Microsoft Reveals Technical Details on Xbox One APU

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house70

Splendid
They need to cool down that thing properly this time. A lot of RROD instances have happened because of chronic overheating leading to premature failure, and people that bit the bullet and applied custom aftermarket cooling hardly had a RROD.
 

getochkn

Polypheme
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Wafer surface has nothing to do with the Red Ring of Death. It's lead-free solder. Same reason PS3's get the Yellow Light of Death, laptop GPU's die and give black screens and a lot of modern day electronics crap out. Lead-free solder isn't as strong, BGA connections either break or form tin whiskers. Companies need to use better solder as there are better lead-free alternatives out there, but it comes down to cost. An extra 40 cents per board to use a better solder or save 40 cents per console/laptop/whatever, they choose to save the 40 cents.
 

mobrocket

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Have people noticed that there is more Xbox One news regarding hardware then PS4...
is that cus MSFT is releasing more, or cus we are in the US... and its the opposite going on in japan?
 

Murissokah

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"Thus the device can pinpoint each player less than 3.3 feet away and more than 6.6 feet away using a 70 degree field of view."

Does that mean it has a blind spot between 3.3 and 6.6? I'm guessing either I didn't understand it or the author slipped there.

Anyway, nice to have some info on the VGA. It is a new architecture with a few significant innovations, so I find it hard to know what to expect before we see it in action.

As for kinect... still don't care about it. It is a shame to see how much time and resources are invested in that.
 

the1kingbob

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Wouldn't it make more sense to compare this APU with a AMD APU? This would help communicate the 'modified' AMD APU they are using. I don't understand why it should be compared with an i7... what does this communicate?
 

Bill Reinhardt

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I'm hoping that the Xbox One and PS4 are too similar to determine a clear winner in the graphics department. Hopefully, it will create better games and exclusives for either system.
 

the1kingbob

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Also, the RROD death wasn't caused by the die size. As mentioned it was caused by lead-free solder. Also, the crappy clips used to hold down the heatsink begin to give way after so many heating/cooling cycles allowing the heatsink to lift off. Most chips, no matter the size, would likely not be able to survive in that situation.
 

stevejnb

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Really? Not only do initial releases of major electronics devices often have hardware bugs to work out in general, after the 360's earlier models obvious flaws, MS should be under extra scrutiny with their first few batches of XBOX One's. Granted, the original XBOX had hardware as solid as a Nintendo device and moreso than any Sony console ever released, but the 360 was an obvious case of shoddy design that took years before it became a piece of hardware without a looming expiration date.

I really quite enjoy my 360, and bought my first one within 6 months of launch, but I'll probably give the XBOX One at least 1 year to work out bugs, build up a game library, and build a bit of good will after the early 360 fiasco. Besides, I've got a huge backlog of 360 and PS3 games to get through - let other people do the beta testing on the new hardware from two companies which have spotty track records for reliable hardware.
 

peterson99

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Actually, if you've damaged the die (as mentioned in the article) you would get the same ring of death as the overheating. So I think people are just misunderstanding what the author is saying (that perhaps this may be a new cause for a red ring of death problem).
 

Joshua M Below

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I'm perfectly happy being a tester if you consider the first batch a sort of beta. I don't play a huge amount of games, I generally only buy about 4 a year. I also use my Xbox already for most of my entertainment. Having a built in blu-ray means I finally only need one box.
 

HyperionLight

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Actually this was discussed in length on various occasions.

http://venturebeat.com/2013/08/26/microsoft-disclosed-details-for-the-main-processor-and-the-kinect-image-processor-in-the-xbox-one-video-game-console-today-at-a-chip-design-conference-those-details-are-critical-for-the-kind-of-expe/

 

opmopadop

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Getochkn : After doing electronic manufacturing for 5 years I can tell you that its not just the cost of solder, you have to run the reflow ovens up hotter and slower to allow every thing to bake. Lead would ramp up to 245 celcius over 6 minutes, lead free would need to go over 270 celcius usually over 8 minutes.

Now factor in that these boards are usually double sided where the top side gets hit with that heat and you are trying to keep the bottom under 150, you end up running the burners for the top section above 300!

Doesn't seem like a big deal until you factor in that the taller parts are usually capacitors... and they usually have some sort of gel or water in them. That temp lowers their performance over 25% from pre to post bake (and thats less than 10 minutes, imagine the long term affect as caps age!). Thats why mobo companies brag about certain parts (like caps) they use.

Electronics is like a nexus. If one part performs below its design spec then everything connected to it behaves with the same poor performance.
 

house70

Splendid

Precisely my point. They DID admit overheating was a main cause of RROD, but the heatsink/fan cooling solution has not been yet revealed (AFAIK) for the new console. I just hope their quality is better than previous ones.
Not to mention ventilation. That also is crucial, otherwise the heatsink will just dump all the heat it can inside the case, and it's all over.
 

shikamaru31789

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Actually, there is a picture of the heatsink/fan from an Xbox One engineering sample: http://images.anandtech.com/doci/6972/20130514-XBOX-ONE-TEARDOWN-014.jpg

Pretty impressive in my opinion, looks like a 120mm fan and the heatsink has copper heatpipes. The heatsink/fan are directly beneath the top vent for intake, while some of the exhaust should escape out of the vent on the right side.
 

seinfeld

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we got a detailed run down of the PS4 architecture like months ago brah. it was just as in depth as this was!
 

seinfeld

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is this a typo
"Sell also revealed that the chip packs 5 billion transistors that combines the CPU cores, the GPU core, 47 MB of cache and 32 MB of extra on-chip storage"
The Cpu has a 47mb L3 cache? and on die memory of 32mb??
 

falchard

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Engineering disaster story in the flesh. Now that I hear they will be using 2.5 billion transistors solely for on chip memory, why bother that's not a practical chip? 32MB of memory fills up in no time so the big items that will need it are still going to be pulling from the slower DDR3. Its wasted chip space in my opinion that raises costs for no reason for a compromise that makes any sort of advantage it could pose moot.
 

hasten

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The reality of a post like this is:

"I will stick with my PC...
Dell built - Core i3, GT 640, 4gb ddr3, 250gb HDD... 19" LCD by mommy bought me."

Only a tool would a) build that, and b) comment like anyone would believe that. I'm a PC elitist and still am smh.
 
About the lead free solder !
I also hope they use a better quality of lead free solder.
With eight cpu cores, and a gpu in the die package it`s going to get hot. I hope they have fitted a large cooling solution.
And the cooling power controls work effectively, or it will be back to RROD times. A mistake MS cannot afford to take this time around in my eye`s.
 

ubercake

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As far as the upcoming consoles are concerned, the Xbox One is the only one with compelling tech.

Sony seems to be pretty tight-lipped about their upcoming console which seems to simply be a PS3+; the '+' being upgraded graphics. Maybe it's just that they don't have much to talk about?
 
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