MiniDisk with microphone

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Can anyone suggest a good MiniDisk with microphone input suitable for
recording interviews for A/V work where the DV camera is a distance from
the 'subject'.

Make and Model would be nice to know and your experiences with using one.

Jackie

 

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Jackie wrote:
> Can anyone suggest a good MiniDisk with microphone input suitable for
> recording interviews for A/V work where the DV camera is a distance from
> the 'subject'.
>
> Make and Model would be nice to know and your experiences with using one.

My advice would be don't. Minidiscs don't do timecode and this creates
all sorts of hassles in post. First you have to sync the minidisc audio
to the video. Then, if you need to re-capture/re-digitise your video
for an on-line edit you will have to re-edit the accompanying minidisc
audio from scratch because minidisc audio can't be batch captured. Also
the sound quality is probably going to be better on your camera.

If you need to pick up sound at a distance get a radio mic. It will
cost the same as a minidisc and be much more useful.

--
Darcy O'Bree
Media Facilities Manager
Faculty of Arts, Media and Design
Staffordshire University

http://www.staffs.ac.uk/academic/arts_media_design/mediacentre/

 

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> Jackie wrote:
> > Can anyone suggest a good MiniDisk with microphone
> > input suitable for recording interviews for A/V work
> > where the DV camera is a distance from the 'subject'.
> >
> > Make and Model would be nice to know and your
> > experiences with using one.

"Darcy O'Bree" wrote ...
> My advice would be don't. Minidiscs don't do timecode
> and this creates all sorts of hassles in post. First you have
> to sync the minidisc audio to the video. Then, if you need
> to re-capture/re-digitise your video for an on-line edit you
> will have to re-edit the accompanying minidisc audio from
> scratch because minidisc audio can't be batch captured. Also
> the sound quality is probably going to be better on your camera.
>
> If you need to pick up sound at a distance get a radio mic.
> It will cost the same as a minidisc and be much more useful.
>
> Darcy O'Bree
> Media Facilities Manager
> Faculty of Arts, Media and Design
> Staffordshire University

That is certainly the traditional school of thought (no pun
intended However at least here on the left side of the
pond, it would appear that many low-budget producers
(wedding videographers, etc) have found that is *is* more
practical and cost-effective to use MD recorder(s) in lieu
of wireless mics. Certainly for the same limited budget,
you will virtually always get better quality from an MD
recorder than from a cheap wireless mic.

Of course, it depends a great deal on what you are shooting,
how you are editing, how much time you have for post-
production, etc. etc. etc. Both digital camcorders and MD
recorders are crystal-controlled and unless you have a really
bad unit, they hold sync better than you would expect. And
with non-linear editing, it is almost trivial to sync a wild
audio track to the corresponding video, at least IME. A
visible/audible sync point is always handy, but not essential
(depending on the program material, of course) For an
interview, a single hand-clap works fine (from personal
experience). Even a finger-snap would work if the camera
can zoom in to see it.

Certainly if you have sufficient budget for a decent(*) RF
mic and/or if you are on a tight schedule and don't have the
luxury of extended post-producting NLE, consider using
recording on the camera with wireless.

(*) "decent" is a controversial definition. Many semi-pro
producers (like myself) would consider anything <US$500
to be a "toy", while working professionals would consider
anything <US$1500 to be not worth messing with. I've never
seen/heard any evidence that you can get any kind of decent
wireless mic for what a basic MD recorder costs.

 

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"Jackie" <noreply@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:40D7D9A9.40700@bigpond.com...
> Can anyone suggest a good MiniDisk with microphone input suitable for
> recording interviews for A/V work where the DV camera is a distance from
> the 'subject'.
>
> Make and Model would be nice to know and your experiences with using one.


I use a Sharp MT-15. This model is particularly good for this kind of
application because it has an active volume display that can be varied while
it is recording (most Sony MDs can't). I use mine for recording ambient
sound and itinerant musicians, so my mike choices probably aren't relevant
to your application.


>
> Jackie
>

 

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I use an MZR-700 Sony with a basic clip on lapel mic to record people doing
rockclimbing, works great.


"Jackie" <noreply@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:40D7D9A9.40700@bigpond.com...
> Can anyone suggest a good MiniDisk with microphone input suitable for
> recording interviews for A/V work where the DV camera is a distance from
> the 'subject'.
>
> Make and Model would be nice to know and your experiences with using one.
>
> Jackie
>

 

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"Richard Crowley" <rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote in message
news:10dghgctjlffpa9@corp.supernews.com...
> > Jackie wrote:
> > > Can anyone suggest a good MiniDisk with microphone
> > > input suitable for recording interviews for A/V work
> > > where the DV camera is a distance from the 'subject'.
> > >
> > > Make and Model would be nice to know and your
> > > experiences with using one.
>
> "Darcy O'Bree" wrote ...
> > My advice would be don't. Minidiscs don't do timecode
> > and this creates all sorts of hassles in post. First you have
> > to sync the minidisc audio to the video. Then, if you need
> > to re-capture/re-digitise your video for an on-line edit you
> > will have to re-edit the accompanying minidisc audio from
> > scratch because minidisc audio can't be batch captured. Also
> > the sound quality is probably going to be better on your camera.
> >
> > If you need to pick up sound at a distance get a radio mic.
> > It will cost the same as a minidisc and be much more useful.
> >
> > Darcy O'Bree
> > Media Facilities Manager
> > Faculty of Arts, Media and Design
> > Staffordshire University
>
> That is certainly the traditional school of thought (no pun
> intended However at least here on the left side of the
> pond, it would appear that many low-budget producers
> (wedding videographers, etc) have found that is *is* more
> practical and cost-effective to use MD recorder(s) in lieu
> of wireless mics.

Also to note here is that it really isn't difficult with premier or UMSP to
sync the audio. Choosing waveform view, one can "eyeball" the audio from
the cam and from the minidisk source and then put on a set of headphones.
Put the cam audio in the right channel and put the minidisk audio in the
left channel. It will echo if it isn't perfectly sync'd. Then it is just a
matter of bumping the secondary audio source around a little bit until it
quits echoing.

Even though this is a multicam tutorial, the audio portion of it applies to
this sort of situation exactly
http://www.activeservice.co.uk/video/multicam/page1.htm => or of that
wraps: http://makeashorterlink.com/?B676220A8 . I do this exact thing
nearly every day. It wasn't hard the first time let alone the thousandth
time I did it.

 

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> > > > Can anyone suggest a good MiniDisk with microphone
> > > > input suitable for recording interviews for A/V work
> > > > where the DV camera is a distance from the 'subject'.
....
> ...Choosing waveform view, one can "eyeball" the audio from
> the cam and from the minidisk source and then put on a set of headphones.
> Put the cam audio in the right channel and put the minidisk audio in the
> left channel. It will echo if it isn't perfectly sync'd. Then it is just a
> matter of bumping the secondary audio source around a little bit until it
> quits echoing.

The OP says the camera is some distance from the subject. Sound travels
~11 yards in one frame (on this side of the pond). If the camera is ~60
feet from the subject - not unheard of in a church or auditorium, with a
long lens, syncing the MD track to the camera mic will put the sound 2
frames late.

Of course under those circumstances, you'll never get rid of the echo
anyway... at least, the camera mic will certainly have a lot of it. But
lining up the MD track to the start of a sound on the camera mic will put
the track late. Lining it up to the end of an echo tail on the camera mic
will be completely random, since you don't know the room's reverb time.

However, if the camera is a DVX100 in 24p mode recording as NTSC, there's
about a two frame video delay for CCD scanning and DSP. So in that case,
the camera at 60' will have the sound in sync. Gets interesting, huh?
That's why we still slap slates (or at least, provide a direct feed to the
camera).

While you're slapping, do a tailslate as well. In theory a MD and camera
will have drifted up to 1 frame from each other after twenty minutes,
based on the specs of commonly available crystals. But I've had
correspondents complain of noticeable drift after only 6 minutes. It
depends on temperature, physical shock, possibly sunspots.

--
Correct address is spell out the letter j, AT dplaydahtcom
Clio- and Emmy-winning sound design
Learn audio for video at www.dplay.com

 

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"Jay Rose CAS" <SEE-SIGFILE@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:SEE-SIGFILE-2206042157150001@192.168.1.102...
>

>
> The OP says the camera is some distance from the subject. Sound travels
> ~11 yards in one frame (on this side of the pond). If the camera is ~60
> feet from the subject - not unheard of in a church or auditorium, with a
> long lens, syncing the MD track to the camera mic will put the sound 2
> frames late.

In the tutorial I linked to, it mentions that the external audio source
should end up being the one used and the cam audio discarded after syncing
it up. I suppose it depends much on how many minutes per scene, but the
solution is moving the final audio up two frames, I suppose. I recently
shot an event in an auditorium. The sound man botched the patch so we had
to rely on cam audio in post. - My cam (center 1) was about 50 feet from the
speakers.. left cam was about 30 feet.. right cam was about 60 feet.. two
roving handheld that varied distances as the operaters roved.. and an
unmanned center 2 at 60 feet. I didn't find it too difficult to get the
audio right with UMSP, but I didn't work with any scenes longer than four
and a half minutes.

 

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> The OP says the camera is some distance from the subject.

Sound travels ~11 yards in one frame (on this side of the pond).

If the camera is ~60 feet from the subject - not unheard of in a
church or auditorium, with a long lens, syncing the MD track to the
camera mic will put the sound 2 frames late.
>
Yeah, but you folks drive on the wrong side of the road, and your
steering wheels are installed backwards.....If you violate the laws of
humankind that way, how do we know you are not taking similar
liberties with the natural laws of physics governing the speed of
sound? ;-)

 

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In message <2jqa55F13irn4U1@uni-berlin.de>, Darcy O'Bree
<junk@staffs.ac.uk> writes
>If you need to pick up sound at a distance get a radio mic. It will
>cost the same as a minidisc and be much more useful.

But to get stereo you'll have to buy two?

--
Martin @ Strawberry Hill