mindstorm crown & moonring mirror

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Mindstorm Crown
Color= Artifact Type= Artifact Cost= 3
Text (MR): At the beginning of your upkeep, draw a card if you had no
cards in hand at the beginning of this turn. If you had a card in
hand, ~this~ deals 1 damage to you.

Moonring Mirror
Color= Artifact Type= Artifact Cost= 5
Text (MR): Whenever you draw a card, remove the top card of your
library from the game face down.At the beginning of your upkeep, you
may remove your hand from the game face down.If you do, put into your
hand all other cards you own removed from the game with Moonring
Mirror.

1) Am I right, that with these two cards out, I can "draw" at least
two cards each turn, assuming I had no cards in hand at the beginning
of my upkeep?
I would draw a card from Mindstorm Crown, then I remove the top card
of my library - as both cards are effective at the beginning of my
upkeep, as controller I could decide which effect goes first, right?
Then I remove the card drawn from Nindstorm Crown (my hand) from the
game.Then I put into my hand the removed card.
In my draw phase, I draw a card, and remove top card of library.

Next turn, assuming I have no cards in hand again, I draw a card from
the Crown, remove top card of library (2 cards removed now, 1 from
previous turn) because of the Mirror.I remove my hand (1 card) from
the game, take the two removed cards into my hand. I draw another card
at draw phase, and remove the next top card from the library.

2) Should I not manage to play those three cards I have in hand now
this turn, and I have ALL of them in my hand at the beginning of the
next upkeep, the Mindstorm Crown would still deal only 1 damage, as it
does not say "~this~ deals 1 damage to you for each card in your
hand", right?

Please comment, Juergen

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Juergen Stefani <juergen.stefani@utanet.at> wrote:
>Mindstorm Crown Artifact 3
> At the beginning of your upkeep, draw a card if you had no cards in hand at
> the beginning of this turn. If you had a card in hand, ~ deals 1 damage to
> you.
>Moonring Mirror Artifact 5
> Whenever you draw a card, remove the top card of your library from the game
> face down. / At the beginning of your upkeep, you may remove your hand from
> the game face down. If you do, put into your hand all other cards you own
> removed from the game with ~.
>
>1) Am I right, that with these two cards out, I can "draw" at least
>two cards each turn, assuming I had no cards in hand at the beginning
>of my upkeep?

Well, assuming you had no cards in hand as your turn started (which is when
Mindstorm Crown is looking at, _not_ "beginning of upkeep"), sort of. Both
trigger at the start of your upkeep; you control both abilities, so you can
order them as you choose.

If you order them so the Mirror resolves first, then you may swap your hand
(which is empty) for any cards sitting in the RFG zone that the Mirror has
previously removed, and after that draw one card from the Crown, triggering
the Mirror to have you after that set aside a card from your library face down.

If you order them so that the Crown resolves first, you draw one card from
the Crown, triggering the Mirror; when the Mirror's first ability resolves,
you set aside a card from your library face down. After that, the Mirror's
second ability resolves (if your drawn card is an Instant or can be cast any
time you could cast one, you can cast it in response to the Mirror's first
ability, or in response to the Mirror's second ability, emptying your hand
again), and you can swap whatever's in your hand for that set-aside card plus
any others sitting with it that that Mirror has previously removed.

>I would draw a card from Mindstorm Crown, then I remove the top card
>of my library - as both cards are effective at the beginning of my
>upkeep, as controller I could decide which effect goes first, right?

Both trigger as your upkeep starts, so you decide what order they have on
the stack. You can't 'decide to resolve one first' in any way, but you can
put them ON the stack so that they'll resolve in the order you want later on.

>Then I remove the card drawn from Nindstorm Crown (my hand) from the
>game.Then I put into my hand the removed card.

That's possible, yes.

>In my draw phase, I draw a card, and remove top card of library.

Oh yes, forgot about that. That's the 'second' draw you were talking about.
Given that, then yes, this is fine.

>Next turn, assuming I have no cards in hand again, I draw a card from
>the Crown, remove top card of library (2 cards removed now, 1 from
>previous turn) because of the Mirror.I remove my hand (1 card) from
>the game, take the two removed cards into my hand. I draw another card
>at draw phase, and remove the next top card from the library.

Right. And, as above, if your 1 card is an Instant, you can cast it before
you would swap what's in your hand for what's sitting there removed from the
game by the Mirror.

>2) Should I not manage to play those three cards I have in hand now
>this turn, and I have ALL of them in my hand at the beginning of the
>next upkeep, the Mindstorm Crown would still deal only 1 damage, as it
>does not say "~this~ deals 1 damage to you for each card in your
>hand", right?

Right. It just pings you for 1 if your hand wasn't empty as your turn started.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Juergen Stefani <juergen.stefani@utanet.at> wrote:

> Mindstorm Crown
> Color= Artifact Type= Artifact Cost= 3
> Text (MR): At the beginning of your upkeep, draw a card if you had no
> cards in hand at the beginning of this turn. If you had a card in
> hand, ~this~ deals 1 damage to you.
>
> Moonring Mirror
> Color= Artifact Type= Artifact Cost= 5
> Text (MR): Whenever you draw a card, remove the top card of your
> library from the game face down.At the beginning of your upkeep, you
> may remove your hand from the game face down.If you do, put into your
> hand all other cards you own removed from the game with Moonring
> Mirror.

I don't know where you are getting this text from, but it makes Moonring
Mirror appear to have only one ability. Oracle has it as:

Whenever you draw a card, remove the top card of your library from the
game face down.
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may remove your hand from the game
face down. If you do, put into your hand all other cards you own removed
from the game with Moonring Mirror.

> 1) Am I right, that with these two cards out, I can "draw" at least
> two cards each turn, assuming I had no cards in hand at the beginning
> of my upkeep?

Mindstorm Crown doesn't care whether you had no cards in hand at the
beginning of your upkeep. It cares whether you had no cards in hand at
the beginning of the TURN.

> I would draw a card from Mindstorm Crown, then I remove the top card
> of my library - as both cards are effective at the beginning of my
> upkeep, as controller I could decide which effect goes first, right?

Yes. If you put the Moonring Mirror's second triggered ability on the
stack first, it will resolve after you've resolved Mindstorm Crown's
triggered ability and Moonring Mirror's first triggered ability.

> Then I remove the card drawn from Nindstorm Crown (my hand) from the
> game.Then I put into my hand the removed card.
> In my draw phase, I draw a card, and remove top card of library.
>
> Next turn, assuming I have no cards in hand again, I draw a card from
> the Crown, remove top card of library (2 cards removed now, 1 from
> previous turn) because of the Mirror.I remove my hand (1 card) from
> the game, take the two removed cards into my hand. I draw another card
> at draw phase, and remove the next top card from the library.

There would be three cards removed the next time you begin a turn.

Here's a little more detail.

First turn, starting with empty hand and nothing removed:
Beginning of upkeep: MM2 and MC triggers go on stack.
MC resolves, triggering MM1; hand 1, removed 0
MM1 resolves; hand 1, removed 1
MM2 resolves; hand 1, removed 1
Draw step: draw card and MM1 triggers; hand 2, removed 1
MM1 resolves; hand 2, removed 2
Assume both cards get used before the next time you start a turn

Second turn starts; hand 0, removed 2
Beginning of upkeep: MM2 and MC triggers go on stack.
MC resolves, triggering MM1; hand 1, removed 2
MM1 resolves; hand 1, removed 3
MM2 resolves; hand 3, removed 1
Draw step: draw card and MM1 triggers; hand 4, removed 1
MM1 resolves; hand 4, removed 2

> 2) Should I not manage to play those three cards I have in hand now
> this turn, and I have ALL of them in my hand at the beginning of the
> next upkeep, the Mindstorm Crown would still deal only 1 damage, as it
> does not say "~this~ deals 1 damage to you for each card in your
> hand", right?

Yes, you are reading it correctly.
--
Daniel W. Johnson
panoptes@iquest.net
http://members.iquest.net/~panoptes/
039 53 36 N / 086 11 55 W

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Daniel W. Johnson <panoptes@iquest.net> wrote:

> There would be three cards removed the next time you begin a turn.

<sigh> Typo. You'd start the next turn with two cards removed; removing
the top card of the library would take that up to three as detailed in
my post.
--
Daniel W. Johnson
panoptes@iquest.net
http://members.iquest.net/~panoptes/
039 53 36 N / 086 11 55 W

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Q: Are we not men? A: We are Juergen Stefani!
> Mindstorm Crown
> Color= Artifact Type= Artifact Cost= 3
> Text (MR): At the beginning of your upkeep, draw a card if you had no
> cards in hand at the beginning of this turn. If you had a card in
> hand, ~this~ deals 1 damage to you.
>
> Moonring Mirror
> Color= Artifact Type= Artifact Cost= 5
> Text (MR): Whenever you draw a card, remove the top card of your
> library from the game face down.At the beginning of your upkeep, you
> may remove your hand from the game face down.If you do, put into your
> hand all other cards you own removed from the game with Moonring
> Mirror.
>
> 1) Am I right, that with these two cards out, I can "draw" at least
> two cards each turn, assuming I had no cards in hand at the beginning
> of my upkeep?

Yes - that's an important assumption, too. Mindstorm Crown has what is
known as an intervening "if" clause, so you only get to draw an extra
card if your hand really was empty at the very beginning of your upkeep,
regardless of whether you use Moonring Mirror that turn. Otherwise it
deals a point of damage to you, even if you manage to void your hand
before the triggered ability resolves.

Of course, if you're managing to play all your cards anyway, I don't see
why you really need Moonring Mirror for this.

> I would draw a card from Mindstorm Crown, then I remove the top card
> of my library - as both cards are effective at the beginning of my
> upkeep, as controller I could decide which effect goes first, right?
> Then I remove the card drawn from Nindstorm Crown (my hand) from the
> game.Then I put into my hand the removed card.

Yep, that would all work. You would put Moonring Mirror's "At the
beginning of your upkeep" triggered ability on the stack first, then
Mindstorm Crown's. Mindstorm Crown would go off first. After drawing a
card, the "Whenever you draw a card" triggered ability of Moonring
Mirror would go on the top of the stack, above the other Moonring Mirror
trigger, and the top card of your library would join your Moonring
Mirror pile before you put that pile in your hand.

> In my draw phase, I draw a card, and remove top card of library.

Yes, of course.

> Next turn, assuming I have no cards in hand again, I draw a card from
> the Crown, remove top card of library (2 cards removed now, 1 from
> previous turn) because of the Mirror.I remove my hand (1 card) from
> the game, take the two removed cards into my hand. I draw another card
> at draw phase, and remove the next top card from the library.

Yes, that works, and now I see the point of the Mirror, because at this
point it's actually giving you some card advantage.

> 2) Should I not manage to play those three cards I have in hand now
> this turn, and I have ALL of them in my hand at the beginning of the
> next upkeep, the Mindstorm Crown would still deal only 1 damage, as it
> does not say "~this~ deals 1 damage to you for each card in your
> hand", right?

Yes.