Microsoft Faces More Anti-Trust Battles

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jhansonxi

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Removing IE would help security but I don't know if Opera is any better. Opera is not a bad browser and is cross-platform but who is going to bother writing malware for it with such a low market share?
 

curnel_D

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It seems like the European union is more intent on bullying american companies into paying them billions of dollars than actually giving every company a fair shot.

I remember something like this happening in California with Barrett Rifles. The cali gov decided that their guns looked too mean, so the prohibited their sales to the public. Not long after, Barrett decided to halt any weapon sales to Cali law inforcement, which led to criminals having their powerful and state of the art weapons, and the law enforcement struggling to find a replacement company.

I think this is exactly what Microsoft should do. If the European union wants to wail about internet explorer, then microsoft should just stop selling their software in any countries that the EU has any authority, and let the citizens decide how to deal with their union.
(Which wouldnt last all that long, I suspect. The average user buying a computer would be forced into linux or the overpriced mac, realize that they cant use it, and raise hell until something happened.)
 

semmster

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Since many websites are designed specifically for IE, obviously the specifications should be freely available to other browser makers. Please, leave IE where it is. Let the other browsers compete based on ease of use, visual appeal etc. I'm totally unafraid of trying other browsers but I always come back to IE. It's just plain easier to use.
 

megabuster

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How is a feature of an OS a monopolistic practice? So Google should be able to sue Microsoft and Mac for imbedding indexed search engine instead of using Google Desktop? Why don't they just beg for humanitarian aid if they need money that bad!
 

jhansonxi

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[citation][nom]curnel_D[/nom]If the European union wants to wail about internet explorer, then microsoft should just stop selling their software in any countries that the EU has any authority, and let the citizens decide how to deal with their union.[/citation]The warez community would come to their rescue.
 

GoodBytes

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We all know that this is all B.S from E.U. They need money, and are bullies that's all, else they would sue many other companies like Apple.

There are no advantage in removing IE. IE is already out of the explorer shell since Vista. Save space on your HDD you say? on your 2TB HDD you 'really' need that 20mb free, nice... like I said, no reason.

And without IE, how are you supposed to download special drivers (not found in Windows update) or the latest version, or even download your web browser that you want to use? and I ask especially if you have 1 computer and if you are not a computer enthusiast.

However there is an alternative for Microsoft, but I think Microsoft knows it still won't work: Have a check box in Windows setup "Install Internet Explorer"
 

dariushro

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[citation][nom]semmster[/nom]Since many websites are designed specifically for IE, obviously the specifications should be freely available to other browser makers. Please, leave IE where it is. Let the other browsers compete based on ease of use, visual appeal etc. I'm totally unafraid of trying other browsers but I always come back to IE. It's just plain easier to use.[/citation]

As a web developer i'll tell you this,

IE is fucked up, it gives all developers a hard time, it doesn't follow the W3C standards as it should...give standard compliant browsers a chance to compete, and you will see the quality of websites will rise.
 

bydesign

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I can tell you this if they don't fix IE8 this wont be an issue. It crashes almost every session. While I think the EU is a joke I also agree with dariushro in they need to stick to the standards.
 

frozenlead

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GoodBytes has a point. If Windows doesn't come with some sort of web browser, how on earth are you supposed to acquire a different one? Not everyone has Firefox setup on a flash drive. (I've had it there since beta..lawlz.)
 

Eggrenade

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If IE isn't bundled then how does the EU people to download other browsers? Do they really want people to have to pay for a boxed version? Are they that stupid? And is there really any money in free browsers? And why don't they care about Apple bundling Safari? IMO the US government should not allow the EU to bully is around that much. We should simply say that if they don't want to play fairly in any industry, then they won't play at all. We already have a trade deficit as it is, do they really think they deserve an advantage. Maybe we should also stop fighting terrorism for them. See how they like that.
 

kewl munky

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You can't sue Microsoft just because their browser became popular enough where people realized how smart of a move it was to centralize use around it. Gamers have basically been forced to play games on Windows for years, but I haven't seen anyone being sued for that. I think Opera is just desperate for a larger community. I have been using Firefox for over a year and I can do everything I did on IE, and faster. The add-ons let me do even more.

If someone honestly likes a browser better they will use it, and you can't blame Microsoft for what others do. If Microsoft can be sued for others basing their sites on IE, then I can sue game companies for basing their games on Windows, and I can't.
 

ira176

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Mr. Jon von Tetzchner, should stop his crying and build his own OS and include the Opera browser on it, then let the consumer decide. EU's argument is rediculous, do they really think that Microsoft should actually have to offer a competator's software in their OS? I they do, then they may need to start suing Apple, and companies that put out linux, so they include competator's browsers. ....the only entity in my mind that this makes "cents" to is the EU.
 

ThePatriot

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Most of you are missing the point completely..... and the EU does not care what US consumers think of its anti-monopoly policies.
And since the EU is a bigger market than the US, MS can't afford to ignore it.
MS has a real problem on their hands; time will tell how they will deal with it.
 

kamkal

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only real merit i see is the "standards hijacking" that microsoft is notorious for

bundling software is the same as toyota selling you a car with a toyota stereo, dont see anything wrong with that, getting IE with your copy of windows is like getting a factory soup up

leave ie with the OS, but pursue the "standards hijacking" big time, especially in the WWW realm
 

kamkal

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[citation][nom]semmster[/nom]Since many websites are designed specifically for IE, obviously the specifications should be freely available to other browser makers. Please, leave IE where it is. Let the other browsers compete based on ease of use, visual appeal etc. I'm totally unafraid of trying other browsers but I always come back to IE. It's just plain easier to use.[/citation]

that's the problem though that most ms supporters are missing here

websites are NOT supposed to be designed around IE, IE is NOT A STANDARD!

The www consortium is the standards body, similar to the IEEE or the ISO. Websites should be designed around the w3 standard so that ANY browser can open up the site without issues. Web browsers are also supposed to be designed around handling w3 standards. This helps maintain compatibility across all browsers and platforms.


Microsoft has always tried to do this; trying to change agree upon standards to THEIR own, this is why they are being targeted by the EU. In every aspect of computing where there is a standard, microsoft will try and intervene and plug up the pipeline with their garbage.

Compare it to your electricity; 110-120v is the standard used here in North America, now think of microsoft as being a utility provider trying to change it to 300v and giving you their own electronics to use when you sign up. This renders your 110-120v electronics useless and you are forced to use only microsoft's stuff.

 
G

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If that clown Opera CEO wants his browser to be used more,
they should do something with the plugin nightmare under linux.
No plugins work out-of-the-box, and life is too short.
Firefox is slower than Opera, but no plugin nightmare, so I am stuck with it.
 

neiroatopelcc

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Being from the EU myself, I wonder why microsoft doesn't just stop supplying us with operating systems as response? I mean, it's not like we've got any real alternative to windows. Sure we could use some linux variation, but truely no ordinary user would even consider that option.
I just don't understand why a company as powerful as microsoft can't stand up and fight the eu commission. It's not like it's the european population that has a beef with microsoft. It's 'only' the commission and a select number of individuals from companies that feel they're at a disadvantag. (read: greed).
Perhaps beurocracy has finally defeated both common sense and industrialization. You are not allowed to make the best choice if your competator would become at a disadvantage by it. You're not allowed to provide quality products, lest the products get popular and cost other companies their existence. In essence, you're not allowed to create the products you want, for fear that someone less competent might get hurt.
I do realize that msn beat icq because it was bundled with windows, and mirabilis sold icq to fools. But if msn was so much worse than icq, people would still use the latter. Same story for media player. Sure it's bundled with all windows systems, but EVERY SINGLE of the more than 400 computers I'm in charge of has media player classic (codecguide.com) installed, as it is superior to windows media player 11, and some even have winamp as well. Point is - if you're not happy with the bundled software, microsoft isn't stopping you from using third party ones. That's a tactic apple has used with great success, but if they'd be as big as microsoft, they'd probably get a similar treatment.

What is 'fair' can always be argued about. But only if archiving 'fairness' includes moving money away from the big players, will fairness be pursued.

Just my 2 cents.
 

Startled_Toad

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Its about time ms go sued for something. Dnt know why they think they can do what they want and then people will just go along with it because they have no other choice.

Standards are put there for everyone to follow. Why should they be different. They already get away with selling useless pieces of software that dnt work properly (vista)
 

neiroatopelcc

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[citation][nom]Startled_Toad[/nom]Its about time ms go sued for something. Dnt know why they think they can do what they want and then people will just go along with it because they have no other choice. Standards are put there for everyone to follow. Why should they be different. They already get away with selling useless pieces of software that dnt work properly (vista)[/citation]

If you're running vista on certified hardware, and not using uncertified software, it will run. It's not the most popular os, but it's not microsoft's fault that no hardware vendors bothered creating drivers. Anyway. Nobody's forcing anyone to use vista.

As for standards. They're optional. They are not mandatory. Microsoft doesn't have to conform to a standard if they don't want to. It might have consequences for the business not to conform, but it is a choice they have the right to make. If they don't want to support a given standard, they have the right to not do so. No matter what problems that might cause them.

And getting sued - as far as I can remember there's been lawsuits against microsoft. Even before windows was called windows they've been sued. It's not the first time, and it won't be the last. Question is, how far they should go to conform with the various requirements other agencies, companies and goverments are listing. imo they should stand their ground a bit more often instead of giving in to the pressure from meddlesome agencies like the eu commission. But then I'm just a small individual. It's not my business to decide over, but I do not understand why they accept the situation. Perhaps they're afraid of the test of time. Perhaps they think linux gui's are good enough that people might compromise and pick it over windows if pressed into it. I don't know. But I am certain their product quality would be significantly higher if they could make products the way they intended, and not make a product, and apply a number of changes to conform to certain enviroments (and possibly ruining reliability or performance in the process).
 

wiyosaya

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The US action ten years ago was whimpy, IMHO. It is too bad the original judge was recused from the case for bias, and too bad that the judge that replaced him was business friendly to an extreme. If the original judge had not been removed from the case, M$ would have been split up. What resulted was that the US slapped the hands of M$ and said don't do it again while M$ kept on doing exactly what they were doing. IMHO, it will only be when the M$ is broken up that the anti everyone but M$ behavior that M$ exhibits will go away.
 

E7130

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OK, so if you strip IE which is actually built into the operating system whether you uninstall it or not; you strip it all out, well, then how do you get to the web to get a browser?

I am a Firefox user and I use IE for somethings too, but this is stupid. Why is Apple never sued for Anti-trust? They bundle their OS with Safari?
 

Startled_Toad

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Yer im usuing certified vista hardware as it was all released with a shiny "VISTA READY" stiker on it, and then u take the drivers tht came with the "VISTA READY" hardware put it all together, dus it work? Hell no. Taken me 6 months to get 64bit to run stable, turns out tht i need to have my ddr2800 mem runnin at ddr2667 speeds otherwise i get endless bluescreens. Course ms want us to use vista they are stopping selling xp thou havent done coz of the state of vista which they themselves have admited isnt very good.
If i was to sell a piece of hardware like a laptop or motherboard to a customer saying that it works perfectly fine. When they get it home find it dusnt work properly who gets in trouble for it? they cant sell a product that dusnt work, especially for the price they are charging for it these days. £70ish for something that dusnt work properly?

Yer but by not conforming to standards they are bringing these lawsuits on themselves, and intentionally making it difficult for other people to create compatable software for there software, and this then has a knock on effect to the end user, because ms want to be the only manufacturer around they are spoiling it for the rest of us.
I am a Firefox user and I use IE for somethings too, but this is stupid. Why is Apple never sued for Anti-trust? They bundle their OS with Safari?
Because safari follow ths normal webstandards like ff and opera. Why do most versions of linux come with ff?
 
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