Question Micro Stutter Is Diabolical!

Oxicoi

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Hello 😲

Please of holy technical forum enthusiasts, I need your ultimate help.

I have done so much to get rid of micro-stutters/spikes/jumps/ (whatever word that best fits the annoyance of this issue) and I have yet to figure it out.

I recently got new RAM and a new motherboard to make it QVL certified to see if perhaps maybe the memory was an issue or the motherboard, I had got years ago that was "used" had worn out so fast within its' 1–2-year lifespan.
Turns out it still happens. I have done a lot of switching and quality checking of my parts to see if for some odd reason the compatibility was off, and it isn't. I'm so confused.

Steps I have already tried:
  • Clean install of Windows 10
  • Latest chipset and graphic drivers
  • Latest drivers of other related motherboard features
  • Turning off any OC for GPU and CPU (less stutters, but still very much consistent)
  • Deleting/Disabling the hibernation file (which saved 25.5GB of Windows space)
  • Undervolting the GPU and CPU (CPU currently --- PBO 'ON', CPPCC & CPPC PrefCores 'OFF', Voltage offset on '-' at '0.1000') [GPU undervolted to 900mV @ 1900MHz {is able to achieve 2000MHz}]
I wouldn't say the M.2's or SSD could cause any issues like these.......... could it?

Components-
MOBO
: ROG Strix X570-E Gaming
RAM: G.Skill TridentZ 4x16GB 3600MHZ CL16
CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 3900x 12c/24t
GPU: Gigabyte 3X Windforce RTX 2070 Super 8GB
PSU: Corsair HX850 80+ Platinum Certified, Fully Modular (Renewed)
AIO: DEEPCOOL Castle 360EX
Storage-

NVMe 2: Samsung 970 EVO 500GB
NVMe 1: addlink PCIe G4x4 1TB
Peripherals-

Mouse: Logitech G403 Hero
Keyboard: Glorious GMMK Compact w/ Gateron Clear Switches
Microphone: Audio Technica AT2020
Headset: JBL Quantum One
Monitor: ASUS TUF Gaming VG279QM 27", 1ms 1080p 240Hz
 
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Oxicoi

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What's the processor you are using and how long have you been facing the issue
The CPU processor and all related hardware are in my signature, which I stated. Not sure how you missed that. For you though, I'm using Ryzen 9 3900x.

How long has this been happening? I only recently made conscious of it and now it bothers the heck out of me. I can say it has been happening for months.
 

Sadz_Mas

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Man i have almost the same specs as yours ,The processor i have been using is 5950x and i have the same issue as yours,It's basically a ftpm issue which was confirmed by Amd as well and will be fixed when you update your bios to AMD AM4 AGESA V2 PI 1.2.0.7 (The bios is still in beta i would suggest you to wait until it's realeased)
 

Oxicoi

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Man i have almost the same specs as yours ,The processor i have been using is 5950x and i have the same issue as yours,It's basically a ftpm issue which was confirmed by Amd as well and will be fixed when you update your bios to AMD AM4 AGESA V2 PI 1.2.0.7 (The bios is still in beta i would suggest you to wait until it's realeased)
Dang, really? That really sucks. This is also seems to be in relation to Windows 11 since I believe fTPM is only allowed for that OS since it's TPM 2.0. This is awful.

Windows really hurt AMD with this. Sad times.

EDIT: Odd... I have Discrete TPM or dTPM and not fTPM on. Seems like it's something else. I appreciate this suggestion however.
 

DSzymborski

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How often are the stutters and how long do they last? There was a recent issue with AMD and Windows 11 that's slowly getting resolved by BIOS updates (as you see in this thread), but that was only a very slight stutter a couple times a day. That was really annoying -- it certainly perplexed me before the news came out because it's rare that I have something like that I absolutely cannot resolve on my end -- but if this is a constant thing, that wouldn't be the issue.
 

Oxicoi

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How often are the stutters and how long do they last? There was a recent issue with AMD and Windows 11 that's slowly getting resolved by BIOS updates (as you see in this thread), but that was only a very slight stutter a couple times a day. That was really annoying -- it certainly perplexed me before the news came out because it's rare that I have something like that I absolutely cannot resolve on my end -- but if this is a constant thing, that wouldn't be the issue.
Well just researching a little about some videos with fTPM stutters, I have had issues like that where it stutters for a full second as if you're holding spacebar on a YouTube video where it pauses, then stops, then doing so 100 times. Looking it up right now, AMD suggested to use dTPM and that's what I have right now. However, I still have microstutters where it's just a quick nanosecond of an increase in frametime (not framerate).

I saw somebody show that their ethernet settings were using more than it could handle, causing some stutter issues and I have now since changed my 2.5GBps full duplex to 1.0GBps full duplex.

I use RTSS to cap to 240FPS on most easy-to-run games and they average around 5ms frametime. Harder games to run I lock at 120FPS on RTSS and they of course double in frametime, but the key point is that the FPS is consistent until a microstutter happens.

For example, if I'm playing Minecraft consistently at 240FPS with 4.8ms, I have the RTSS graph up and it shows an enormous spike in frametime, jumping up to nearly 20ms for that frame to render. Kind of odd since I play Minecraft and all my other games at the lowest settings. As for how long these annoying spikes happen, they only last a frame, so whatever one second in 240 frames would be is how long it would last.
 

Oxicoi

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Update to the fTPM stuttering: they finally released it officially and not in beta.

I went ahead and did EzFlash. I am still experiencing stutters.

What are my options at this point? I hate this.

EDIT: To add, I got QVL listed RAM than what I had previously used, but even with that I still stutter. Could it be the CPU or GPU at this point? I have had the 2070 Super for I'd say near 2 years now and the 3900x about the same. 2070 Super usually is overclocked, but I had turned that off since the fTPM thing was fixed and did a clean install to Windows 11. 3900x is offset of negative 0.1000 volts with PBO enabled, but I highly doubt that could be causing a jump in frequency causing stutters (unless I'm stupid and it does). DOCP because why would I not?

Is it time to switch to Intel because they're more stable, although they have made little progress with each generation until 12th gen arrived? Or just save up for an entirely new system with AM5 for Christmas?

EDIT 2: Ignore the "near 2 years" comment, it has actually been OVER 2 years close to 3.
 
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Oxicoi

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Question:

Is it possible for the audio to cause stutters? I had disabled the HD Audio controller in the BIOS and I didn't seem to notice much of any stuttering on a few games. I did notice on Fortnite that the RAM jumped from 8500MB to 9000MB, then went back down. I think that is usual though.
 

a7medhdz

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im having the same issue few people told me "perhaps" could be unstable voltage, i didnt understand what they meant what voltage exactly? idk
 

Oxicoi

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Update: Contacted ASUS for motherboard, I told them that when trying a new motherboard and RAM that is on the QVL, he stated it could potentially be the motherboard. He also mentioned to try other components, but unlucky me: I don't have other hardware.

He also stated it could be the GPU or the CPU, but I can't exactly say if it is. I have monitored both of them and I always limit my FPS to 120 anyway, so I can't be throttling and I cannot be having the CPU work "too hard" to not upkeep the frames. I don't have the GPU overclocked, so it just can't be that either.

I'm going to hate this, but I will be setting all settings to their defaults both in Windows and in the BIOS so nothing is being overclocked. I will then test to see if the games continue to stutter from there-on-out. IF this crappy stutter still happens, I will sadly RMA this garbage mobo and see if that happens to be the issue and then order another mobo to see if it continues from that. AND IF for some reason it happens to stutter STILL on the new mobo, then CPU legit has to be the issue.

Computers...
 

Oxicoi

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I have gone back to defaults completely, even went back to older drivers (letting Windows get them) and still stutters.

I have undervolted the GPU more, lowering power, temps, and clock speeds. Nothing changed.

I will mention when I got new RAM a few days ago for the ASUS Strix X570-E Gaming motherboard, G.Skill RipJaws V Series BLACK 64GB (4 x 16GB) 288-Pin SDRAM DDR4 3200 (PC4-25600) CL16-18-18-38 1.35V, having all 4 sticks connected temporarily corrupted my drives. Funny though because I did a memtest on all of them and it showed no errors. So, in that moment, I thought "well I have to do a full reset once again" and I went back to Windows 10 this time. Immediately after finishing the fresh install and the boot-drive restarting the computer, it went corrupt again!

I took out 2 out of the 4 RAM sticks, and then it went back to normal. So, in the process of refunding those and going back to my 32GB until a new mobo and RAM get shipped tomorrow.
I think the RAM slots, the PCI or whatever, might be screwed up.
 

Oxicoi

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Update:

Seemed like my PSU was connected to a power strip with many other plugins, so I switched that to an outlet - still stuttered.\
I managed to get a GTX 750 to test, and with that, I still stuttered.

So that means on a fresh install of Windows with a new mobo, new ram, and different GPU, and better power to the system, I still stuttered.

I will have to at some point get a CPU to test and see if it continues to stutter.
 

Oxicoi

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So, just to update my endeavors that I have quite honestly been a pain in the damn a** to deal with after nearly a month later, I have yet to find anyone to figure out a solution to my stuttering.

Since I was not able to get much help from these forums, I decided to venture off into LTT forums, hoping for some advice. It was indeed a helpful adventure to route my issues over there as many great suggestions have been made. However, nothing has yet fixed this damning problem. I then had been suggested to go into the BuildAPC discord, to which no luck.

With that said and having over 3,000 people look at my forum post, I have decided to come back over here to get some new eyes on the matter once again.
There are a few possible ideas as to what the issue could be.

One is that the PSU might be perhaps bad. I did mention it was a refurbished PSU and some people thought it could be a possibility. Though it is a Coarsair HX850 (not the older model), platinum, and I never thought it would be the issue.
The other suggestion was the games I was playing, Unreal Engine having issues itself and not me. Though, I can easily rule that out since my brothers do not have the stuttering issues in the games Fortnite, Gears 5, let alone Minecraft.
Another is my RAM timings. That is where I dived into the realm of BuildAPC discord. No one really seemed to be keen on helping with the timings, so I kind of just gave up and kept my D.O.C.P profile. Running Aida64, the latency does average around 73-75ns. With 4x16 at 3600Mhz, I do not think this is an issue.

There have been MANY troubleshooting steps that were made, both software and hardware. All components have been swapped already, except for the PSU. I have even tried a different outlet, no solution either. Different ports on the PSU, nada. Windows has been reinstalled beyond what a geek could imagine. Lowering polling rate in mouse and keyboard. Software has been down to the barebones.
Debloating, turning off certain services, HPET off, disabling unnecessary devices in device manager, disabling/turning off settings in BIOS, BIOS defaults, giving extra/lowering voltages, turning off pagefile, leaving pagefile system managed, 1 - 2 - 4 stick configs, and many different components later....... this mystery-ridden nightmare still lives to reap torture.

So, if anyone very neat in PCs are here to spread the amazing knowledge you have, let it out to me. For anyone interested in the extra steps I took to troubleshoot this very annoying problem, feel free to go here to see the many supportive people that have helped me.
 

Oxicoi

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I didn’t read the whole thread but did you upgrade your bios to the newest version?
Yes, on multiple different motherboards. Though, please keep note that I am not experiencing the fTPM stuttering that everyone else has dealt with. This is your sometimes normal microstutter/frametime spikes that are caused not from the CPU itself, rather some odd software/hardware issue.
 

KananX

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Yes, on multiple different motherboards. Though, please keep note that I am not experiencing the fTPM stuttering that everyone else has dealt with. This is your sometimes normal microstutter/frametime spikes that are caused not from the CPU itself, rather some odd software/hardware issue.
I think it could be normal. You’re using a 3900X and this is a CPU that consists of 3 blocks of quad cores and especially the last block has its own die. The jumps between blocks and especially from die to die have higher latency and can lead to micro stuttering, not lags though. Perfect case, the app doesn’t use more than 4 cores and you experience no issues at all, but often times this is not the case.
 

Oxicoi

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I think it could be normal. You’re using a 3900X and this is a CPU that consists of 3 blocks of quad cores and especially the last block has its own die. The jumps between blocks and especially from die to die have higher latency and can lead to micro stuttering, not lags though. Perfect case, the app doesn’t use more than 4 cores and you experience no issues at all, but often times this is not the case.
Well could I not just choose from the BIOS the fastest block out of the 3 and just call it a day until I save up for a better CPU? How would I do so? Four core per processor? I know 1 CCD doesn't do that.

EDIT: I figured out how to do just the best one, but it actually makes it worse. The stutters are much more frequent, even happens in areas that never stuttered as well.
 
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I think it could be normal. You’re using a 3900X and this is a CPU that consists of 3 blocks of quad cores and especially the last block has its own die. The jumps between blocks and especially from die to die have higher latency and can lead to micro stuttering, not lags though. Perfect case, the app doesn’t use more than 4 cores and you experience no issues at all, but often times this is not the case.
The 3900x uses two separate 6 core 12 thread chiplets and I can tell you that in my experience I had no microstutters with slow and fast ram. Your premise is that the chiplet to chiplet latency is causing the stutters when using more that 1 chiplet for the same application when in reality these latencies are at worst measured in the 170 nanosecond range which would not cause microstutters on their own. If this were the case there would be tens to hundreds of thousands of people complaining on forums that their AMD CPUs were causing microstutters in games.
 
Well could I not just choose from the BIOS the fastest block out of the 3 and just call it a day until I save up for a better CPU? How would I do so? Four core per processor? I know 1 CCD doesn't do that.

EDIT: I figured out how to do just the best one, but it actually makes it worse. The stutters are much more frequent, even happens in areas that never stuttered as well.
It is rare, but a defective CPU can cause an array of issues while still "working." Have you tried any other AM4 CPU to troubleshoot? I personally have had a similar system until recently and have had none of the mysterious microstutters issues you have expereienced. My system was until recently a 3900x on an ASUS x570-f with a 4x8 gb kit of 3600 cl14 15 15 36 RAM.

Have you tried running latencymon in the background while these micro stutters occur? Its a small application meant to test latency that would be from an application or driver high enough to cause audio distortions. It can detect latency spikes from pretty much any source that would also cause the stutters in your game. This application is very handy for at least giving a clue as to what is causing latency spikes. You can find it here. More information on what it does exactly here.
 

KananX

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The 3900x uses two separate 6 core 12 thread chiplets and I can tell you that in my experience I had no microstutters with slow and fast ram. Your premise is that the chiplet to chiplet latency is causing the stutters when using more that 1 chiplet for the same application when in reality these latencies are at worst measured in the 170 nanosecond range which would not cause microstutters on their own. If this were the case there would be tens to hundreds of thousands of people complaining on forums that their AMD CPUs were causing microstutters in games.
Yea, I know and you’re right. But some people are hypersensitive to “stutters” and the fact is Zen 3 is smoother.
Well could I not just choose from the BIOS the fastest block out of the 3 and just call it a day until I save up for a better CPU? How would I do so? Four core per processor? I know 1 CCD doesn't do that.
Just record a video for me so I can see the micro stutters myself, I’m at a point now, that I would like to see it for myself, this is something I could probably solve quicker in person.
 
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Oxicoi

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It is rare, but a defective CPU can cause an array of issues while still "working." Have you tried any other AM4 CPU to troubleshoot? I personally have had a similar system until recently and have had none of the mysterious microstutters issues you have expereienced. My system was until recently a 3900x on an ASUS x570-f with a 4x8 gb kit of 3600 cl14 15 15 36 RAM.

Have you tried running latencymon in the background while these micro stutters occur? Its a small application meant to test latency that would be from an application or driver high enough to cause audio distortions. It can detect latency spikes from pretty much any source that would also cause the stutters in your game. This application is very handy for at least giving a clue as to what is causing latency spikes. You can find it here. More information on what it does exactly here.
Latencymon had only showed dx whatever and then sometimes the nvlddmkm, the NVIDIA driver. However, I have done DDU and reinstalled many different drivers, all have done the same. Also yes, I have tried a 5600x on my system. Same issue.

Just record a video for me so I can see the micro stutters myself, I’m at a point now, that I would like to see it for myself, this is something I could probably solve quicker in person.
There are a few videos I have made already here:
Minecraft
Minecraft 2
Fortnite

For the fortnite video, I want to stress this: I know it may seem normal, but there are times where the area is already loaded and it will drop below 100FPS, near the 60-90s. I know this is not normal because it does not happen both of my brother's systems. So please, do not say it is normal like NVIDIA did.
 

KananX

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Minecraft stutters are normal because it’s a suboptimal engine, probably not related to your system.

Fortnite stutter is minimal and pretty normal as well, dips are normal, but again, if you’re so hypersensitive with these things, maybe consider upgrading to Zen 3, it will smoothen things out, but will probably not solve the issue with Minecraft.

I also noticed you’re using Win11, is it on the newest version and did you have these issues on Windows 10 as well?
 

Oxicoi

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Minecraft stutters are normal because it’s a suboptimal engine, probably not related to your system.

Fortnite stutter is minimal and pretty normal as well, dips are normal, but again, if you’re so hypersensitive with these things, maybe consider upgrading to Zen 3, it will smoothen things out, but will probably not solve the issue with Minecraft.

I also noticed you’re using Win11, is it on the newest version and did you have these issues on Windows 10 as well?
The stutters shown are not normal as it did not happen on a different PC, I think I should have mentioned that for Minecraft as well.

It isn't that I am hypersensitive about it, it's the fact that it never happened and now is happening. I have already tried a Zen 3 AMD CPU, the 5600x, it didn't help nor smooth anything. Are you reading anything?

I have been between W11 and W10, tried at latest updates and the start of it when installing using USB. No help.

I'd like to mention again, I have tried different components already. I have just tested a different PSU and no good result from it. I do appreciate the help, but it would do a better service to at least skim through some of this to not repeat the same suggested solutions.
 

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