Question Metal roof and outdoor wireless access positioning

[rbstern]

I'm setting up a small compound that will include a 12x20 shed, used as an office, and an RV, used as a temporary living quarters. Internet on the property is via 1gbps fiber. The fiber router is about 500' away, in another structure. I plan to use a pair of Ubiquiti Litebeam Gen2's as a bridge between the fiber router and a POE network switch in the shed. For wireless coverage of the shed and the RV in the compound, I plan to mount a TP-Link EAP610 outdoor WAP, on the side of the shed between it and the RV. The shed and RV are only about 20' apart, so the signal coverage should be adequate both inside the shed and RV.

The shed has a metal roof. I want to maximize outside area coverage in compound (approx. 1 acre clearing in the woods), while not compromising signal inside the shed.

My question: Do I mount the WAP on a mast above the level of the roof? If so, will the signal have trouble penetrating into the shed? Would I be better off with the WAP directly mounted on the side of the shed, below the roofline?

 

[bill001g]

I suspect this is a trial an error project.

The key is you need to mount the wifi high enough so things do not block it. If we ignore the complex topic of ground reflections interfering as long as you have clear line of sight to the AP from everywhere then that is the height that is optimum. I guess it depends on if someone would park a large truck in from the of AP.

Even if you mount it above the roof line the signal will bounce around and still come in wherever it can. That is the key to how things like mimo work, they depend on the signals having slightly different paths/delays to allow them to overlap the signals.

 

[rbstern]

Appreciate the insight. I put a Wifi analyzer on my phone and will do some measurements. Not hard to vary the height of the install.

 

[bill001g]

Worst case you put another AP inside the shed. I assume you are already running the PoE for the equipment from inside anyway.

 

[nigelivey]

Why not use the Nanobeam 5 AC, they have a secondary LAN port with POE passthrough, connect your AP directly to it.

 

[rbstern]

Worst case you put another AP inside the shed. I assume you are already running the PoE for the equipment from inside anyway.

Yes, that would work, altough I can't imagine a Wifi 6 antenna, at max 25 to 30' distant, won't provide at least a reasonable signal inside the two structures. I guess we'll see.

 

[rbstern]

Why not use the Nanobeam 5 AC, they have a secondary LAN port with POE passthrough, connect your AP directly to it.

Thanks for the suggestion.

The passthrough wouldn't gain me anything. The slave PTP Litebeam on the compound side will actually be on a post, about 200 feet away, fed by a buried CAT6. That will give it clear line of sight to the fiber router side Litebeam. The POE switch will be positioned in the shed, about 12' from where the EAP610 is going to be mounted.

Also, my recent experience with ax devices has me impressed enough to stop investing in ac devices. I've got three ax routers running in various spots, and have phased out all of my ac routers. The switch to ax improved signal quality and bandwidth availability everyplace I made that change.

 

[bill001g]

Yes, that would work, altough I can't imagine a Wifi 6 antenna, at max 25 to 30' distant, won't provide at least a reasonable signal inside the two structures. I guess we'll see.

What blocks wifi can be bizarre. They put a energy window film on the glass where I used to work. We soon had complaints the wifi no longer worked in the parking lot. You could stand next to the glass and see the AP not more than 5ft away on the ceiling and get almost no signal. Open a door and you get very strong signal.
Management decided it was a good thing and we ended up putting in a outdoor ap that covered only the outdoor eating area near the cafe.

 

[kanewolf]

I'm setting up a small compound that will include a 12x20 shed, used as an office, and an RV, used as a temporary living quarters. Internet on the property is via 1gbps fiber. The fiber router is about 500' away, in another structure. I plan to use a pair of Ubiquiti Litebeam Gen2's as a bridge between the fiber router and a POE network switch in the shed. For wireless coverage of the shed and the RV in the compound, I plan to mount a TP-Link EAP610 outdoor WAP, on the side of the shed between it and the RV. The shed and RV are only about 20' apart, so the signal coverage should be adequate both inside the shed and RV.

The shed has a metal roof. I want to maximize outside area coverage in compound (approx. 1 acre clearing in the woods), while not compromising signal inside the shed.

My question: Do I mount the WAP on a mast above the level of the roof? If so, will the signal have trouble penetrating into the shed? Would I be better off with the WAP directly mounted on the side of the shed, below the roofline?

Useful WIFI coverage is about 150 FEET in radius. You WAPs on a shed probably won't cover an acre depending on the shape. The edges will have poor coverage, since the signal has to penetrate the skin of the RVs. Do you have power poles on the property? If so, I would look at a point to multipoint solution to multiple outdoor WAPs, probably 3 or 4 (triangle or square arrangement).

 

[rbstern]

Useful WIFI coverage is about 150 FEET in radius. You WAPs on a shed probably won't cover an acre depending on the shape. The edges will have poor coverage, since the signal has to penetrate the skin of the RVs. Do you have power poles on the property? If so, I would look at a point to multipoint solution to multiple outdoor WAPs, probably 3 or 4 (triangle or square arrangement).

My experience is different. I have an EAP110 (wireless n) mounted 500' away from the 1 acre we're discussing. Definitely not line of sight. While working on the shed (in the middle of that acre), my phone has a modest connection to that EAP110. Is it a great signal? No. But certainly a stable and useful Wifi signal. Next time I'm out there, I'll take a db reading and post it here.

 

[kanewolf]

My experience is different. I have an EAP110 (wireless n) mounted 500' away from the 1 acre we're discussing. Definitely not line of sight. While working on the shed (in the middle of that acre), my phone has a modest connection to that EAP110. Is it a great signal? No. But certainly a stable and useful Wifi signal. Next time I'm out there, I'll take a db reading and post it here.

Getting a signal and being able to reliably transmit back are two very different things. You phone has MUCH lower transmit power. WIFI only works if there is reliable two way communication.

 

[rbstern]

Getting a signal and being able to reliably transmit back are two very different things. You phone has MUCH lower transmit power. WIFI only works if there is reliable two way communication.

My choice of the word "useful" probably wasn't a good way to describe the signal. I was browsing the web and receiving email, i.e., two-way interaction with the access point.

 

[rbstern]

My experience is different. I have an EAP110 (wireless n) mounted 500' away from the 1 acre we're discussing. Definitely not line of sight. While working on the shed (in the middle of that acre), my phone has a modest connection to that EAP110. Is it a great signal? No. But certainly a stable and useful Wifi signal. Next time I'm out there, I'll take a db reading and post it here.

Replying to my own comment to post the reading: I got -77db, and according the metering app on my phone, 28mbps throughput at about 500' from the EAP110. Again, not line of sight, but also not heavily blocked.

 

[Fredvon4]

I did not read al the responses. My 2.3 acres has 1 house with a metal roof and 10 windows. Two occupied all metal "sheds" one with windows and the other entirely metal roofed and sided. Mine with windows can receive the WIFI signal (2.4Ghz) from the main house router (In a window) 98 feet away. My wife's 30x 40 all metal shed is fed by and Ethernet cable to a AP with WIFI inside the quilting shop. We have a rural ISP with only 30Mbps down into Linksys devices. A fairly complicated "smart home" with 4 TVs, 9 Cameras,5 robot vacuum cleaners, 8 Lights and 6 switches. About 55 devices when you consider cell phones and tablets and all the Alexa dot stuff.
But to answer your question the all metal shed will not receive a strong enough signal except if a window is present facing your sending WIFI device. Frankly I found 150 feet of direct Bury Cat 6 to be very affordable as was the Linksys access point with WIFI. Too many obstacles on my property so I strung the cable in my trees.

 

[rbstern]

I did not read al the responses. My 2.3 acres has 1 house with a metal roof and 10 windows. Two occupied all metal "sheds" one with windows and the other entirely metal roofed and sided. Mine with windows can receive the WIFI signal (2.4Ghz) from the main house router (In a window) 98 feet away. My wife's 30x 40 all metal shed is fed by and Ethernet cable to a AP with WIFI inside the quilting shop. We have a rural ISP with only 30Mbps down into Linksys devices. A fairly complicated "smart home" with 4 TVs, 9 Cameras,5 robot vacuum cleaners, 8 Lights and 6 switches. About 55 devices when you consider cell phones and tablets and all the Alexa dot stuff.
But to answer your question the all metal shed will not receive a strong enough signal except if a window is present facing your sending WIFI device. Frankly I found 150 feet of direct Bury Cat 6 to be very affordable as was the Linksys access point with WIFI. Too many obstacles on my property so I strung the cable in my trees.

Appreciate the detailed insight to your setup.

I'm hopeful, since the shed I am dealing with has wood siding, wood doors, and several windows, it won't be greatly impacted by trying to optimize outside coverage of the Wifi 6 AP mounted above the roofline. As suggested, I will be testing with a meter to optimize the placement.

 

[frogr]

What blocks wifi can be bizarre. They put a energy window film on the glass where I used to work. We soon had complaints the wifi no longer worked in the parking lot. You could stand next to the glass and see the AP not more than 5ft away on the ceiling and get almost no signal. Open a door and you get very strong signal.
Management decided it was a good thing and we ended up putting in a outdoor ap that covered only the outdoor eating area near the cafe.

The window film has a thin metallic layer hence it blocked the wifi signal

 

[nigelivey]

Thanks for the suggestion.

The passthrough wouldn't gain me anything. The slave PTP Litebeam on the compound side will actually be on a post, about 200 feet away, fed by a buried CAT6. That will give it clear line of sight to the fiber router side Litebeam. The POE switch will be positioned in the shed, about 12' from where the EAP610 is going to be mounted.

Also, my recent experience with ax devices has me impressed enough to stop investing in ac devices. I've got three ax routers running in various spots, and have phased out all of my ac routers. The switch to ax improved signal quality and bandwidth availability everyplace I made that change.

The PTP lightbeams are AC? Im not sure what you mean? The only way you would gain anything more would be using the 60Ghz kit. Or Airfibres, I'm only talking about the PTP not the APs. I see there is no benifit in your scenario though.