May the Force be with you

[327goat]

It's almost old news by now, but I've just got to say

Thank you Nvidia, thank you very much.

so far, it looks like nvidia has really done their homework. I'm throughly impressed, can't wait for some real benchmark results. Hmm, and it wasn't too long ago that i thought nvidia was only going to make a northbridge, and still have to rely on a via southbridge. Glad i was wrong.

<font color=red> To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism, to steal ideas from many is research.</font color=red>

 

[rcf84]

Have we heard about if nforce will support Kyro2, radeon, trident cards. Nope the only types of cards i seen supported are Geforce cards.

i want to see a nforce card run an ATi radeon. Remember the KX133 giving problems with the radeon.

Nice Intel and AMD users get a Cookie.... Yummy

 

[rcf84]

Have we heard about if nforce will support Kyro2, radeon, trident cards. Nope the only types of cards i seen supported are Geforce cards.

i want to see a nforce run an ATi radeon. Remember the KX133 giving problems with the radeon.

Nice Intel and AMD users get a Cookie.... Yummy

 

[noko]

NoForce:
1. No USB2
2. No IEEE, Firewire
3. No AGP8x
4. No SMP

There is room for improvement as in any chipset. The graphics is subpar from the get go (better then any other intergrated graphics just don't run those DX8 games though). The TwinBank Memory and DASP is the only real improvement if it works with the AMD HyperTransport. The sound is an added bonus but how many business people in offices need 5.1 APU with Dolby Prologic??? So we have a cheap home computer system board here. How about video out or video in with that 5.1 Dolby Prologic? Performance and stability may make this the chipset of choice not its graphics or audio.

Well to eat your <b>C kie</b> and have it too, gotta get <b>Rade n II</b><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by noko on 06/04/01 04:44 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[327goat]

Personally, I'm more than impressed with my GTS, and more than likely, I'll buy nVidia graphics again, but I do hope that the other graphics chip makers are supported.

if nothing else, it makes for an even playing ground for nVidia to, yet again, prove their superiority.

I've owned two ati's in the last five years, both of which i thought were complate garbage, with numerous driver and compatibility problems. My GTS has been a joy to work with compared to the ati cards i owned previously. I switched over because of what i saw as a better product, no brand bias involved. In fact, I went out of my way to support ati, since they're canadian, but their products just didn't cut it. Same with intel, i was once a loyal user, but not anymore, i just got too tired of one foolish move after another. There's no room for brand biases anymore, gotta just stick to what's best when you've got to buy.

<font color=red> To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism, to steal ideas from many is research.</font color=red>

 

[327goat]

this is true

i've never been a fan of onboard audio or graphics to begin with, but for a first go, that chipset looks pretty damn promising. further revisions will more than likely stand to be even more promising. It looks like a great start, with nowhere to go but up.

<font color=red> To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism, to steal ideas from many is research.</font color=red>

 

[Guest]

trident hahhaa

now thats a name that brings back bad memories

--call it what you wish, with this machine I can make mercury flow in 3 directions at once--

 

[Ncogneto]

<font color=red>1. No USB2
2. No IEEE, Firewire
3. No AGP8x
4. No SMP</font color=red>

Lets see, first to point one as there are currently hardly any usb2 devices out there yet this is hardly a concern to most, and to those it does affect an and on card can certainly be implemented.

2) Pretty much the same as point one

3) hmmm now this is really interesting, seeing how Nvidia is currently the top producer ( or dam close) of video cards maybe they know something? you think they would produce a video card that would not be able to run in its own chipset? Really, AGP 4x is not even yet used why do we need agp 8x?

5) No SMP....Well this is the first chipset they ever designed give them a little break, SMP chipsets may or may not follow.

All of your points are irrelevant to 95% of the users out ther today. To include these features would increase the cost of the board merely to appease the remanining 5%, this doews not make good business sense. Also be aware that while they choose to show the mico-atx version( they wanted to show it could be implemented in a small board to appease the OEM's concerns) Abit has a full ATX board ready for production and I am sure others will follow. Also, Onboard Audio will not be on all boards for those who do not wish it. The real main concern is how will the chipset fair when used with another makers AGP card? Well I guess if you had to be stuck with a certain video card maker you could do alot worse than Nvidia.

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!

 

[rcf84]

Well does nforce support:

1)PCI-X
2)PCI 64-bit

Nope. Well back looking at those nice serverworks boards again.

Nice Intel and AMD users get a Cookie.... Yummy

 

[Ncogneto]

LOL, you continue to amuse me. Look Dude this is a home desktop motherboard not a server oriented motherboard why in the HE** would they include those???????? Do you own any 64 bit pci cards???????

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!

 

[rcf84]

Yes a SCSI3 320 card.

Nice Intel and AMD users get a Cookie.... Yummy

 

[noko]

Abit has NoForce board ready for production??? How do you know?

Apparently development of nForce boards has been quite rushed as we heard numerous times that designers <b><font color=purple>started with essentially nothing about five weeks ago</font color=purple></b> . Working samples were available to play with in private rooms at Computex; although we've been told <b>performance</b> and <b>stability</b> still <b>need</b> quite a bit of <b>work, both in terms of motherboard and chipset designs.</b>
<A HREF="http://www.AnAndTech.com" target="_new">http://www.AnAndTech.com</A>

Doesn't look like anybody is ready for production yet.

Product delivered is the real test other wise it is vapor ware. I would hope a top notch graphic card producer would include key new technology as in 8x AGP into their chipset. When polygon count starts reaching the 1 million triangles per second transfer rate throught the AGP bus 4x will start being a bottleneck. No ieee 1394 interface where virtually every digital camera and digital still camera has it is something that alot of people could use. USB 2, why not? Is your logic that you must have USB 2 devices before you incorporate the device on your computer?? :redface: As for SMP what in the world do you need 4.7gb/sec transfer rate capability if you are not going to use it? Doesn't SDram 133 do a good job keeping up with DDR2100 ram on most applications. In all reality I hope the best for this chipset but I don't see it the greatest chipset of all time, at least yet.

Well to eat your <b>C kie</b> and have it too, gotta get <b>Rade n II</b><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by noko on 06/04/01 09:14 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[rcf84]

Guess what the SiS735 is ready to go. If the chipset gets support it will make it. Well like i said sis 1gb is faster then 800mb of nvidia.

Nice Intel and AMD users get a Cookie.... Yummy

 

[noko]

I have a feeling that the SIS 735 is going to blow the NoForce out of the water. Maybe a year and half from the introduction of the NoForce chipset there will be some semi stable drivers available. This is all conjecture on my part I might add.

Well to eat your <b>C kie</b> and have it too, gotta get <b>Rade n II</b>

 

[rcf84]

yup, also i wouldn't buy into a new company wait 2 or 3 years then buy a NoForce.

Nice Intel and AMD users get a Cookie.... Yummy

 

[Ncogneto]

Over at Aces they've got some data about the upcoming Nvidia Chipset, Crush. Looks like they got hold of a list of some of the motherbaords that are going to be announced that use the Crush12 chipset.

ABIT NV7. This ATX mainboard will have 1 AGP and 5 PCI slots, 4 USB ports, 3 DIMM slots for PC1600/PC2100 DDR SDRAM. It will support ATA/100 and have integrated AC'97 sound.

ABIT NV22. This MicroATX mainboard features 1 AGP and 3 PCI slots, 4 USB ports and 3 DIMM slots for PC1600/PC2100 DDR SDRAM. It will also support ATA/100 and have AC'97 onboard sound.

Gigabyte GA-7NTM. This MicroATX mainboard features 1 AGP and 3 PCI slots, 4 USB ports and 3 DIMM slots for PC1600/PC2100 DDR SDRAM. It will also support ATA/100 and have AC'97 onboard sound.

MSI MS-6367. This MicroATX board has 3 DIMM slots for PC1600/PC2100 DDR SDRAM, 1 AGP, 1 CNR and 3 PCI slots, 6 USB ports and integrated NVIDIA APU sound (audio processor unit).


My point still applies about the issues. Simply put most users will not need them. There is no reason to add these features to a low cost ( but high peformance) solution. This would be a very bad business decision. The object here is to provide the top of the line performance while keeping cost down insureing a penetration into the OEM market. This very well may not be the board for everyone as no motherboard is. Who's to say that those features will not be added in a future revision? Users that require all those features will be hard pressed to find any motherboard that has them all at least at anything comparable in price. Users that need one or maybe two would still be better off with this board and getting an add on pc card to provide those additional features. What you suggest is to critisize the absense of something that most people would not want to pay for. You can't keep everyone happy. On the other end of the spectrum we have people saying that the board has to much integration and they would prefer not to have onboard audio and video. Furthermore, perhaps I would have been better off saying the Abit has a full ATX board planned for production. I think you may have misunderstood me to mean they have the board ready for release which was not my intention.

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!

 

[rcf84]

ncogneto where is the lan controller "cough cough SiS 735 has one".

Nice Intel and AMD users get a Cookie.... Yummy

 

[Ncogneto]

You may actually want to read the article before making a further fool of your self:

High bandwidth HyperTransport interface as connection to the IGP.
Dual ATA100 IDE controller
NVIDIA APU (Audio Processing Unit) sound device with a huge feature set, including Dolby Digital encoding for AC3-output.
Full networking feature set, including FastEthernet 100/10 Mbit, HomePNA 2.0 (home phone line networking) and SoftModem
Six concurrent USB-ports with 2 USB-hubs
SteamThru, allowing high bandwidth and guaranteed real time memory access of all devices connected to the MCP, as typically required by video or audio broadcasting from disk, CD, DVD, LAN, WAN, IEEE1394 or when burning a CDROM.

<A HREF="http://www4.tomshardware.com/mainboard/01q2/0106041/nforce-03.html#the_south_bridge" target="_new">http://www4.tomshardware.com/mainboard/01q2/0106041/nforce-03.html#the_south_bridge</A>

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!

 

[rcf84]

Well no matter the SiS is a better solution. the Single chip design is still much better then the North-south bridge design.

Nice Intel and AMD users get a Cookie.... Yummy

 

[noko]

Please realize that IEEE1394 and USB 2 would keep the cost down better if intergrated. To add each one separately adds up the costs. Well it really doesn't look like anyone else is going to include those features either, I just hoped someone did. As for 8x AGP it is kinda hard for a graphics company to design the next wave of advance graphics cards when there is no support for the increase bandwidth required. Obviously TrueForm technology from ATI will be much needed in this case and solve the AGP bandwidth problems.

Well to eat your <b>C kie</b> and have it too, gotta get <b>Rade n II</b>

 

[rcf84]

Remember isnt intel the creator of AGP. Well i guess intel is good for something. Maybe more things too !!!

Nice Intel and AMD users get a Cookie.... Yummy

 

[Ncogneto]

Once again I implore that doing so would only decrease cost to the 5% that needed those features while increasing cost to the 95% that did not.

<font color=red>As for 8x AGP it is kinda hard for a graphics company to design the next wave of advance graphics cards when there is no support for the increase bandwidth required. Obviously TrueForm technology from ATI will be much needed in this case and solve the AGP bandwidth problems</font color=red>

Hmm, isn't nvidia a graphics card company? Maybe like number one or two? I really think that if they have an agp8x card planned they would have included it in this chipset. So, unless ATI has such a card planned this is a non-issue.

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!

 

[noko]

With TrueForm it is not an issue for ATI, without TrueForm it will become an issue.

Well to eat your <b>C kie</b> and have it too, gotta get <b>Rade n II</b>

 

[noko]

<A HREF="http://www.ati.com/na/pages/corporate/press/2000/4314.html" target="_new">http://www.ati.com/na/pages/corporate/press/2000/4314.html</A>

<A HREF="http://developer.intel.com/technology/agp/agp_draft9.htm" target="_new">http://developer.intel.com/technology/agp/agp_draft9.htm</A>

Looks like this is going to be an ATI/Intel standard required for the even more advance cards of the future. Intel or ATI chipsets may be the first ones to incorporate the 8x standard.

Well to eat your <b>C kie</b> and have it too, gotta get <b>Rade n II</b>

 

[Ncogneto]

Great another marketing gimmick...AGP 8x Ask any bx user how much they suffer from not being able to run agp4x you will find the decrease in performance non-existant. Why don't we fully implement agp4x before jumping to agp 8x? Current video card bottlenecks exist between the GPU and the video cards memory not the AGP bus itself.

<font color=red> Intel will release the new specification, Rev 0.9, in August 2000.</font color=red>

Furthermore its just a spec nothing more than information on a sheet of paper. So there is no way that the nforce could have implemented it at this date. Besides how can you possibly double quad pump a bus? I thought a quad pumped bus was as much you could go. Is this achieved by simply raising the base bus of the agp slot? We just saw nvidia double the bandwith of the cpu to memory bus. They very well could have something like this in mind for there GPU to video memory bus as well. Unlike earlier post though this is merely speculation. What would the bandwith of a dual channel QDR vieo memory bus be?

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!