[SOLVED] Memory not at correct speed

[Sharkonabicycle]

Hello All,

I have a question on my memory. I recently built my new computer and ordered two 2x8GB (32 total) memory kits. The memory is on the approved vendor list for my motherboard but I think it was a 16x2 (not 8x4). Still, the memory CAS timing, speed, and brand is approved.

I went into my BIOS and went to AI tweaker and set the BIOS to DOCP and it picked up the memory at 3600 mhz and the correct CAS timing (17-18-18-18) at 1.35v. However, when I restarted the system, it restarted a few times, I got a safe mode message, and the BIOS went back to default settings of 2,133 mhz at 1.45 volts if I recall. I disabled DOCP, restarted, and the system runs stable at that.

That said, any thoughts? Should I not use DOCP or try a lower mhz? When I changed to DOCP I had changed the timing manually earlier instead of Auto so maybe there was a conflict with another change I made. Perhaps it's worth trying again if it seems very odd to someone more experienced why this is not working. System specs are below:

Motherboard: ASUS ROG STRIX x570 E Gaming (supports up to 128gb)
CPU: AMD Ryzen 5900x (not OC'd at the moment, stock)
Memory: G.Skill Trident Z RGB Series 16GB (2 x 8GB, bought 2, so 32 total, all 4 memory slots used) 288-Pin SDRAM (PC4-28800) DDR4 3600 CL17-18-18-38 1.35V
SSD: 980 PRO NVME M2 main, 970 storage.
PSU: EVGA SuperNova G6 1000w
OS: Windows 10
BIOS Version: Latest 4021 (latest off ASUS) - all drivers for motherboard/chipset up to date.
GPU: EVGA FTW ULTRA 3090 RTX

Tried a few games last night, installation of various drivers/browsing, apps, etc. Everything runs stable with no BSODs, etc., but I'd like to get a bit more speed out of the memory that I paid for. I know with memory you can manually override and try tweaking up a little at a time until it runs stable, but I'd like to get thoughts before playing around with things.

 

[kanewolf]

Hello All,

I have a question on my memory. I recently built my new computer and ordered two 2x8GB (32 total) memory kits. The memory is on the approved vendor list for my motherboard but I think it was a 16x2 (not 8x4). Still, the memory CAS timing, speed, and brand is approved.

I went into my BIOS and went to AI tweaker and set the BIOS to DOCP and it picked up the memory at 3600 mhz and the correct CAS timing (17-18-18-18) at 1.35v. However, when I restarted the system, it restarted a few times, I got a safe mode message, and the BIOS went back to default settings of 2,133 mhz at 1.45 volts if I recall. I disabled DOCP, restarted, and the system runs stable at that.

That said, any thoughts? Should I not use DOCP or try a lower mhz? When I changed to DOCP I had changed the timing manually earlier instead of Auto so maybe there was a conflict with another change I made. Perhaps it's worth trying again if it seems very odd to someone more experienced why this is not working. System specs are below:

Motherboard: ASUS ROG STRIX x570 E Gaming (supports up to 128gb)
CPU: AMD Ryzen 5900x (not OC'd at the moment, stock)
Memory: G.Skill Trident Z RGB Series 16GB (2 x 8GB, bought 2, so 32 total, all 4 memory slots used) 288-Pin SDRAM (PC4-28800) DDR4 3600 CL17-18-18-38 1.35V
SSD: 980 PRO NVME M2 main, 970 storage.
PSU: EVGA SuperNova G6 1000w
OS: Windows 10
BIOS Version: Latest 4021 (latest off ASUS) - all drivers for motherboard/chipset up to date.
GPU: EVGA FTW ULTRA 3090 RTX

Tried a few games last night, installation of various drivers/browsing, apps, etc. Everything runs stable with no BSODs, etc., but I'd like to get a bit more speed out of the memory that I paid for. I know with memory you can manually override and try tweaking up a little at a time until it runs stable, but I'd like to get thoughts before playing around with things.

Any time you mix-and-match RAM there is no guarantee that it will function at maximum clock speed. They make matched sets for a reason. They have been tested as a set and guaranteed to work at advertised speeds.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Any time you mix-and-match RAM there is no guarantee that it will function at maximum clock speed. They make matched sets for a reason. They have been tested as a set and guaranteed to work at advertised speeds.

Hmm, so even though I bought two 2x8GB kits that are the exact same it may not work? I literally need to go buy a 2x16gb kit of that same exact brand? Seems a little odd but perhaps that's the case.

If I can't get it running at the DOCP settings, can I try increasing it at all, manually? Or am I stuck with what it auto detected?

 

[RARRAF]

what I would do is make sure the bios is on the latest version you can get from asus. Then set the ram to 3600mhz in the bios not DOCP then make sure it works then try DOCP again. But do remember DOCP is overclocking all components.

 

[kanewolf]

Hmm, so even though I bought two 2x8GB kits that are the exact same it may not work? I literally need to go buy a 2x16gb kit of that same exact brand? Seems a little odd but perhaps that's the case.

If I can't get it running at the DOCP settings, can I try increasing it at all, manually? Or am I stuck with what it auto detected?

Yes, you can try manual settings. A couple hundredths of a volt in RAM voltage is a common thing to do. So if the DOCP is 1.35V (common) then you might try 1.37V for example.
You could also look at the RAM timings in CPU-Z to see if there is a 3200 set of timings.

what I would do is make sure the bios is on the latest version you can get from asus. Then set the ram to 3600mhz in the bios not DOCP then make sure it works then try DOCP again. But do remember DOCP is overclocking all components.

Remember that higher memory clock speed is not just clock. It is also voltage. @RARRAF didn't mention that.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

And actually, it literally shows the exact same memory on the approved list (I guess C17Q instead of C17D, but all other settings are the same, and obviously the board supports 4x8 GB sticks at that voltage/brand/timing):

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/pj...b-4-x-8gb-ddr4-3600-memory-f4-3600c17q-32gtzr

https://pcpartpicker.com/products/memory/?compatible_with=CLkgXL#m=17&sort=-speed&Z=32768004

@kanewolf @RARRAF

I will try setting it manually, and RAR the BIOS is the latest (as of Nov 2021). I actually had to update it via the Motherboard feature to even get the computer to boot (new one on me). Do I just need to set the memory to 3600 mhz and the voltage to 1.35 per the memory specs? Or do I need to try and update CAS timings, etc. Not really used to tweaking memory and the ROG STRIX BIOS has a lot of fields in it. Happy to take a picture and share on here.

 

[RARRAF]

I would try just using the default bios settings at 3600 no DOCP just select ram and 3600
if not then try upping the voltage as kanewolf stated should work.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

I would try just using the default bios settings at 3600 no DOCP just select ram and 3600
if not then try upping the voltage as kanewolf stated should work.

Alright, thanks. I'll give it a try later today or tomorrow.

 

[gskill support]

With DOCP enabled, manually adjust and try DDR4-3200 16-18-18-38 1.35V; if that can work, try 3400 with same timings and Voltage. Check CPU SoC Voltage if the system is stable as you may need to manually increase along with DRAM Voltage to stabilize a higher DRAM Frequency.

Let us know how it goes.

 

[Karadjgne]

Hmm, so even though I bought two 2x8GB kits that are the exact same it may not work?

They aren't the exact same. Each kit is, but that's as far as that goes. Under the heatsink is silicon chiplets soldered to a pcb. Silicon is never 100% pure, so will contain impurities. It's those impurities that have a large affect on the secondary and tertiary timings, the 40+ timings you don't see in cpu-z etc.

The factory has thousands of sticks to mix and match to get a compatible kit, but that doesn't mean that that kit is compatible with any other. You can buy the exact same looking kit, from the same store, on the same day, from the same shelf, 1 kit right next to another, and they can be totally incompatible.

The paint job on the outside, the shape of the heatsink, the primary timings, speeds, voltages, brands, model numbers etc has absolutely nothing to do with compatibility, only whether the impurities and their affect on the silicon does.

If the above advice doesn't work, you can try Thaiphoon Burner, it'll give you the timings of the seperate kits, and try manually setting the higher numbers from both.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

They aren't the exact same. Each kit is, but that's as far as that goes. Under the heatsink is silicon chiplets soldered to a pcb. Silicon is never 100% pure, so will contain impurities. It's those impurities that have a large affect on the secondary and tertiary timings, the 40+ timings you don't see in cpu-z etc.

The factory has thousands of sticks to mix and match to get a compatible kit, but that doesn't mean that that kit is compatible with any other. You can buy the exact same looking kit, from the same store, on the same day, from the same shelf, 1 kit right next to another, and they can be totally incompatible.

The paint job on the outside, the shape of the heatsink, the primary timings, speeds, voltages, brands, model numbers etc has absolutely nothing to do with compatibility, only whether the impurities and their affect on the silicon does.

If the above advice doesn't work, you can try Thaiphoon Burner, it'll give you the timings of the seperate kits, and try manually setting the higher numbers from both.

That's really interesting. I'm certainly not an expert in memory (usually just jam the sticks in and call it a day, bit more in tune with GPUs, Processors).

Well, I've been running quite happily at the stock speed and got stable boots by manually upping a bit, but nothing close to what the original timings read. When and if I need to upgrade, I will be certainly more mindful of buying a fully tested kit/package instead of buying 2 separate ones with the info you've provided. I had no idea it worked that way.

 

[Karadjgne]

Yep. If you peel the thin tin 'heatsink' of your ram, what you'll have will look exactly like the 'value' ram. Green pcb with some chiplets stuck to it on one or both sides. The heatsink is typically just there for bling, for manufacturers to display their brand.

But just like anything else made from silicon, like cpus or gpus or Sata chips etc, each is punched from a larger sheet. The sheets are spun silicon, so the centers of the sheet are typically more pure, the outer edges being more full with impurities.

Depending on who manufactured the sheets, where the silicon came from originally, the refining process etc will determine what impuries are present. The impurities affect voltage, current and resistance, if there's trace gold or silver etc, that'll be more conductive, if it's lead or carbon then less so and more resistive.

Compliant kits are generally made up from the same batch, the individual serial numbers most likely being consecutive or close. When mixing kits, you get a different batch, different sheet of silicon, different impurities and levels, different behaviors. Mixing a high gold kit with a high lead kit will likely get you the proverbial middle finger.

And then someone glues on a painted heatsink. There's only half a dozen ram OEMs, and they make ram for a hundred different Vendors, same ram, different heatsink. You could use a stick of SkHynix based Patriot ram and a stick of SkHynix based Corsair ram, and it's physically possible they came from the exact same batch, same sheet. Astronomically highly unlikely, but possible.

 

[kerberos_20]

hi, for 3600MHz on ryzen, set following voltages
vcore soc - 1.2v
vddg ccd - 1.1v
vddg iod - 1.0v
you can lower them later on if its stable, but voltages should be enough for infinity fabric at 1800~1900MHz (depends on cpu sample)