Microsoft's BUILD 2012 Set Days After Windows 8 Release

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I agree with Back I will at least try Windows 8 retail before I pass ultimate judgment on it. Who knows maybe people will even grow to love it.

I am sure Microsoft caught tons of flack when they went from Windows 3.1 to Windows 95 over the interface changes. I am sure they caught some flack when they released XP and its new start button interface.

I am hoping they will give us some way to switch back to the regular style start button. I think people would be much more open to Windows 8 if they just allow them to choose Metro or Start Button instead of trying to force them.
 
[citation][nom]HotRoderx[/nom]I agree with Back I will at least try Windows 8 retail before I pass ultimate judgment on it. Who knows maybe people will even grow to love it. I am sure Microsoft caught tons of flack when they went from Windows 3.1 to Windows 95 over the interface changes. I am sure they caught some flack when they released XP and its new start button interface. I am hoping they will give us some way to switch back to the regular style start button. I think people would be much more open to Windows 8 if they just allow them to choose Metro or Start Button instead of trying to force them.[/citation]

When Win95 came out, most people didn't have a computer except for geeks and businesses. But when it did come out it was so revolutionary, people didn't care about the UI, or even knew what a UI was... XP did indeed catch hell, it was called too "sesame street like"...

But Win8 just plain does not make sense.... for a desktop.
If MS would just say "OK! we got 2 versions of Win8! One for tablets! One for desktop with the Start bar!" Then I would have their back. But they didn't...
Oh, and good luck getting businesses to buy this thing ANY TIME soon. You have to literally retrain people how to use a computer because it is such a departure from decades of the start bar, we are also in a recession, making money tight for the software itself and training people for it...
MS Will NOT MAKE MONEY with this thing for a long time.
And if they think that the tablets will pick up the sales, they are wrong. There are signs that Apple/Android already saturated the market, and the recession is STILL here...
 
[citation][nom]back_by_demand[/nom]Enough already, just go use OSX if it means that much to you[/citation]

Windows 8 is almost as crappy as OSX, it will burn to the ground. No chance of success for Windows 8, just freaking horrible.
 
[citation][nom]memadmax[/nom]Oh, and good luck getting businesses to buy this thing ANY TIME soon. You have to literally retrain people how to use a computer because it is such a departure from decades of the start bar[/citation]
In most large corporations there will be banks of staff that all use the same 3 or 4 programs all day long, a Client Record Managment tool, an email program, the Office suite
...
If these are placed on the home screen as big ass launch tiles then it will not take any retraining at all, click the tile and the program launches, when it does it behaves like it always did
...
Honestly, way too much drama, try to dial it back a notch
 
After using the Server 2012 pre-release I have to say I'm really disappointed in ReFS. Initially I was excited it would bring ZFS-like features to Windows but its not even close. At this point it seems really half-baked.

Many NTFS features are no longer supported. Their explanation is that they are not commonly used. This includes: "named streams, object IDs, short names, compression, file level encryption (EFS), user data transactions, sparse, hard-links, extended attributes, and quotas."

Some of these I can understand, but quotas? those are widely used in enterprise environments. User data transactions (transactional NTFS) was just introduced in Vista and is a much better way to safely manage data updates. It's used by several windows subsystems like windows update so you don't end up with a broken system if theres a power loss.

It is also incompatible with the new deduplication features. Self-healing only works with mirrored storage spaces so you have to choose between data integrity and space-efficient parity setups.

Finally, they didn't add which is becoming an increasingly valuable feature: SSD caching. SSDs are becoming widespread and being able to use them for caching is a huge win in terms of I/O performance. For now it seems we're left with very expensive hardware options from FusionIO and/or SAN vendors.
 
[citation][nom]nebun[/nom]from the way it looks, win 8 is more like a service pack....[/citation]
Sure, it is based upon the same general OS idea of Win Vista/7, but there are so many changes, improvements, and optimizations that it really runs like a whole different animal. You won't notice the difference so much on a desktop, but the difference on a laptop is astounding! My netbooks both run much smoother with win8, and they got a sizable increase in battery life (less HDD reading, less wifi use, less system overhead on the CPU and Ram all adds up). It is a true leap forward on the technical level, while still providing great backwards compatibility (for the non-ARM version anyways).
The only issue to take with it is if you like Metro or not. Personally I am not a huge fan, but it is not bad either (especially once you have logical program groupings/labels, and link to your social media accounts). After using it a while I find it much more interesting/useful than the old start menu, and I also find that I simply never see it in day-to-day use (which is all in the desktop environment).

Yes, there will be a learning curve, and it will be painful, but at the same time I think it will be much less of a leap as it was moving to win95 (which was broken until win98SE), WinXP (which was a cartoonish resource hog and 'required' 1GB of ram to run smoothly when 128MB was still the norm), or Vista (which was another huge resource hog, and 3rd party hardware developers had terrible driver support, especially for the 64bit edition). Win8 runs smoothly and stable on just about anything, is much smaller in size, and is fairly intuitive once you get the idea of what they are trying to do with Metro.

So ya, there will be some preference issues with the new OS (it amazes me how much zeal people have for the Start Menu, but then again I have used several OSs over the years, most of which did not have a start menu), but to say that it will be the nightmare that some other 'upgrades' have been upon release is a bit of an overstatement. I mean, there is nothing worse than an OS that is simply broken, or where 1/2 of your hardware does not work properly for the first 2 years of use. My bet is a 1 year adjustment period, and then everyone will get over it and begin to move over.

One thing is for sure; It will not be the train-wreck that Vista was.
 
Kind of looking forward to this release to be honest... Server 2012 on the other hand.. I just don't think that the metro interface is really made for a server...
 
[citation][nom]HotRoderx[/nom]I agree with Back I will at least try Windows 8 retail before I pass ultimate judgment on it. Who knows maybe people will even grow to love it. I am sure Microsoft caught tons of flack when they went from Windows 3.1 to Windows 95 over the interface changes. I am sure they caught some flack when they released XP and its new start button interface. I am hoping they will give us some way to switch back to the regular style start button. I think people would be much more open to Windows 8 if they just allow them to choose Metro or Start Button instead of trying to force them.[/citation]
A horrible UI is a horrible UI. Windows 3.1 had a horrible UI too. Windows 95 was a step in the right direction. Windows 8 is a step back. Microsoft keeps trying to pioneer these horrible UIs. I doubt they'll ever switch back even if most people hate it. They're still using those crappy tabs in Office.
 
[citation][nom]back_by_demand[/nom]In most large corporations there will be banks of staff that all use the same 3 or 4 programs all day long, a Client Record Managment tool, an email program, the Office suite...If these are placed on the home screen as big ass launch tiles then it will not take any retraining at all, click the tile and the program launches, when it does it behaves like it always did...Honestly, way too much drama, try to dial it back a notch[/citation]

Ok, so in the context of large corps, you have 200-300 or so that have a real IT department and have the money on hand to do whatever they want to. That equals out to a rough quesstimate of maybe 20-30 thousand machines that run win8...

But the vast majority of this country, hundreds of thousands, if not millions of companies are small business. Where their "IT Department" is maybe one or two guys, and about 300 computers maybe 500 tops. And their "IT Department budget" is limited to the scenario where "if it's not broke, don't touch it".... And alot of those same companies are still running XP because back then they had the money, they also had alot of custom software made that is dirt old but won't run on new OS's so they don't do anything with it because it still works.

We can't all work in a Fortune 500 company, but it would be nice if we did....
 
[citation][nom]back_by_demand[/nom]You already can, run Windows 7 in a VM[/citation]

Or don't buy Windows 8 at all and stick with Win 7.

Though it may be irrelevant soon. Steam is coming to Linux soon, so we won't have a reason to worry about ridiculous design decisions from either camp much longer.
 
[citation][nom]HotRoderx[/nom]I agree with Back I will at least try Windows 8 retail before I pass ultimate judgment on it. Who knows maybe people will even grow to love it. I am sure Microsoft caught tons of flack when they went from Windows 3.1 to Windows 95 over the interface changes. I am sure they caught some flack when they released XP and its new start button interface. I am hoping they will give us some way to switch back to the regular style start button. I think people would be much more open to Windows 8 if they just allow them to choose Metro or Start Button instead of trying to force them.[/citation]

If using the Vista release candidate was of any relation to using the current build of Win 8, I think I have a good understanding of what the product will be like at release. I will NOT buy that terrible OS. This is worse than Windows ME and Windows Vista put together.
 
[citation][nom]pocketdrummer[/nom]Or don't buy Windows 8 at all and stick with Win 7.Though it may be irrelevant soon. Steam is coming to Linux soon, so we won't have a reason to worry about ridiculous design decisions from either camp much longer.[/citation]
You're so right. linux is perfect, it has no flaws. Nothing ever goes wrong with linux. Driver support is absolutely amazing with linux too.

linux taking over the world one PC at a time.


/end sarcasm
 
"I am hoping they will give us some way to switch back to the regular style start button. I think people would be much more open to Windows 8 if they just allow them to choose Metro or Start Button instead of trying to force them."

When you REALLY think about it... what can't you live without that's on the Start menu? ... Not a great deal really
 
[citation][nom]Proxy711[/nom]You're so right. linux is perfect, it has no flaws. Nothing ever goes wrong with linux. Driver support is absolutely amazing with linux too.linux taking over the world one PC at a time./end sarcasm[/citation]

Spoken like someone who really hasn't used Linux in a while. I use Ubuntu (dual boot w/ Win 7) and frankly the driver support is just as good as Win 7 on my machine anyway. Ubuntu also caught alot of flak at first because of their 'Unity' UI, but as soon as people caught on to the fact that you could install Gnome Classic as your default UI (thus every boot afterwards comes up in Gnome rather than Unity) the problem went away. All M$ has to do is simply allow the 'desktop' environment to be used as the default if the user so chooses. And no, booting into Metro and then getting into desktop doesn't cut it. That is nothing more than jumping through hoops.

[citation][nom]back_by_demand[/nom]You already can, run Windows 7 in a VM[/citation]

Really BBD? If you have to run Win 7 in a virtual machine, then please tell me why I should install win 8 to begin with. If I stuck with just Win 7, I'd still have that wonderful UI plus I wouldn't have to pay for Win 8.
 
I've skipped Windows releases completely in the past (ME and Vista). I will therefore not even blink an eye as I skip over Win 8 as well.
 
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