.aioe.org...
>
>>"denis" <inomine@gmx.net> wrote in message
>>news:1109073369.072058.281030@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>>>Can Rabbat play Rebirth( Action modifier)? my
>>>
>>>guess is that "it" is able to play it, but i'm not sure...
>>>
>>>no...
>>>read the rebirth card again (it has to be a diablerie action)...
>>
>>Correct and also note that action modifiers are only playable
>>by an acting minion, so she couldn't play it for that reason,
>>either.
>
> Just to nit pick, that is not always the case. See Cloak the Gathering and
> Hidden Lurker for exceptions.

That's not a nit, that's an exception provided by card
text. You'll note that Rebirth has no such exception text.

--
LSJ (vtesrep@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

<adam.hulse@ngc.com> wrote in message
news:1109251381.441081.156210@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Just to make sure, does that mean that as long as as you put one
> Trophy: Diablerie in your deck, you will never burn for diablerizing a
> Red List minion?

As long as you can put it on the diablerist, right.

(It might be taken by Agaitas's ability from your deck, or it
might wind up on a minion in play while another vampire goes
and diablerizes a Red List, or the diablerist might be
blocking a Red List leaving torpor and thus not be
eligible for a Trophy, etc.)


--
LSJ (vtesrep@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
V:TES homepage: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Though effective, appear to be ineffective -- Sun Tzu
 
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