News Microsoft built a PC that can't run local apps — Windows 365 Link starts at $349 and doesn't come with storage

[Admin]

Microsoft introduced the Windows 365 Link, a mini-PC that solely works as a client for its Windows 365 service.

Microsoft built a PC that can't run local apps — Windows 365 Link starts at $349 and doesn't come with storage : Read more

 

[pug_s]

They are trying to make something like an overpriced $350 Citrix Wyse Terminal but run cloud apps which cost money. Gees, can't Microsoft allow you to use a low end microsoft desktop and connect apps in the cloud instead?

 

[bit_user]

The company said on its blog that it starts at just $349

Too much. For what it's doing, it should probably cost no more than half of that. Since they're making money on the subscriptions, they don't need a profit margin on the hardware, as well.

Anyway, it just underscores my believe that Microsoft now regards Windows as little more than a delivery platform for their cloud services.

 

[JamesJones44]

This idea seems to resurface every 10 years. The infrastructure certainly exists now, but I'm not sure the result will be different from past attempts. Latency is always going to be an issue for professionals and general consumers don't use desktops much these days. I could see maybe a laptop for general consumers having some success, but at price points much lower than what this desktop suggests they would charge ($700-800)

 

[JamesJones44]

Anyway, it just underscores my believe that Microsoft now regards Windows as little more than a delivery platform for their cloud services.

100%. It feels like they are executing a plan where everything runs remotely, games, apps, etc. so they can control the distribution. IDK if it will succeed, but it seems like that is where they are going.

 

[ezst036]

However, you should note that you still need a Windows 365 subscription

^^^^^^^^^^ This.

The company claims that the Windows 365 Link gives you a security advantage, especially as its locked-down operating system means end-users cannot install apps and store data locally.

Sounds kind of like an immutable Linux distribution.

 

[bit_user]

This idea seems to resurface every 10 years. The infrastructure certainly exists now, but I'm not sure the result will be different from past attempts. Latency is always going to be an issue for professionals

What latency? They're not saying it's a remote desktop frontend for VMs in the cloud, I think. The apps probably run locally, but are loaded from Azure and your storage is on OneDrive. At my job, we use OneDrive and it's pretty okay.

The app loading is probably streamlined via OneDrive-style local caching, so that you're not always waiting for the executables and DLLs to download, every time you run something.

 

[JamesJones44]

What latency? They're not saying it's a remote desktop frontend for VMs in the cloud, I think. The apps probably run locally, but are loaded from Azure and your storage is on OneDrive. At my job, we use OneDrive and it's pretty okay.

The app loading is probably streamlined via OneDrive-style local caching, so that you're not always waiting for the executables and DLLs to download, every time you run something.

The Aretechnica article makes it sound like everything is remote minus a thin OS for connecting to peripherals. It does have 64 GB of local storage which I'm sure is for caching, but that's pretty small overall. For light workloads it's probably ok.

“Windows 365 Link” is Microsoft’s $349 thin client for Windows in the cloud

Small, plastic thin client is Microsoft’s first “Cloud PC,” launches in April.

arstechnica.com

 

[ekio]

The nightmare product

 

[logainofhades]

Hard pass

 

[EzzyB]

I always chuckle at these types of things. Microsoft has reinvented the mainframe terminal!

 

[USAFRet]

This just sounds like a slightly more expensive Chromebook.

 

[pocketdrummer]

Just one more step on the steady march toward an "own nothing" future.

It'll be cheap hardware filled with SaaS. Then they'll eventually move toward HaaS where literally everything is a subscription.

I'm moving in the opposite direction. I'm building my own hardware, hosting my own services, and shutting down every SaaS I possibly can. The sooner we cut them off, the better it'll be for everyone.

 

[JustSayn]

Microsoft introduced the Windows 365 Link, a mini-PC that solely works as a client for its Windows 365 service.

Microsoft built a PC that can't run local apps — Windows 365 Link starts at $349 and doesn't come with storage : Read more

We have now come full circle, from the days of a dumb terminal and "big iron", to the personal computer and now back to dumb terminal and "big cloud"

 

[usertests]

This idea seems to resurface every 10 years. The infrastructure certainly exists now, but I'm not sure the result will be different from past attempts. Latency is always going to be an issue for professionals and general consumers don't use desktops much these days.

One of the articles said programs are loaded into RAM.

The nightmare product

Could be nice if it ends up failing and being dumped on the market, and there are no restrictions preventing you from installing your OS of choice. But it might not make a splash if it is yet another N100 box. 8-core N300 would be better.

A lot of performance will be left on the table from it being fanless, so some destructive modification of the plastic case might be warranted.

 

[bit_user]

Could be nice if it ends up failing and being dumped on the market, and there are no restrictions preventing you from installing your OS of choice.

As the maker of XBox, MS has a decent amount of experience building PC-based hardware that's very difficult to hack in the sort of ways that would be needed to side-load your own OS.

 

[thesyndrome]

This just sounds like a slightly more expensive Chromebook.

"Slightly" feels like an understatement, this seems like an EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE chromebook when you throw in all the subscriptions that are required to even use it, at least google docs is free.
In fact I can actually install apps on a chromebook's local storage, or even install linux on there, so this is even worse.

 

[JamesJones44]

One of the articles said programs are loaded into RAM.

I saw that too, only has 8 GB of RAM though, likely fine for basic workloads.

 

[cyrusfox]

I saw that too, only has 8 GB of RAM though, likely fine for basic workloads.

Per this article it appears the machine will have locally 128GB of space and 16GB of ram running on 4 virtual cores:

Microsoft says that its 4v CPU option with 16GB of RAM and 128GB of storage

 

[usertests]

As the maker of XBox, MS has a decent amount of experience building PC-based hardware that's very difficult to hack in the sort of ways that would be needed to side-load your own OS.

If Microsoft has done the obvious thing and plucked the N100 off the shelf to run fanless, then there's only so much they can do (no crazy custom Xbox security chips). And at the initial $349 price, you are better off picking up one of the many cheap N100 boxes on the market, so there's not much need to lock it down.

Given the nature of this product, we'll hear about how locked down it is from some hacker, and that will probably be made into a Tom's Hardware article.

 

[Giroro]

If a subscription is required to use the hardware, then you do not own the hardware. Period.

The only tolerable option for the customer is for the hardware to be fully included in the cost of the subscription, or as a lease agreement with no upfront cost whatsoever. This is because the company selling the subscription still fully owns the hardware, not the user. It absolutely should be illegal for companies to hold hostage hardware owned by it's customers. That is not how property works.
There is a reason hackers say they've "owned" a computer when they've gained access to control a system with the ability to lock out the person who technically bought it. It's not legal for an individual to hack somebody else's computer; It should not be legal for a company to do essentially the same thing, except on a mass scale.

I believe this should apply everywhere. If Mercedes wants the right to charge you a monthly fee to run power to a heated seat in your car, then either the car needs to be considered a rental, or they better be giving away that entire car for free.

So I'm definitely not going to "buy" any Microsoft 365 product (and tbf I doubt many people will) - nor will I buy a Mercedes, I guess.

 

[JamesJones44]

Per this article it appears the machine will have locally 128GB of space and 16GB of ram running on 4 virtual cores:

Windows Central say 8 GB of RAM, seems like the are at odds or there are two different versions (toms seems to be the only place reporting 16 GB RAM and 128 GB storage, for whatever that is worth).

That tiny chassis houses an Intel processor with 8GB RAM and 64GB storage

https://www.windowscentral.com/soft...-link-desktop-cloud-pc-microsoft-announcement

 

[bluvg]

Seems like most folks here haven't really worked with thin clients? I agree this device doesn't seem cheap for what you get, but it is relatively inexpensive compared to some of the very, very overpriced competition--though, like printers, the majority of the profit in this case is in the brand-locked consumables (the W365 subscription). But folks that implement virtual desktops (and know what they're doing) aren't doing it to save money.

 

[subspruce]

Seems like most folks here haven't really worked with thin clients? I agree this device doesn't seem cheap for what you get, but it is relatively inexpensive compared to some of the very, very overpriced competition--though, like printers, the majority of the profit in this case is in the brand-locked consumables (the W365 subscription). But folks that implement virtual desktops (and know what they're doing) aren't doing it to save money.

Well including multiple years of Windows 365, it's cheaper to just buy the level of power you need, especially in SFF OEM desktops (the CPU, RAM and storage can be upgraded in them)

 

[bit_user]

it's cheaper to just buy the level of power you need, especially in SFF OEM desktops (the CPU, RAM and storage can be upgraded in them)

At work, I have a Dell Precision compact Desktop. At one point, I checked whether I could upgrade the CPU to Raptor Lake. Someone tried it and found that the machine wouldn't boot with the new CPU, because Dell changed the motherboard (probably to provide more power) and the BIOS is coded not to allow Raptor Lake CPUs on the older boards.

We had already maxed out the RAM at 64 GB (it has only two SO-DIMM slots), so the only way to upgrade that would be to swap it out for 96 GB. Luckily, 64 GB is still plenty for me.

Finally, they do have two M.2 slots (it came with one populated, one empty), which was lucky. Also, a spare SATA connector.