News Microsoft Stops Playing Nice, Says Apple's Store Policies Limit Cloud Gaming

HyperMatrix

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Why dont they take the same stance with movies and music??
Because if I didn’t have access to Netflix/YouTube/Spotify/Tidal on my iPhone, I’d switch to Android. And even at the start of those businesses, remember Apple was charging them 30% of their subscription fee. They had to fight to get better deals.

Xbox game pass streaming means people download a free app on the App Store, then gain access to lots of monetized content outside the purview of the Apple App Store. I think regulators need to step in here because it’s clearly anti-competitive behavior by Apple.
 
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Endymio

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As much as people may dislike Apple's stance here, it would be hard to make an antitrust case against them, given the iPhone's market share is less than 20%.
 

jasonelmore

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As much as people may dislike Apple's stance here, it would be hard to make an antitrust case against them, given the iPhone's market share is less than 20%.
Corps can still get hit with anti-trust lawsuits if they engage in anti-competitive behavior. Market share really doesn't matter anymore. Across all industries, we are seeing corps favor their own in-house services over what the competition offers. Policies such as refusing to sell genuine spare parts to consumers and repair shops is one of my most hated Apple policies.
 
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Endymio

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Corps can still get hit with anti-trust lawsuits if they engage in anti-competitive behavior. Market share really doesn't matter anymore.
Under US law, for the DOJ to bring a Sec. 2 Sherman Act violation requires the target company to hold monopoly power. That leaves Sec. 1, in which actions are often brought against firms which do not constitute monopolies, but in general only for behavior such as collusion between multiple companies. (i.e. price-fixing agreements).

European law is a bit less restrictive, but not significantly so, and in general requires either collusion or a certain degree of market dominance. If you recall (one of) the European Union suits against Microsoft required the EU to redefine the application server market in such a manner to give Microsoft majority market share.

Policies such as refusing to sell genuine spare parts to consumers and repair shops is one of my most hated Apple policies.
Understandable. But legal, so long as Apple does not hold monopoly power within that industry.
 

nofanneeded

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I agree with Apple Policies , I dont want iphones to be not secure . and I dont want Cloud Gaming on my Phone.

I switched from Android to IOS and had to pay Double for the same Phone technology , just for the better Security.
 

HyperMatrix

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As much as people may dislike Apple's stance here, it would be hard to make an antitrust case against them, given the iPhone's market share is less than 20%.
Less than 20%? Lol. Completely wrong. That’s the global market share, and only because it’s taking into account all the lower income countries that can’t afford to buy iPhones. In the United States, the iPhone lineup is close to 50% market share.
 

atomicWAR

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I agree with Apple Policies , I dont want iphones to be not secure . and I dont want Cloud Gaming on my Phone.

I switched from Android to IOS and had to pay Double for the same Phone technology , just for the better Security.
I can't tell if your being sarcastic or sincere and uniformed. While I'll agree most users of android don't secure their phone as well as they could or should (ie just run stock settings even forgetting the very basics like to add anti-virus/anti-malware), Apple's faith based security only works at all do to their low market share. Their security basically consists of keeping their market share low (20%) so hackers pursue Android who commands the lions share of the market. You could argue it still works but to me it seems like knowing how to clamp down android properly and spending less cash for the same hardware would be more logical.
 

Endymio

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Less than 20%? Lol. Completely wrong. That’s the global market share...In the United States, the iPhone lineup is close to 50%
Completely wrong? Not at all. First, allow me to point out that, under existing law, a company's geographic market is the market it does business in; for Apple, it includes the entire world. The DOJ can (and often does) argue for a smaller definition, but it has to do so based on issues like transportation costs, customer ability to shop outside their defined area, cross-elasticity of demand, etc. Again, in the instant case, U.S. customers easily have the ability to buy phones from any world manufacturer, with -- compared to the cost of the phone itself -- trivial transport costs.

Secondly, even assuming the DOJ could successfully argue for geographic exclusion, Apple could again cite existing case law, for instance the landmark case United States vs. Alcoa (148 F.2d 416 (2d Cir. 1945 ), in which a 90% market share was adjudged adequate to constitute monopoly power, but a 64% market share was not. "Nearly 50%" is not nearly enough.

Finally, you ignore the third prong of the legal test, which is that, even after establishing a case of monopoly power in the phone market, the DOJ would have to establish tying; to wit that this is leading to monopolization in the cloud gaming market, a segment which is certainly entirely non-geographic, and which, I assume, Apple's share is even smaller.
 
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nofanneeded

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I can't tell if your being sarcastic or sincere and uniformed. While I'll agree most users of android don't secure their phone as well as they could or should (ie just run stock settings even forgetting the very basics like to add anti-virus/anti-malware), Apple's faith based security only works at all do to their low market share. Their security basically consists of keeping their market share low (20%) so hackers pursue Android who commands the lions share of the market. You could argue it still works but to me it seems like knowing how to clamp down android properly and spending less cash for the same hardware would be more logical.
Meh , Most Android Apps force you to grant access to all Phone hardware .. IOS forces the devs to allow the user check each hardware one by one.

I have used the same App on both , in IOS I can disable many things for Apple Forces devs to do so , in Android , the same App on android has full access . Google Allows that while Apple does not
 

atomicWAR

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Meh , Most Android Apps force you to grant access to all Phone hardware .. IOS forces the devs to allow the user check each hardware one by one.

I have used the same App on both , in IOS I can disable many things for Apple Forces devs to do so , in Android , the same App on android has full access . Google Allows that while Apple does not
I can't say I have seen that issue myself but everyone's software use varies so by no means do I want to invalidate your experience. My wife ditched her Iphone out of a combination of security concerns (her iphone was hacked 3 times via app store apps and anti-virus was non exsistant at that time in the app store) and what she felt was a poor overall user experience, though that last bit clearly had nothing to do with security. Anyways I stand my by comments on Apple's faith based security. While I no longer hack much anymore, most of my friends who still do point out just how easy it is to get into an IOS device using the app store to take control of a Iphone. Granted the hole they create doesn't stay open as long on the app store compared to google play store do to Apple's tighter curating but if they want in an Iphone, it is an easier hack. Now you want to talk locking someone out of the phone completely via the lock screen, Apple has some street cred there, just ask the FBI. I just get frustrated when I hear Apple has such great security when in reality, they really don't at all and their low market share is the real reason they avoid as many major hacks as they do. Plus I personally find the press for what ever reason doesn't really make a deal when Apple actually does get hit hard, again it may be market share thing but I have a sneaking suspicion it has more to do with Apple being a darling of the press. But that is just my two cents...
 

TJ Hooker

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Meh , Most Android Apps force you to grant access to all Phone hardware .. IOS forces the devs to allow the user check each hardware one by one.

I have used the same App on both , in IOS I can disable many things for Apple Forces devs to do so , in Android , the same App on android has full access . Google Allows that while Apple does not
Just an FYI, an android app may request a variety of permissions but that doesn't necessarily mean you have to grant all of them in order to use the app. For example, I used to have a banking app that had a feature for locating nearby ATMs, which required location permission. I didn't use this feature and therefore didn't grant that permission and the app still worked fine.

Just based on my own experience, I can't think of any apps I have that ask for permissions that they wouldn't reasonably need for at least one of their features. Now, I have seen a couple cases where the app refuses to work at all unless you give it all the permissions it asks for, even if you don't access the features that those permissions would actually be required for. But that has fortunately been rare in my experience, and my very anecdotal impression of the situation is that it's improving.
 

nofanneeded

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Just an FYI, an android app may request a variety of permissions but that doesn't necessarily mean you have to grant all of them in order to use the app. For example, I used to have a banking app that had a feature for locating nearby ATMs, which required location permission. I didn't use this feature and therefore didn't grant that permission and the app still worked fine.

Just based on my own experience, I can't think of any apps I have that ask for permissions that they wouldn't reasonably need for at least one of their features. Now, I have seen a couple cases where the app refuses to work at all unless you give it all the permissions it asks for, even if you don't access the features that those permissions would actually be required for. But that has fortunately been rare in my experience, and my very anecdotal impression of the situation is that it's improving.
Local US Apps are far better than Worldwide Apps , Try installing Local European/Asian Apps , you will hate Android ... Apple forces Devs to allow checking each hardware one by one worldwide. Android does not "force" them to do so ...

If you dont have an iPhone , you will end up not using any local app while traveling.

If you travel alot for work and want to use local services APPS then Android is not the OS for that 100% .
 
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