MegaCity Denver -- comments and a question

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Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Well, I bought and installed MegaCity Denver. It's kind of fun looking down
at your own neighborhood and other recognizable landmarks.

It's a bit disconcerting when you fly off the edge of the MegaCity scenery:
it's like going off the edge of a huge carpet set out on the landscape.
There are also some strange effects in the mountains, like rectangular
carpets of snow laid out on top of them. I'm working on that to see if
there's something I can do about it, or if this is unavoidable.

The MegaCity installer changes some configuration settings to improve
performance, but one of the changes, to turn off extended terrain effects,
seems to me extremely wrong. I understand that turning it off improves
performance, but one of the important experiences of flying around Denver is
to see the mountains in the distance in a realistic way, but, with extended
terrain effects turned off, the distant mountains look like flat undetailed
cardboard cutouts. Hardly the sort of experience that the MegaCity product
should be providing. In any case, after turning extended terrain effects
back on, I'm satisfied with the performance.

My one question has to do with startup behavior. I've noticed that now that
I've installed MegaCity Denver, it takes almost five minutes to start up
FS2004 and load everything. Has anyone else seen this behavior with a
MegaCity/MegaScenery product, and is there anything I can do to make it
faster?

Thanks.

Wayne
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

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Hi Wayne,

On Fri, 6 May 2005 11:49:01 -0600, you wrote:

> My one question has to do with startup behavior. I've noticed that
> now that I've installed MegaCity Denver, it takes almost five
> minutes to start up FS2004 and load everything. Has anyone else
> seen this behavior with a MegaCity/MegaScenery product, and is
> there anything I can do to make it faster?

I just installed MegaScenery Pacific Northwest two days ago, and I
have mixed feelings about it; though I'm generally happy with it. It
does take a long time to load, but would you rather it take that time
while you're flying? 🙂

During installation, I decided to not allow the installer to adjust
the performance settings, as I would deal with those later if I felt
the need. I'm still experimenting with the various settings, so the
fine tuning continues. Of course, this might also mean that I have
to use one configuration when flying over the MegaScenery areas, and
another for the rest of the world.

Though the MegaScenery PNW makes a big deal about the Seattle scenery,
which is pretty impressive (especially with a bit of altitude), I'm
mostly interested in this particular scenery for the mountains and
coastal area accuracy. Indeed, there are some strikingly accurate
aspects to this scenery (at least in terms of terrain shapes), but
there are some obvious problems as well; perhaps having to do with
conflicts between FSGenesis mesh, or something else entirely. I'll
have to see if I can figure it out. For instance, the Quinault River
valley, and the placement of Lake Quinault is very accurate, and the
ridges surrounding the lake are very realistically shaped; however,
there is a lake elevation problem, causing an "waterfall" the width
of the lake near the eastern shore. Here's a screen shot of this:

http://tinyurl.com/b6p24

http://tinyurl.com/awfbc

But the valley coming into the lake looks very nice:

http://tinyurl.com/75dda

http://tinyurl.com/bakv8

Flying through the mountains, and at some altitude over other areas
can be pretty striking:

http://tinyurl.com/9lfgj

http://tinyurl.com/anu89

http://tinyurl.com/b4nbv

http://tinyurl.com/8w49r

There is much greater geographic detail here at the coast, and it even
shows the little creek that runs along the beach right in front of my
house. At the same time, there are some peculiar anomalies that need
sorting out here as well (like a "ghost" runway from the default MS
scenery that displays while approaching, then dissolves if you try to
land on it).

One more little digression I'd like to explore for a moment...

Though I'm much happier with the water textures I'm able to use after
my hardware upgrades, I'm still not entirely satisfied with water
under various circumstances. I'm wondering if anyone here is using
the payware water enhancement from flight1? If so, do you feel it's
worth the $15 USD over the several freeware water enhancements?

- --
Melissa

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Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Wayne Citrin wrote:
> My one question has to do with startup behavior. I've noticed that
> now that I've installed MegaCity Denver, it takes almost five minutes

Now you know why they turned off extended terrian.............. d:->))
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"CRaSH" <sorry@aint-here.spam.com> wrote in message
news:mtOee.1216$DC2.640@okepread01...
> Wayne Citrin wrote:
>> My one question has to do with startup behavior. I've noticed that
>> now that I've installed MegaCity Denver, it takes almost five minutes
>
> Now you know why they turned off extended terrian.............. d:->))

Ah. I thought extended terrain only affected runtime performance, not load
performance. I'll turn it off and see if it makes a difference. Long
initial load times may be something I have to live with...
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Hi Melissa --

"Lawn Dart" <willkayakforfoodREMOVE_THIS@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:18fjwxodh3907$.dlg@uni-berlin.de...
> I just installed MegaScenery Pacific Northwest two days ago, and I
> have mixed feelings about it; though I'm generally happy with it. It
> does take a long time to load, but would you rather it take that time
> while you're flying? 🙂
>

That's true, and I can always do something else while it's loading.
Besides, ActiveSky already slows down the startup process, so what's another
five minutes?

> During installation, I decided to not allow the installer to adjust
> the performance settings, as I would deal with those later if I felt
> the need. I'm still experimenting with the various settings, so the
> fine tuning continues. Of course, this might also mean that I have
> to use one configuration when flying over the MegaScenery areas, and
> another for the rest of the world.
>

I accepted the adjusted settings. That was a mistake, as I had to back out
of a number of them.

Cool screenshots!

I'll try to post some additional comments in a few days after I've played
around with it some more.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

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Hi Wayne,

On Fri, 6 May 2005 13:43:30 -0600, you wrote:

>> It does take a long time to load, but would you rather it take that
>> time while you're flying? 🙂

> That's true, and I can always do something else while it's loading.
> Besides, ActiveSky already slows down the startup process, so
> what's another five minutes?

Indeed. I think that computers can have a peculiar effect on how we
perceive time. We can become impatient if something takes a few
nanoseconds - or even minutes - longer than we expect it to, and if
we forget that we can be patient, or even do something else as we
wait, we induce stress. The view out my window is very nice (Pacific
surf, framed by trees), so I'll just sit here and look outside (or
step onto the deck for a few minutes to enjoy the air as well). 🙂

> I accepted the adjusted settings. That was a mistake, as I had to
> back out of a number of them.

I was rather suspicious of some of the recommendations, and since I'd
already gotten things working very nicely for most of my other
sceneries, I chose to just deal with the settings myself later if I
felt the need.

> Cool screenshots!

Thanks! I'm really enjoying ActiveSky weather, so be prepared for
more screen shots! 🙂

> I'll try to post some additional comments in a few days after I've
> played around with it some more.

And post some screen shots as well! 🙂

- --
Melissa

PGP Public Keys: http://www.freewebs.com/kuviahunnihautik/

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Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Wayne Citrin"
> I've noticed that now that
> I've installed MegaCity Denver, it takes almost five minutes to start up
> FS2004 and load everything.

Oh great... I just ordered MegaCity DFW yesterday, a five minute start up
would drive me crazy too. :-(

Can you uncheck it in the scenery menu until you intend to use it again?

Dallas
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Dallas wrote:
> "Wayne Citrin"
>> I've noticed that now that
>> I've installed MegaCity Denver, it takes almost five minutes to
>> start up FS2004 and load everything.
>
> Oh great... I just ordered MegaCity DFW yesterday, a five minute
> start up would drive me crazy too. :-(
>
> Can you uncheck it in the scenery menu until you intend to use it
> again?
>
> Dallas

Yeah, if it's like the other MegaScenery stuff, but then you have all the
flip flops in and out of FS/scenery library to get things indexed again with
the Mickey Mouse setup M/S went to....

My Pacific NW scenery took something like 8 or 9 minutes with extended
terrian on, and a mere 3 minutes with it off......
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"CRaSH"
> Yeah, if it's like the other MegaScenery stuff, but then you have all the
> flip flops in and out of FS/scenery library to get things indexed again

Good. I can live with a flip flop or two to kill it... I think I only
bought it to impress the real pilots that come over to play on it. 🙂

Dallas
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Fri, 06 May 2005 18:26:51 GMT, "Dallas"
<Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote:

>Oh great... I just ordered MegaCity DFW yesterday, a five minute start up
>would drive me crazy too. :-(

Sorry to hear about that <hides all facial expressions> DFW = Dallas,
Fort Worth?

My purely personal bug-bear at the moment is that no matter what time
I set my AV to check my PC I always seem to be on final when the virus
checking begins :-(

James
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"James Hodson" <jUNDERSCOREhodson@ntlworld.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:3ren71h5vvbgd0jem2e67alp9b7bd2pe2p@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 06 May 2005 18:26:51 GMT, "Dallas"
> <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote:
>
>>Oh great... I just ordered MegaCity DFW yesterday, a five minute start up
>>would drive me crazy too. :-(
>
> Sorry to hear about that <hides all facial expressions> DFW = Dallas,
> Fort Worth?

The people who do the marketing materials for the MegaCity products seem to
have a problem coming up with copy to make the products enticing. For
example, from the MegaCity Denver box:

".... Sure you can already experience Denver International [Airport] in
default FS2004, but it's just not the same as when you add 3600 square miles
of REAL DENVER SUBURBIA around it."

If I didn't already know the area, somehow I don't think that would sell me
on it. 🙂
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Wayne Citrin" <wcitrin@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:117nha9j2og0341@corp.supernews.com...
> The people who do the marketing materials for the MegaCity products seem
> to have a problem coming up with copy to make the products enticing. For
> example, from the MegaCity Denver box:
>
> ".... Sure you can already experience Denver International [Airport] in
> default FS2004, but it's just not the same as when you add 3600 square
> miles of REAL DENVER SUBURBIA around it."
>
> If I didn't already know the area, somehow I don't think that would sell
> me on it. 🙂

And besides, there's no REAL DENVER SUBURBIA around DIA. There's *nothing*
around DIA. 🙂
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

>
> My purely personal bug-bear at the moment is that no matter what time
> I set my AV to check my PC I always seem to be on final when the virus
> checking begins :-(
>
> James


You could try unchecking Settings/General/Pause on Task Switch

It may help. I have always found that a pain.


--
Cheers,

Quilly











An individual reply goes into my spam filter
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Fri, 6 May 2005 19:06:46 +0000 (UTC), "Quilljar"
<wykehill-flightsim@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>>
>> My purely personal bug-bear at the moment is that no matter what time
>> I set my AV to check my PC I always seem to be on final when the virus
>> checking begins :-(
>
>
>You could try unchecking Settings/General/Pause on Task Switch
>
>It may help. I have always found that a pain.

Ta for that, Quilly.

The problem is that I know - really do know and am entirely aware -
that the AV check is due to start in X minutes but I always believe I
can land in time. But no!

Without firing up FS8 I can't tell you the current status of my
Settings/General/Pause on Task Switch but I shall give the other
option a bash.

At present, I do pause FS8 as soon as I realize that the AV check is
taking place. However, for a few moments after I revert to the
simulator the reactions to my joystick's inputs are extremely
sluggish, with the framerates dancing around all over the place.
Normally this would be OK if I were mid-flight. Naturally, this
framerate hopping (may I say binary Quilling?) does cause a mild panic
when I'm on final :-/

Cheers for now
James
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

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Hi James,

On Fri, 06 May 2005 19:29:45 GMT, you wrote:

> The problem is that I know - really do know and am entirely aware -
> that the AV check is due to start in X minutes but I always believe
> I can land in time. But no!

My preferred method of running the flight sim is to turn all
unnecessary programs/processes/services off while simming. This
means that I also turn off anti-virus, anti-Trojan, anti-spyware,
software firewall, etc. I do keep the PC behind a hardware
firewall/router at all times, and the only Internet connection I deal
with while simming is to get real weather via ActiveSky.

If you know that your system is already "clean" from little nasties,
there really should be no need to run any anti-anything software
while simming; especially scheduled scanning.

- --
Melissa

PGP Public Keys: http://www.freewebs.com/kuviahunnihautik/

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Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Lawn Dart" <
> My preferred method of running the flight sim is to turn all
> unnecessary programs/processes/services off while simming.


I installed FSAutoStart and set it all up carefully and tested it for a
week. I quit using it... it made no difference at all.


Dallas
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Wayne Citrin"
> example, from the MegaCity Denver box:

This is my first "boxed" product since the early 90s.... I was kinda miffed
about having to pay $6 shipping for a silly assed CD. And that's UPS
ground... which is slow. Every time I've mailed a CD in the US post, it
cost around a buck and got there in 2 days.

I've been spoiled by downloading.


Dallas
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Fri, 6 May 2005 12:37:33 -0700, Lawn Dart
<willkayakforfoodREMOVE_THIS@gmx.net> wrote:

>> The problem is that I know - really do know and am entirely aware -
>> that the AV check is due to start in X minutes but I always believe
>> I can land in time. But no!
>
>My preferred method of running the flight sim is to turn all
>unnecessary programs/processes/services off while simming. This
>means that I also turn off anti-virus, anti-Trojan, anti-spyware,
>software firewall, etc. I do keep the PC behind a hardware
>firewall/router at all times, and the only Internet connection I deal
>with while simming is to get real weather via ActiveSky.
>
>If you know that your system is already "clean" from little nasties,
>there really should be no need to run any anti-anything software
>while simming; especially scheduled scanning.

Hi Melissa

My own PC is also clean; at least, that's what my AV prog (I've tried
several) tells me. Of course, a truly nasty "nasty" would instruct the
AV software to report that everything was OK and tell the firewall
(just ZoneAlarm in my case - I've used others in the past) that no
intrusions had been successful.

I have read in this NG about a program that switches off most
unnecessary applications and have often thought about investigating
further. Do you recall the app's name? Clean start or something?

My own link to the wider world is via a cable and and my "stuff" -
phone, TV and internet (2mbps) - comes via this pipe. My MODEM is, in
fact, inside my TV's set top box. So, I have an ethernet connection
from my PC to my TV. Turning off my PC's link to ouside is most simple
(right click, disable) as it turning it on again is equally easy (I
have a shortcut set up on my desktop). So, no excuse really.

However, I'm more wary about disabling XP's services as I'm not
entirely sure what they all do or what effect turning some off will
have. I do almost always do a soft reboot before simming.

BTW, I recently found an e-mail of yours, one you sent about six weeks
ago. Eudora's filters (OK, admittedly my fault) had plonked into the
"wrong" mailbox. Sorry for having missed it and for not replying.

Thanks for the info.
Cheers and regards
James
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Wayne Citrin" <wcitrin@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:117nicedhen1q53@corp.supernews.com...
> "Wayne Citrin" <wcitrin@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:117nha9j2og0341@corp.supernews.com...
>> The people who do the marketing materials for the MegaCity products seem
>> to have a problem coming up with copy to make the products enticing. For
>> example, from the MegaCity Denver box:
>>
>> ".... Sure you can already experience Denver International [Airport] in
>> default FS2004, but it's just not the same as when you add 3600 square
>> miles of REAL DENVER SUBURBIA around it."
>>
>> If I didn't already know the area, somehow I don't think that would sell
>> me on it. 🙂
>
> And besides, there's no REAL DENVER SUBURBIA around DIA. There's
> *nothing* around DIA. 🙂

That's true! When we landed from KORD last year I could barely see the
terminal (great building).
KDEN is one hell of a size!
Loved the city; we both thought we could happily live there and as for the
scenery to the west...
So good in fact we return in September to see more of Colorado and visit
Utah.

There was an amusing dialogue on Megascenery's forum recently from a guy who
also lives there complaining about why everything looked brown!
The publishers pointed out that the photos were taken in the summer.....

Chris
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Chris Curtis" <newsgroup@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:W_GdnTrLAZ2AeubfRVnyvA@pipex.net...
> There was an amusing dialogue on Megascenery's forum recently from a guy
> who also lives there complaining about why everything looked brown!
> The publishers pointed out that the photos were taken in the summer.....

It's interesting. When I was flying over our neighborhood in Boulder, my
wife was looking over my shoulder and said "that's fall scenery." I think
you're right though -- it's late summer, when everything has turned brown.
Too bad they didn't take the photos around now, when everything is green (as
opposed to last week, when everything was white, after a late spring
snowstorm that dumped about a foot of snow -- all gone now, and it's shorts
and t-shirts weather 🙂.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Fri, 06 May 2005 21:56:42 GMT, "Dallas"
<Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote:

>> My preferred method of running the flight sim is to turn all
>> unnecessary programs/processes/services off while simming.
>
>
>I installed FSAutoStart and set it all up carefully and tested it for a
>week. I quit using it... it made no difference at all.

Hi Dalli

I've just flown at least part of the flight I mentioned before - had
to stop to play poker (free game, I must say).

All I did was to reboot (as also already mentioned) and immediately
enter FS8. However, I did reduce the ATC automatic traffic (or
whatever it's called) from about 90% to 50%, and that made the world
of a difference.

In fact, the change was great enough to cause me priblems with my
joystick: I was over-moving it.

Still, my simming life certainly is/was better, which was nice! 🙂

Cheers
James
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Same here. Just tried it this weekend and got exactly the same frame rates.

Take care,

Tom

Dallas wrote:
> "Lawn Dart" <
>
>>My preferred method of running the flight sim is to turn all
>>unnecessary programs/processes/services off while simming.
>
>
>
> I installed FSAutoStart and set it all up carefully and tested it for a
> week. I quit using it... it made no difference at all.
>
>
> Dallas
>
>
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

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Hi Tom,

On Mon, 09 May 2005 11:48:24 -0700, you wrote:

First, Dallas wrote:

>> I installed FSAutoStart and set it all up carefully and tested it
>> for a week. I quit using it... it made no difference at all.

> Same here. Just tried it this weekend and got exactly the same
> frame rates.

It's not just about frame rates. Think also about memory
usage/availability, and how this affects various bits of the overall
sim experience.

Try this:

Run as many programs as you can, then try to run the sim. You may
well get an error message saying that you don't have enough memory
available to run the program at all (the only choice is to press
"OK", and the sim won't even bother to load). If even fairly robust
systems can run up against a wall like this, think about how reducing
memory usage as much as possible might help in the other direction.

Frame rates alone are only worth thinking about to a certain degree
(as long as movement is smooth, that's a good thing), but there are
many other aspects of running a demanding program like the flight sim
that require as much as possible of the available system resources.

As a primarily "low and slow" simmer, with lots of close-up "eye
candy" sceneries to be concerned with, and somewhat demanding
detailed plane/VC models, I need to do everything I can to give the
sim as much of the system's resources as possible; and removing as
many programs/processes/services from memory as I can is quite
necessary.

Perhaps if someone flies a "heavy" at 35,000 feet, there's not much
demand for detailed ground scenery generation at every moment, and
memory usage might not be such an issue. My computer may be much
improved from where it was a month ago, but it's still no "super"
gaming computer by today's standards, and I do notice positive
differences when I free up as much memory as possible before running
the sim.

By the way, with the recent addition of MegaScenery PNW, my fs9 HD
space usage is up to about 36 GB! Eek! 🙂

- --
Melissa

PGP Public Keys: http://www.freewebs.com/kuviahunnihautik/

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Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Hi Melissa,

Thanks for your comments. I have 2 GB of memory, so this usually isn't
a big problem for me. I also usually run a pretty lean computer system.
I just thought I'd try it and see if it made any difference and it
didn't. At KLAX, known to drag frame rates down, I was getting 20
without it, and 20 with it. It was good to know that I didn't have
anything running in the background that was dragging things down, though.

To be honest, I am usually developing things, not flying, and have
somewhere between 1 and 5 large programs running at the same time (GMAX,
SceneGenX, FSDS, PSP, DXTBmp, Ground2K4, ASD, etc.). Then frame rate is
not an issue of course. :)

Tom


Lawn Dart wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: RIPEMD160
>
> Hi Tom,
>
> On Mon, 09 May 2005 11:48:24 -0700, you wrote:
>
> First, Dallas wrote:
>
>
>>>I installed FSAutoStart and set it all up carefully and tested it
>>>for a week. I quit using it... it made no difference at all.
>>
>
>>Same here. Just tried it this weekend and got exactly the same
>>frame rates.
>
>
> It's not just about frame rates. Think also about memory
> usage/availability, and how this affects various bits of the overall
> sim experience.
>
> Try this:
>
> Run as many programs as you can, then try to run the sim. You may
> well get an error message saying that you don't have enough memory
> available to run the program at all (the only choice is to press
> "OK", and the sim won't even bother to load). If even fairly robust
> systems can run up against a wall like this, think about how reducing
> memory usage as much as possible might help in the other direction.
>
> Frame rates alone are only worth thinking about to a certain degree
> (as long as movement is smooth, that's a good thing), but there are
> many other aspects of running a demanding program like the flight sim
> that require as much as possible of the available system resources.
>
> As a primarily "low and slow" simmer, with lots of close-up "eye
> candy" sceneries to be concerned with, and somewhat demanding
> detailed plane/VC models, I need to do everything I can to give the
> sim as much of the system's resources as possible; and removing as
> many programs/processes/services from memory as I can is quite
> necessary.
>
> Perhaps if someone flies a "heavy" at 35,000 feet, there's not much
> demand for detailed ground scenery generation at every moment, and
> memory usage might not be such an issue. My computer may be much
> improved from where it was a month ago, but it's still no "super"
> gaming computer by today's standards, and I do notice positive
> differences when I free up as much memory as possible before running
> the sim.
>
> By the way, with the recent addition of MegaScenery PNW, my fs9 HD
> space usage is up to about 36 GB! Eek! 🙂
>
> - --
> Melissa
>
> PGP Public Keys: http://www.freewebs.com/kuviahunnihautik/
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> iQCVAwUBQn+79TEYqNTZBqoEAQNBkAP/SLhMq8CohV8Qib9Ik3WQDlfjqEVU2/J4
> wDP2eBst4nYb8sGnRIQ0802Fx9FLkPJI4JucMUSAKELEFdq776iIrHshveQbSCTI
> KiRRl6rpB9K/oerbJYIHifC+GvQOH7KI/1t2GHXc7E3TkH/c9mRQ/Ld3qYs5WDWd
> ePp5C/+MBCY=
> =K6gm
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Tom Gibson" <noway@nohow.com> wrote in message
news:427FB078.9050005@nohow.com...
> Same here. Just tried it this weekend and got exactly the same frame
> rates.

I use FSAuto start and have found that even though the frame rates are no
different it does seem to prevent the occasional stutter I was getting which
I think were caused by background running services. Just my two cents worth
(or as we say in the UK "two pennyworth"!) :0))

Iain
 
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