Micron Wants NVDIMM "Hybrid Memory" to Become Reality

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A good enterprise server would already have a UPS set up, with signalling to hibernate to an ssd if the power cut lasted long enough to risk the backup battery running out, wouldn't it? Would these NVDIMMs really offer any advantage over that? I doubt I'd bother with it for my home computer.
 

freggo

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[citation][nom]MauveCloud[/nom]A good enterprise server would already have a UPS set up, with signalling to hibernate to an ssd if the power cut lasted long enough to risk the backup battery running out, wouldn't it? Would these NVDIMMs really offer any advantage over that? I doubt I'd bother with it for my home computer.[/citation]

Cheaper than a UPS and most home users do not have a UPS; most don't even know or care that these exists (at least among my none geek friends) !
 

house70

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I am not sure how much power DRAM draws, but this could be addressed by giving a battery power source to the module. A lithium battery can last 10 years, could be replaceable and this would avoid the NAND degradation issues. Even better, it could be a rechargeable one, charging while the PC is on AC power.
Just my 2 cents.
 

spazoid

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Unless your power delivery is VERY unreliable, I doubt you'd require a 100% overprovisioning to avoid running out of usable cells. Remember, it only writes the DRAM contents whenever power is lost.
 

Estix

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[citation][nom]house70[/nom]I am not sure how much power DRAM draws, but this could be addressed by giving a battery power source to the module. A lithium battery can last 10 years, could be replaceable and this would avoid the NAND degradation issues. Even better, it could be a rechargeable one, charging while the PC is on AC power.Just my 2 cents.[/citation]

Some sort of computer with a built-in battery?
Next you'll suggest they add in the keyboard and screen to the same chassis...
 

house70

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[citation][nom]Estix[/nom]Some sort of computer with a built-in battery?Next you'll suggest they add in the keyboard and screen to the same chassis...[/citation]
Some sort of RAM module with a built-in battery.
Your sarcasm is totally misplaced, you did not even understand my point. Reading comprehension fail.
 

dark_knight33

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A better use case for something like this is a fully powered off STR mode. It would make hibernation to your SSD/HDD obsolete, by simply saving the contents of ram to the module itself, then restoring it almost instantly upon reboot. It should be significantly faster because it would be intra module communication, rather than having to pass through the SB to get to the memory controllers on the CPU.
 

archange

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Still not the solution I was hoping for, I have to agree with anxiousinfusion.

We do not need another half assed/half baked hybrid solution. We need to go off volatile altogether. This solves one issue while creating others. I keep thinking about the awkward time needed to copy everything back from NAND to RAM. That would be like trying to start with the handbrake on.. :(
 

phate

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I'm actually very interested in something like this. Most UPS's suck, full stop. They fail all the time, and the PC connection setup to safely power down and reboot on power up is tortuous.

Most computers however, function on an electronic switch, and automatically turn back on once the power is restored.
If this could save the state on power loss and immediately restore it when the power turns back on, that's a huge boon to small businesses who can't afford generators, and it completely gets away from the UPS headache.
 
G

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not sure if this is a UPS replacement, what about data in the CPU cache / registers?
Anyone know if just saving DRAM contents is enough to restore the system state fully?
 

cbfelterbush

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It seems some of you have not experienced the performance of running your PC from a RAM Disc. However the ability to install applications and run them entirely from a ram disc provides Stupid Insane speed improvements.

I installed my Steam client and all my steam games on a RAM Disc, it used a real time backup solution that saved the RAM Disc every 15 minutes to my Revo 3 x2. When The PC would power off it would do an auto save, basically taking a snapshot of the RAM Disc then mounting it on system start-up. This solution worked great on a 48GB Ram disc while the OS and system had 16GB of memory available to operate from.

This solution required a lot of back-end maintenance, making sure it was backing up right and all that. This tech is aimed at allowing us to boot right into a RamDisc type of OS running environment. Replacing Mass RAID arrays of SSDs as the preferred method of ludicrous amounts of speed.

Just saying my 48GB Ramdisc was Writing at 7.5GB/s and Reading at 8GB/s, imagine if it was running across 240GB of ultra high speed DDR4 all the while being stored safely against power loss by actual NAND

-CB
 

gm0n3y

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I can see a couple of possible problems with this. First, does Micron have a patent on this? Without an industry-wide standard I doubt this will take off (unless it works in the existing RAM slots). Second, these will likely be much more expensive (not that big of a deal in enterprise though), especially if Micron has a patent.
 

shadowfamicom

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[citation][nom]cbfelterbush[/nom]...Just saying my 48GB Ramdisc was Writing at 7.5GB/s and Reading at 8GB/s, imagine if it was running across 240GB of ultra high speed DDR4 all the while being stored safely against power loss by actual NAND-CB[/citation]

I too have seen the stupid fast speeds of a ramdisk. Not as great at the speeds the as cbfelterbush has... but still able to write at 3GB/s in real world windows use. I've never benchmarked it, but I assume its limit is much higher. Running 4 sticks of 8gb Crucial Ballistix RAM in quad channel mode on an 2011 socket mobo
DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
Timing 8-8-8-24
Cas Latency 8
Voltage 1.5V

Now I have 3 SDD's (two first gen 60gb ones and one Corsair GT 180gb one for the OS), I find the boot of photoshop CS5.1 64-bit only about a second faster to load vs my SSD's. Not really worth using a ramdisk for (though it is a bit snappier when it is booted up with filters and whatnot). I mostly use it for scratch disk or even I ever need to run a big dictionary file. Best ramdisk program I have found is "Dataram RAMDisk".
 
[citation][nom]gm0n3y[/nom]I can see a couple of possible problems with this. First, does Micron have a patent on this? Without an industry-wide standard I doubt this will take off (unless it works in the existing RAM slots). Second, these will likely be much more expensive (not that big of a deal in enterprise though), especially if Micron has a patent.[/citation]

They use regular memory slots and act like regular memory. They simply have a NAND flash data backup in case of a power failure.
 
[citation][nom]archange[/nom]Still not the solution I was hoping for, I have to agree with anxiousinfusion.We do not need another half assed/half baked hybrid solution. We need to go off volatile altogether. This solves one issue while creating others. I keep thinking about the awkward time needed to copy everything back from NAND to RAM. That would be like trying to start with the handbrake on..[/citation]

Considering that each module would have its own NAND, it could take a few seconds to a few dozen seconds. That's a helluva lot better than taking an additional several minutes to several hours to get it all back up and running.
 
What I'd like to know if these hybrid memory modules are really any better than simply switching out the DRAM with FeRAM, a native non-voltatile memory with DRAM-like performance and density and also lacks the inherent endurance issues of NAND flash memory. Does anyone have any recent info on that that they'd like to share?
 

alextheblue

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[citation][nom]freggo[/nom]Cheaper than a UPS and most home users do not have a UPS; most don't even know or care that these exists (at least among my none geek friends) ![/citation]
That's funny, pretty much all my friends at least know about them, even if they do not see a compelling reason to use them. A good UPS provides more than just a few minutes of juice in the event of a power loss. They condition the power, too. In some areas/residences this can be pretty important.

Regardless, this seems like a stopgap measure until the next big memory technology is ready for primetime.
 
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