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Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Questions always questions....whats the difference between "mesh" and
"scenery"
thanks
Bob
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Mesh is the fabric of the planet, basically all the stuff which gives the
planet form and shape whether mountains, hills or flatland, scenery is the
pretty stuff which sits on top of it and that can be divided down to
landclass files which make cities etc.. recognisable as such, or airports,
or even AFCAD files.

"Bob Devereaux" <rldead@charter.net> wrote in message
news:wkA8e.1920$Gq6.1886@fe02.lga...
> Questions always questions....whats the difference between "mesh" and
> "scenery"
> thanks
> Bob
>
>
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Bob Devereaux" wrote:

> Questions always questions....whats the difference between "mesh" and
> "scenery"

Canuck told you the facts. You do well, by using them (scenery and mesh)
together. Some scenery-packs may include a mesh for the area, like Lago's
Budapest, for example.

Adding addon-sceneries can cause problems and most of them need a
manual editing of the configuration file (scenery.cfg).

You will soon have some questions about layers and priorities ;-)

Jan
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Thanks much. I've found that every answer in life leads to more questions!
Guess thats what makes it interesting.
Bob
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

> You will soon have some questions about layers and priorities.

Guten Tag Jan & Canuck
Please some explaing words about layers and priorities.

> stuff which sits on top of it and that can be divided down to
> landclass files which make cities etc.. recognisable as such, or airports,
> or even AFCAD files.

What about 'dynamic scenery'
Moving airport gates, taxying or flying aircraft, are these dynamic
landclasses?
What else?

Please an example for AFCAD file present in default FS9.

Thanks, Günter
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Günter Mangold" wrote:

> Guten Tag Jan & Canuck
> Please some explaing words about layers and priorities.

I would like to explain it to you, but it's to hard for me, to
do it in english. If the others don't mind, i would rather do
it in german language. You are german, aren't you?

> What about 'dynamic scenery'

Dynamic scenery is any moving part of scenery, from
chimney-smoke to moving gates or cars on the Scenery
But taxying or flying aircrafts are traffic and not dynamic
scenery.

> Moving airport gates, taxying or flying aircraft, are these dynamic
> landclasses?

landclasses are just informations for the landscape-engine, where
to draw buldings (cities), grass, sand, forest and so on.

> Please an example for AFCAD file present in default FS9.

I'm not shure at this point. As far as i know, AFCAD's are
informations for AI-aircrafts, where to park, taxi or takeoff/land
on the airports.

Jan
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

To furthur expand on Jan's answer....AFCAD relates to the arrangement of
parking spaces etc at all airports. Its a simple graphics program by Lee
Swordy which is a terrific help when you want to reconstruct the layout of
an airport. You can find it at AVSIM.....AFCAD 2.21

Bob
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Bob Devereaux" <rldead@charter.net> wrote in news:wkA8e.1920$Gq6.1886
@fe02.lga:

> Questions always questions....whats the difference between "mesh" and
> "scenery"
> thanks

Scenery is everything you can see on your display, except for your
aircraft and AI aircraft. Scenery can broadly be classed as
environment, objects, and terrain. (Note that in FS9, there is
some convergence between scenery and aircraft objects, except for the
2D panel).

"Mesh" is a term used to describe the geometry of scenery elements.
The geometry is composed of primitive elements (vertices, edges,
and polygons -- primarily triangles) which are manipulated by the
scenery engine and projected onto the 2D display, then rendered using
color, lighting, and texture (material) data.

Commonly, the geometry of objects in FS is discussed in terms of
"model", while the geometry of terrain is discussed as "mesh".
(I don't play with environment, so I don't know how clouds, sun,
moon, sky, etc are modeled.)

Mesh is derived from input files built by a tool called "resample".
The input files consist of logical 2-dimensional arrays with each
array element representing an earth elevation. The scale between
points determines the resolution of the elevation points and the
accuracy of the data. Resample forces the data into predetermined
resolutions called LOD. Thus, a converted mesh input file that
has been resampled to LOD level 10, can also be described as
having 38m resolution. FS takes this data and computes the graphics
primitives from it. As part of this process, (and as modified by
FS9.cfg) FS will reduce the resolution of the mesh data thereby reducing
the number of graphics primitives that the graphics card must handle.

Note that at present, the best terrain resolution attainable in FS is
about 4.75m. Objects can have higher resolution, and hence when super-
high resolution is required, designers must use object-based tools.

It should be remembered that the resolution is not really described in
meters (this is a convenience for description purposes) but rather in
angular measurement of lat and long. Because of the convergence of
lines of longitude at the poles, this can cause some display problems
at high latitudes (> 80 degrees).

scott s.
..
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Bob Devereaux" <rldead@charter.net> wrote in
news:mnQ8e.2785$f6.2536@fe04.lga:

> To furthur expand on Jan's answer....AFCAD relates to the arrangement
> of parking spaces etc at all airports. Its a simple graphics program
> by Lee Swordy which is a terrific help when you want to reconstruct
> the layout of an airport. You can find it at AVSIM.....AFCAD 2.21

AFCAD for FS9 operates on a set of files having filenames of the
form AP9xxyy0.BGL, where xx and yy are integers which define the
geographic location of the
file on the globe. These files are constructed using the new (for FS9)
object tool bglcomp, which takes as input XML formatted files.
Unfortunately, AFCAD is only able to edit a subset of the data in the
AP file, and hence AFCAD can break your airport if used haphazardly.
When used for its traditional purpose (controlling AI aircraft)
AFCAD works well. When used for new purposes (creating scenery objects)
AFCAD can cause problems. Deleting or renaming runways is one way to
screw things up. Another is to change the altitude.

If you run AFCAD, it will search through all files in your FS9 install
looking for airport data, cataloging all the AP files, as well as other
files with appropriate header info (such as addon scenery). When you
open a stock airport in AFCAD, you can go to file -> properties and it
will show you the filename of the AP file that contains it. AFCAD does
not directly edit the AP files (as it did in FS2002 with AFD files).
Instead it uses the scenery library layer feature to create a new file
(just for one airport) that deletes data from the lower priority
layers (including the layer containing the AP file and any other file
containing data for this airport) and replaces the data with data from
the new file. Data which is not deleted from the lower priority layers
continues to be used. Read the help for AFCAD closely to understand
what it will and won't do with ILSs, NDBs, VORs, and Markers.

An alternative (and possible better tool if you need to do more than
adjust AI aircraft features) is scenegenx.

scott s.
..
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Thanks all for explanations

@ scott

(You see me chewing;-)

>.... (Note that in FS9, there is
> some convergence between scenery and aircraft objects, except for the
> 2D panel).

Parking a/c hovering above or below GND shows missing convergence between
scenery and
aircraft objects within default FS9 - did I understand correctly?

> Note that at present, the best terrain resolution attainable in FS is
> about 4.75m

4.75m is a typo?!?!

@ Jan, bitte in Deutsch
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Günter Mangold" <guenter.mangold@t-online.de> wrote in
news:d427jv$o6n$04$1@news.t-online.com:

> Thanks all for explanations
>
> @ scott
>
> (You see me chewing;-)
>
>>.... (Note that in FS9, there is
>> some convergence between scenery and aircraft objects, except for the
>> 2D panel).
>
> Parking a/c hovering above or below GND shows missing convergence
> between scenery and
> aircraft objects within default FS9 - did I understand correctly?

No. What I mean is that there is a tool -- makemdl that can take
aircraft models and sceerny object models produced by the GMax
design program and create FS -compatible .mdl geometry files.
But there are some differences (aircraft can use alpha for reflections
while objects use it for transparency). As you note, FS uses some
internal calculations to determine "ground level" when placing
aircraft into the scenery.

>> Note that at present, the best terrain resolution attainable in FS is
>> about 4.75m
>
> 4.75m is a typo?!?!

No. But curently, mesh cannot be displayed at that level. Polygons
can be placed on the mesh with this accuracy.
>
> @ Jan, bitte in Deutsch

I grew up in southeast Wisconsin, USA, which is heavily German (one
of my Grandmothers was a "Hahn") but don't know German language.

scott s.
..
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Günter Mangold" schrieb:

> @ Jan, bitte in Deutsch

Ok, no veto so far, here we go:

Hallo Günter,

Wenn man eine neue Szenerie installiert, dann wird diese Umgebung
sozusagen auf die Grundumgebung des FS9 "aufgetragen". das wäre
dann ein neuer Layer. Also eine neue Schicht. Wenn du jetzt im selben
Gebiet noch eine andere Szenerie installierst, wird wieder eine neue
Schicht aufgetragen.
Dabei werden natürlich die anderen Schichten (Layer) wieder mit
neuen Informationen bedeckt und damit unsichtbar. Jetzt musst du
entscheiden, welche Szenerie-Schicht, ganz nach oben soll und damit
gänzlich sichtbar bleibt..
Logischerweise werden große Szenerien, wie z.B. Mehses für ein
ganzes Land oder einen ganzen Continent ganz nach unten verschoben
(niedrige Priorität) und kleinere wie z.B. Flughäfen oder Brücken ganz
nach oben (hohe Priorität). Die Priorität wird in den Szenerie-Einstellungen
im FS vorgegeben, es gibt aber auch gute Tools, mit denen das sehr
viel einfacher geht.

Hoffe du hast mich verstanden, ich hab auch etws Zeit gebraucht um
das richtig zu verstehen, aber dann ist es ganz einfach 🙂

Gruß,
Jan
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

> neuen Informationen bedeckt und damit unsichtbar. Jetzt musst du
> entscheiden, welche Szenerie-Schicht, ganz nach oben soll und damit
> gänzlich sichtbar bleibt..

Thanks Jan & Scott

Bei mir belegt FS GLOBAL 2005 Priorität 1 bis 6
und die einzige Addon Scenery (skyline_ffm) P 7.

Wenn ich richtig verstehe müßte die Mesh nun das Addon verdecken.
Ich 'sehe' aber die skyline trotzdem.
Wie das?

Is there a link to a good compendium covering the whole matter?

Günter
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Günter Mangold" schrieb:

> Bei mir belegt FS GLOBAL 2005 Priorität 1 bis 6
> und die einzige Addon Scenery (skyline_ffm) P 7.
>
> Wenn ich richtig verstehe müßte die Mesh nun das Addon verdecken.
> Ich 'sehe' aber die skyline trotzdem.
> Wie das?

Du hast richtig verstanden, aber das Mesh hat ja keine Daten an der Stelle,
die
das Addon verdecken würden.

Ein vielleicht besseres Beispiel:

Wenn Du eine Szenerie installierts, die z.B. NUR den Tower des Berliner
Flughafens Tegel beinhaltet, dann aber noch eine Scenery für den kompletten
Flughafen Tegel, mit höherer Priorität, dann wäre die "nur-Tower Szenerie"
nicht
sichtbar.

Gibts du dann aber der "nur-Tower Szenerie" die höhere Priorität (weil der
Tower in dieser Szenerie vielleicht viel besser gemacht ist), dann passt's
wieder.

> Is there a link to a good compendium covering the whole matter?

I don't know any and I've searched a lot.

Gruß,
Jan
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Good starting point,

http://fly-heather.avsim.net/index.html




"Jan Berg" <jan@epost.de> wrote in message
news:d42qfr$3se$00$1@news.t-online.com...
> "Günter Mangold" schrieb:
>
>> Bei mir belegt FS GLOBAL 2005 Priorität 1 bis 6
>> und die einzige Addon Scenery (skyline_ffm) P 7.
>>
>> Wenn ich richtig verstehe müßte die Mesh nun das Addon verdecken.
>> Ich 'sehe' aber die skyline trotzdem.
>> Wie das?
>
> Du hast richtig verstanden, aber das Mesh hat ja keine Daten an der
> Stelle, die
> das Addon verdecken würden.
>
> Ein vielleicht besseres Beispiel:
>
> Wenn Du eine Szenerie installierts, die z.B. NUR den Tower des Berliner
> Flughafens Tegel beinhaltet, dann aber noch eine Scenery für den
> kompletten
> Flughafen Tegel, mit höherer Priorität, dann wäre die "nur-Tower Szenerie"
> nicht
> sichtbar.
>
> Gibts du dann aber der "nur-Tower Szenerie" die höhere Priorität (weil der
> Tower in dieser Szenerie vielleicht viel besser gemacht ist), dann passt's
> wieder.
>
>> Is there a link to a good compendium covering the whole matter?
>
> I don't know any and I've searched a lot.
>
> Gruß,
> Jan
>
 
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