Question Migrating to dual boot - keep existing system

[Bitz2020]

Hey folks...

I have a 2019 Razer Laptop with a 500GB internal drive running windows 10.

I have a replacement 1TB drive (currently housed in an external enclosure) which I would like to fit in place of the internal drive.

The plan is to have two 500GB partitions on the new drive, each housing a windows system, i.e. dual boot.

I'm trying to figure out the best way to clone my current windows system, so that i end up with my current system on partition 1 of the new drive, and partition 2 free for a fresh install (I plan to download a bootable media version of windows 11 for that).

On the face of it, cloning current windows on internal drive to partition 1 of new drive, then fitting the new drive as internal would seem to make sense...

I'm just asking here before I go and do this in case I've overlooked something and could end up with a non-functioning system.

Any pointers would be much appreciated, thanks.

 

[USAFRet]

The plan is to have two 500GB partitions on the new drive, each housing a windows system, i.e. dual boot.

Why?
What OS's?

 

[Bitz2020]

At the moment I have everything on one OS. Ideally, I need a clean OS with as few background processes as possible for Audio / Video / Digital art.
I've always worked this way with previous laptops by virtue of having two slots for internal drives (old Lenovos). I know it's a bit odd having the same OS twice, but in practice I found it very handy when my day-to-day system develops issues that require re-install, I can go to the "clean system" and use that instead while I do a re-install on the other.
Many would deny that this should ever be necessary and I must say it's been less of an issue since windows 10, but still - at the moment I seem to have a .net framework corruption that won't go away and also a program that will not uninstall despite thorough searching of the system registry.
So, I want to retain my current day-to-day win 10 install, while having a fresh install to start working on (which might as well be windows 11, mainly for the improvements to WSL2). Eventually, I would go back and do another fresh install of Win 11 over my original win 10.

 

[USAFRet]

A dual boot is done MUCH better with 2 individual drives.
Or a guest VM for your other OS and tasks.

2 semi identical OS installs in 2x partitions in the same drive....you'll be back here before long trying to fix how it got screwed up.
Seriously.

 

[John Chesterfield]

You need to have ONE disk installed in your system, install one OS there. Then remove this disk and install a second disk and ensure that is the only disk in the system when installing the OS. Once that has installed, then hook up the rest of your disks and use the BIOS to select the disk to boot from.

That is the ONLY way to have a clean dual boot without any software bootloaders and without Windows putting crucial boot files onto various disks, meaning that when said various disks are removed, you're not left with a system that does not boot.

 

[SkyNetRising]

That is the ONLY way to have a clean dual boot without any software bootloaders and without Windows putting crucial boot files onto various disks, meaning that when said various disks are removed, you're not left with a system that does not boot.

If you have a single physical disk, then having shared bootloader is unavoidable for dual boot system.
And there is no disk removal involved with single drive in system. So that's not an issue either.

 

[SkyNetRising]

2 semi identical OS installs in 2x partitions in the same drive....you'll be back here before long trying to fix how it got screwed up.
Seriously.

What issues?
Well - you have to update them separately. That's the only issue.
Other than that, I don't think there are any.

 

[USAFRet]

What issues?
Well - you have to update them separately. That's the only issue.
Other than that, I don't think there are any.

As opposed to the many people we've seen here with such a config, and problems.

Can it be done? Sure.
Can it go completely wrong? Also sure.

The question remains...Why?

 

[SkyNetRising]

As opposed to the many people we've seen here with such a config, and problems.

Can you give an example?

 

[USAFRet]

Can you give an example?

I'm sure I could stroll back through threads to find where this is became a problem for the user.

Again...
Can it be done?
Sure, if you are very competent.
But if a person were that competent, they wouldn't be here asking 'how'.

It is advisable?
Maybe not.

 

[Bitz2020]

Actually, now that I come to think of it, I installed a dual boot of two win 10 installs on my other half's Lenovo Yoga about a year ago.. both on the same physical drive... it was a bit of a hassle, but no running problems, both systems work as intended. I wish I could remember how I approached it, I do remember a few abortive attempts. Unfortunately I tend to do these things on the fly then promptly forget all about it!

It seems I could "theoretically" put the new 1TB drive in my machine and do fresh install, then swap it out again and boot from it as an external for a "second OS". My biggest issue with that would be i/o speed, which would be around a third the speed of what it would be if it were in the machine: 1048MB/s Read and 949MB/s Write, according to CrystalDiskMark - but that's probably not "actual" or "real world" speed.

Presumably it's possible to do an exact clone of my 500GB drive onto a 1TB drive, or does the logical drive size have to match?

 

[USAFRet]

Presumably it's possible to do an exact clone of my 500GB drive onto a 1TB drive, or does the logical drive size have to match?

Assuming no starting problems, you can "clone" to a larger drive.

Please show us a screencap of this current dualboot system.


But, for the clone operation:
-----------------------------
Specific steps for a successful clone operation:
-----------------------------
Verify the actual used space on the current drive is significantly below the size of the new SSD
Both drives must be the same partitioning scheme, either MBR or GPT
Download and install Macrium Reflect (or Samsung Data Migration, if a Samsung target SSD)
If you are cloning from a SATA drive to PCIe/NVMe, you may need to install the relevant driver for this new NVMe/PCIe drive.
Power off
Disconnect ALL drives except the current C and the new SSD
Power up

Verify the system boots with ONLY the current "C drive" connected.
If not, we have to fix that first.

Run the Macrium Reflect (or Samsung Data Migration)
Select ALL the partitions on the existing C drive

[Ignore this section if using the SDM. It does this automatically]
If you are going from a smaller drive to a larger, by default, the target partition size will be the same as the Source. You probably don't want that
You can manipulate the size of the partitions on the target (larger)drive
Click on "Cloned Partition Properties", and you can specify the resulting partition size, to even include the whole thing
[/end ignore]

Click the 'Clone' button
Wait until it is done
When it finishes, power off
Disconnect ALL drives except for the new SSD. This is not optional.
This is to allow the system to try to boot from ONLY the SSD

(swapping cables is irrelevant with NVMe drives, but DO disconnect the old drive for this next part)
Swap the SATA cables around so that the new drive is connected to the same SATA port as the old drive
Power up, and verify the BIOS boot order
If good, continue the power up

It should boot from the new drive, just like the old drive.
Maybe reboot a time or two, just to make sure.

If it works, and it should, all is good.

Later, reconnect the old drive and wipe all partitions on it.
This will probably require the commandline diskpart function, and the clean command.

Ask questions if anything is unclear.
-----------------------------

 

[Bitz2020]

Thanks for that, makes sense... I suppose AOMEI will do the job? if not, I will get hold of Macrium reflect, which I've heard recommended elsewhere too.

Both drives are NVMe, since I'm using a laptop, it will be a case of physically swapping the internal drives after cloning.

My approach after that would be to shrink the active partition on the new drive, then allocate a new partition in the free space.

Then (and I think this is what i did with the other dual boot laptop if I remember rightly) I'll use a win 11 install media usb drive to do a custom install to the new partition.

This should result in the same setup as the other laptop: an OS choice on startup (blue screen) - whichever OS I choose, the active windows drive is seen as "C:" and the other as "D", but of course they can be named individually to avoid confusion!

 

[USAFRet]

Thanks for that, makes sense... I suppose AOMEI will do the job? if not, I will get hold of Macrium reflect, which I've heard recommended elsewhere too.

Both drives are NVMe, since I'm using a laptop, it will be a case of physically swapping the internal drives after cloning.

My approach after that would be to shrink the active partition on the new drive, then allocate a new partition in the free space.

Then (and I think this is what i did with the other dual boot laptop if I remember rightly) I'll use a win 11 install media usb drive to do a custom install to the new partition.

This should result in the same setup as the other laptop: an OS choice on startup (blue screen) - whichever OS I choose, the active windows drive is seen as "C:" and the other as "D", but of course they can be named individually to avoid confusion!

For a laptop with a single M.2 port, this:

----------------------------------
1x m.2 slot with an Image

Assuming you have another drive (any type of drive) with sufficient free space to hold the entirety of your current m.2 drive:

1. Download and install Macrium Reflect
2. Run that, and create a Rescue CD or USB (you'll use this later). "Other Tasks". Create this on a small USB flash drive or DVD.
3. In the Macrium client, create an Image to some other drive. External USB HDD, maybe. Select all partitions. This results in a file of xxxx.mrimage
4. When done, power OFF.
5. Swap the 2 drives
6. Boot up from the Rescue USB you created earlier.
7. Restore (on the toolbar), and tell it where the Image is that you created in step 3, and which drive to apply it to...the new m.2
8. Go, and wait until it finishes.
9. That's all...this should work.

--------------------------------------

 

[Bitz2020]

Thanks again... two methods then: the clone method or the image method. In my case I think I'd rather do the direct clone to the target drive, since it's reasonably fast via thunderbolt 3. My "other" drive is a usb and a pretty slow one at that, plus the time is doubled in restoring from the backup. That said, it would make sense to do a backup anyway.

Shocked at the size of Macrium Reflect - 1.2 Gigs, whereas AOMEI is about 121MB. Don't know what they put in there to make it that big, but hopefully it's all good!

 

[USAFRet]

Thanks again... two methods then: the clone method or the image method. In my case I think I'd rather do the direct clone to the target drive, since it's reasonably fast via thunderbolt 3. My "other" drive is a usb and a pretty slow one at that, plus the time is doubled in restoring from the backup. That said, it would make sense to do a backup anyway.

Shocked at the size of Macrium Reflect - 1.2 Gigs, whereas AOMEI is about 121MB. Don't know what they put in there to make it that big, but hopefully it's all good!

"speed" is somewhat irrelevant.

Yes, an adapter and a thunderbolt connection would be 'faster'.
But if you had started this one time operation an hour or two ago, it would be done by now, no matter what type of connection.

 

[USAFRet]

Shocked at the size of Macrium Reflect - 1.2 Gigs, whereas AOMEI is about 121MB. Don't know what they put in there to make it that big, but hopefully it's all good!

Macrium also includes a whole bootable OS.

 

[Bitz2020]

Thought I'd post a progress report.... Got Macrium Reflect up and running. Tried the clone method - cloned entire current C drive to my second drive. Did "forensic" clone, didn't change anything on the new cloned drive after process had completed. Powered off, swapped the new drive into laptop. Unfortunately laptop wont boot off the new drive.
So am now trying the image method.
First hurdle - possibly not uncommon - my USB flash drive (for the rescue disk) is "unsuitable" due to being GPT, according to Reflect.
Easy fix: run cmd.exe as admin. At prompt: >diskpart, >list disk >select disk 1 (my usb drive), >clean, >convert mbr
Was then able to create usb rescue disk in Reflect.
Currently making image of disk, hope to try restoring to new disk via USB rescue shortly...

Am wondering if I need to re-format / re-partition the target drive i'll be restoring to, since that is currently partitioned as per the clone done earlier?

 

[USAFRet]

And I remain a bit confused of what you're wanting as the end state.

Please give us a clear description of what you have, and what you wish the end state to be.

Not all the steps you've done in between.

 

[Bitz2020]

PART A:
Currently: 1 internal NVMe drive, 500GB - has one visible partition as main C: windows drive, but also other smaller hidden partitions (recovery, etc) since it's the original drive from the machine.
Seeking to clone current 500GB drive to a replacement 1TB NVMe drive which I would like to be my new internal drive.

PART B:
Once up and running, I plan to shrink the active partition and create an extended partition to which I will install a 2nd instance of windows using a bootable windows install media and the custom install option.

I'm currently only concerned about achieving PART A as a start.

 

[USAFRet]

Cloning to the 1TB should be no problem.

-----------------------------
Specific steps for a successful clone operation:
-----------------------------
Verify the actual used space on the current drive is significantly below the size of the new SSD
Both drives must be the same partitioning scheme, either MBR or GPT
Download and install Macrium Reflect (or Samsung Data Migration, if a Samsung target SSD)
If you are cloning from a SATA drive to PCIe/NVMe, you may need to install the relevant driver for this new NVMe/PCIe drive.
Power off
Disconnect ALL drives except the current C and the new SSD
Power up

Verify the system boots with ONLY the current "C drive" connected.
If not, we have to fix that first.

Run the Macrium Reflect (or Samsung Data Migration)
Select ALL the partitions on the existing C drive

[Ignore this section if using the SDM. It does this automatically]
If you are going from a smaller drive to a larger, by default, the target partition size will be the same as the Source. You probably don't want that
You can manipulate the size of the partitions on the target (larger)drive
Click on "Cloned Partition Properties", and you can specify the resulting partition size, to even include the whole thing
[/end ignore]

Click the 'Clone' button
Wait until it is done
When it finishes, power off
Swap the drives

Power up, and verify the BIOS boot order
If good, continue the power up

It should boot from the new drive, just like the old drive.
Maybe reboot a time or two, just to make sure.

If it works, and it should, all is good.

Later, reconnect the old drive and wipe all partitions on it.
This will probably require the commandline diskpart function, and the clean command.

Ask questions if anything is unclear.
-----------------------------


But still, why the dualboot of 2x the same OS?