Minimum operating temperatures?

Guest · Jul 10, 2001

Anyone know what the minimum operating temeratures of CPUs are? Specifically of 1.4ghz Athlons?
I need to know if I can run one in a freezer that gets pretty cold (-78.5C, or -109.3F)

Guest · Jul 10, 2001

I think that'd be okay. The colder it is, the faster a processor runs, and unless you hit absolute zero (which is impossible anyhow), you'll be okay. However, if you do hit absolute zero, I think your computer would fall apart into atoms if I remember my theoretical chemistry right.

Guest · Jul 10, 2001

Not okwhatIhave heard,Ithink you need a garrantee from an builder! Same as having ordinary labour done inside a freezer! Just cant stuff around with it, yeah!

~OMG IT nearly melted, lucky I had the extra fan *inside* ~

Stick_e_Mouse · Jul 10, 2001

No actually, I think there is a minimum temp limit (thats not absolute zero). I've read it somewhere, i think...but i don't know what the exact temp is.

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Guest · Jul 10, 2001

Yeah, that's why I'm posting.
I remember somthing... but no specs seem available.

Guest · Jul 10, 2001

Iasked aquestion about what was the right operating temperature a while back! When Ilooked at certain refridgeration setups, seems you do needsome heat! So dont be too worried. Try it! Then if all goes wrong, contact Australian Antartic Division! WWW.anare.com.au.............More than happy to help you ok....PEnguins operate, so whats the drama, hehe. I cant see why ya would operate a big systemin a freezer anyway!

~OMG IT nearly melted, lucky I had the extra fan *inside* ~Edited by scotty3303 on 07/10/01 04:16 AM.

Stick_e_Mouse · Jul 10, 2001

if you plan on using a fridge or freezer, you have to worry about condensation.

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FatBurger · Jul 10, 2001

Scotty, let me guess...you don't speak English and you use a web-based translator?

------------------------------
My Athlon can beat your Ferrari off the line.

Guest · Jul 10, 2001

I suspect itsa flame!
You never know whois login on!

~OMG IT nearly melted, lucky I had the extra fan *inside* ~

Guest · Jul 10, 2001

Yup,
I Know. We'll have that covered.

Charlweed

Ncogneto · Jul 10, 2001

A word about condensation. Condensation is caused when moist (humid) air contacts a cold surface ( the warmer the air the more water vapor it can hold). Seeing how this setup would exist in a freezer and well below freezing it would be imposible for any water vapor to be in the air ( it would be ice). Therefore condensation would not be a problem.

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!

Crashman · Jul 10, 2001

If that were the case we would not need to defrost our freezers.

Cast not thine pearls before the swine

Guest · Jul 10, 2001

Crashman is right.
The problem is that anytime you open the freezer (or circulate air through it), humid air is introduced. The water vapor then condenses & freezes on the cold surfaces inside.

Unless you have very dry air, and/or rarely open the freezer, it's still an issue you need to consider.

Cognite Tute
(Think for Yourself)

Ncogneto · Jul 10, 2001

The water vapor then condenses & freezes on the cold surfaces inside.

but the cpu is not a cold surface, water condenses on cold surfaces not warm surfaces

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!

Ncogneto · Jul 10, 2001

I was in the midst of typing a response to Crashman's reply but then seen yours as to frost in a freezer....your reply was correct in this regards. However, what I stated still stands. Condensation would not be a concern in this case. Condensation in fact would be even much less likely to occur at the -100 degrees then it would if I were to lower my air conditioning to 50 degrees and run my computer. Facts are that there still would be considerably less water vapor (none actually) in the air to condensate. Furthermore, at -100 degrees, even if the door were to open the vapor would most certainly freeze instanteonsly at its entrance point, not find it way to the computer to condensate on the hottest surface in the freezer.

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!Edited by ncogneto on 07/09/01 10:14 PM.

Guest · Jul 10, 2001

The CPU isn't the only thing you have to worry about. For instance, what happens when you get frost or condensation in your PCI slots or power connectors? Maybe on the video card while the system is idle. The when you start playing quake and the frost melts...

I'm not saying it would happen, but it's a risk you need to consider.

Cognite Tute
(Think for Yourself)

Stick_e_Mouse · Jul 10, 2001

'tis true.

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Ncogneto · Jul 10, 2001

Nope sorry same still applies, condensation would not happen on these surfaces either. Condensation occurs when warm moist air contacts a cold surface. So unless the parts you mention are cooler than the ambient air....no condensation. I deal with condensation on a daily basis I now what I am talking about. But now, this being said, if we want to rain on this guys parade, we can. There are things to consider, much more important then condensation ( actually condensation aslo, but I will get to that.)

1) At -100 degrees I would be more afraid of certain parts of my body freezing and falling of, eyeballs freezing etc.

2) While the CPU will not condensate, mechanical devices very well may fail as there lubricants cease to function as they should.

3) Monitor, big problem here, turn it on and unless you have it heated it is sure to break.

4) and Finally for your condensation worry's, when you take the computer out of the feezer, NOW you have a problem as condinsation will form in some very bad places ( ie first that comes to mind in inside your hard drives casing.

So in conclusion, while condensation will not be an issue ( at least not while in the freezer) there would still be some major obstacles to overcome.

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!

Ncogneto · Jul 10, 2001

Now frost is something I have not considered....hmmmm that is a different creature in and of itself. Frost could occur if the parts you describe had moisture in them to begin with, but this is different than condensation.

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!

Guest · Jul 10, 2001

>Condensation occurs when warm moist air contacts a cold
>surface. So unless the parts you mention are cooler than
>the ambient air....no condensation.

Actually, colder then the dewpoint of the air, which will generally be less then ambient. But anyway, you don't think that components other then the CPU, MB bridges, GPU could get cold enough for condensation to occur? Particularly if the system is idle?

On my system, the MB sensor temp is only a few degrees above ambient (currently: room 24.5, MB 28.1). So if I put it in a freezer where ambient is -20C, I could expect the MB sensor temp to be well below freezing, and likely well below the dewpoint.

I guess it all comes down to which "ambient air" you're refering to? The components will likely be warmer then the freezer air when it's closed. But they'll likely be much colder then the air that comes in when you open it. If that air comes in contact with the components, it may condense.

I definitely wouldn't try this with the case cover removed. Keeping it closed will slow down the possible entry of that warm, humid air, giving it a chance to cool down and lose it's moisture somewhere else.

>I deal with condensation on a daily basis I now what I am
>talking about.

Sure. I'm not trying to be combative. But I know a bit of physics myself, and I'm not sure I agree with you completely.

>if we want to rain on this guys parade

That's not really my goal.

BTW: <A HREF="http://totl.net/Eunuch/index.html" target="_new">Here's an account</A> of some guys that supposdly tried this with a 486. Not sure how much I believe (did 486 MB have OC features?) and , at best, it was a short term experiment, so the issues we're discussing didn't come up.

Cognite Tute
(Think for Yourself)

Guest · Jul 10, 2001

Ok folks, more info.
Rack mounted imbedded Linux system.
NO MOVING PARTS. No HD, no monitor, no fans. It runs over the network to mine data, and grind algorithims.
The freezer is in industrial hard cooling unit in an R & D Lab. It is sealed for weeks at at time, and has an "air lock" from another freezer, that is a more traditional 10F below . No walk ins, no mosture.

So, can a PC board operate at -109.3F?

Charlweed

Guest · Jul 10, 2001

Ok, here's something from Intel

<A HREF="http://ftp://download.intel.com/support/motherboards/desktop/se440bx2/72163201.pdf" target="_new">http://ftp://download.intel.com/support/motherboards/desktop/se440bx2/72163201.pdf</A>

It's the spec sheet for one of the 440BX motherboards, I'd expect the newer stuff & AMD products to be similar.

Under environmental specs:

Temperature:
Non-Operating: -40C to 70C
Operating: 0C to 55C

Humidity simply says non-condensing.

So, officially, you're out of luck for operating @ -78C by quite a bit!

So, what is limiting this?

My first guess: The battery on the MB will cease to produce adequate power below 0C. Shouldn't be an issue for non-operating temp though.

My second guess: The difference in thermal expansion coefficients in the MB materials might lead to broken traces. Probably more relavent to the non-operating temp limits.

Anybody else?

Cognite Tute
(Think for Yourself)

Minimum operating temperatures?

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