MMORPG - Den for immature Kids?

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Recently I came back to RPG market,

My first MMORPG (not counting the old BBS games) was a recent venture into
an indie game advertised here no so long ago - Mordisle.
I don't want to generalize based on one indie MMORPG game but I am
concerned about this experience (wondering whether MMORPG is for me?)

Essentially, I found many of the juvenile antics in the PVP area
ridiculous. In fact I asked the age of one of the players, when he
answered 14 I apologized and said "I guess you are just acting your age"

Up until recently I though I was the only person in their 30's still
playing RPG's (the 1st CRPG played topic suggests otherwise - man you guys
were playing way back when I was :)

For fear of generalizing this expereincing I would just like to ask the
more experienced MMORPG players, is this commonplace?

THIS being immature trash talking, killing the same repeatedly etc... I
mean I like PVP and I Know some people need to get the short end of the
stick but aren't there any rules? (huge question I know)

Cheers,

Hawklan
 
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Hawklan wrote:
> Essentially, I found many of the juvenile antics in the PVP area
> ridiculous. In fact I asked the age of one of the players, when he
> answered 14 I apologized and said "I guess you are just acting your
age"

Why do you think that, when given the choice, most people prefer
non-PvP games to PvP? Particularly where it's level and gear-based, so
a player with ten more levels and the best gear in the game can gank
the average player with impunity?

Heck, you don't think that games like that would _attract_ the
immature, do you?

Mark
 
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Mean_Chlorine wrote:
> If you want MMORPG, people in this newsgroup seem to prefer City of
> Heroes, World of Warcraft, or Everquest2.

Or if you want fantasy PvP without ganking, Guild Wars is worth a look.
It's not a 'real' MMORPG since everything is instanced, but it is quite
fun and, because everything is instanced, it's more mission-based than
the traditional 'kill ten rats and bring me their ears and I'll give
you a rusty sword' MMORPG.

Mark
 
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Hawklan wrote:
> What is 'instanced' - remember I am new to MMORPG's.

In a traditional MMORPG there's one copy of each zone in the game, and
all players enter that zone: e.g. if a hundred players go into the
'Dungeon of Doom' zone then you'll see all ninety-nine other players
there with you.

In an instanced game, each group goes into their own copy of the zone.
So even if a hundred players go into the 'Dungeon of Doom', you'll only
see the other four or five people in your group there... for a hundred
people the server would be running 15-20 _different_ copies of the
'Dungeon of Doom' zone rather than just one.

Mark
 
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Saw the box and ws intrigued(by Guild Wars that is.)

What is 'instanced' - remember I am new to MMORPG's.

Cheers,
 
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"Hawklan" <kristan.miller@nospamdnd.ca> wrote in
news:92f4b76aa773e0993a0ae9499f664f6a@localhost.talkaboutcomputing.com:

> Essentially, I found many of the juvenile antics in the PVP area
> ridiculous. In fact I asked the age of one of the players, when he
> answered 14 I apologized and said "I guess you are just acting your
> age"

Yes 14 seems to be a common age for that type of thing. Im surprised at
how often it comes up. Must he hormonal or something.

> Up until recently I though I was the only person in their 30's still
> playing RPG's (the 1st CRPG played topic suggests otherwise - man you
> guys were playing way back when I was :)

Heehee. Im nearing half a century and more often than not I dont even win
the "oldest person" contest in even fairly small groups.

> THIS being immature trash talking, killing the same repeatedly etc...
> I mean I like PVP and I Know some people need to get the short end of
> the stick but aren't there any rules? (huge question I know)

Keep looking around. You will find one you like. Persently Im scouting
around in the free shards that work with the old Ultima Online software.
Lots of fun. But I see many that are obvious kiddy clubs, and others that
are run and played by much more mature people. It usually doesnt take
long to find out which is which. Ive found that those with language
controls tend to have an older player base.

Actually, I knew that long before. Its a basic truism from the MUD days
and even back to BBSs. The kids think that language rules are to make the
place a 'kiddy' place but it tends to have quite the oppossite affect

Gandalf Parker
 
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Hey good to hear from ya Gandalf,

I've heard alot about WOW. I like the world ( As experienced in past
games). The concept seems nice, other than technical issues how does it
hold up?

Can it be played as a CRPG? (I used to play Diablo online and offline
in multi-player for a thougher challenge when my characters got too
strong).

Cheers,
 
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"Hawklan" <kristan.miller@nospamdnd.ca> wrote in
news:f96476129a2d5028ef082b6f768e950d@localhost.talkaboutcomputing.com:

> Hey good to hear from ya Gandalf,
>
> I've heard alot about WOW. I like the world ( As experienced in past
> games). The concept seems nice, other than technical issues how does it
> hold up?

Believe it or not I havent tried that one yet. About the only one I havent.
:)

> Can it be played as a CRPG? (I used to play Diablo online and offline
> in multi-player for a thougher challenge when my characters got too
> strong).

I still jump into Diablo when I want a quick no-thought game. I wouldnt
mind them doing another one.

Im amazed that they keep those servers going.

Gandalf Parker
 
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Thusly "Hawklan" <kristan.miller@nospamdnd.ca> Spake Unto All:

>For fear of generalizing this expereincing I would just like to ask the
>more experienced MMORPG players, is this commonplace?

Not universal, but commonplace, yes.

>THIS being immature trash talking, killing the same repeatedly etc... I
>mean I like PVP and I Know some people need to get the short end of the
>stick but aren't there any rules? (huge question I know)

The bulk of the playerbase are juveniles. The c.s.i.p.g.r group is a
relic from the old days, WE'RE relics - most of the people playing
MMORPGs don't even know the newsgroups exist.

You can get enjoyable multiplayer RPG'ing, but you need to find good
people. The easiest and most agreeable is to gather your own friends
into a LAN session of Neverwinter Nights or Diablo II.

There was an attempt at catering to a more mature audience of MMORPG
players in A Tale In The Desert, but it sortof went overboard in the
other direction. I think it's still around if you want to check it
out.

If you want MMORPG, people in this newsgroup seem to prefer City of
Heroes, World of Warcraft, or Everquest2.

>Hawklan

--
Fun Fact of the Day: In exit polls at the election 2004 the percentage of American
voters citing moral and ethical values as their prime concern was 22 percent,
continuing a trend of *decreasing* perceived importance of morals: In the 2000
election 35 percent cited morals & ethical values as their prime concern, and in
1996 a whopping 40%, almost twice as many as in 2004.
(Bet you hadn't gotten that impression from the press, had you?)
 

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On 2005-03-31, Mean_Chlorine <mike_noren2002@NOSPAMyahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> The bulk of the playerbase are juveniles. The c.s.i.p.g.r group is a
> relic from the old days, WE'RE relics - most of the people playing
> MMORPGs don't even know the newsgroups exist.

Very true. In fact the reason is this newsgroup barely serves a
purpose anymore. Pre-google and pre-most-of-the-web we came here
to ask questions, write faqs about games, and discuss them. Now
you're better off using a web forum, kiddiness aside, there's
more content there.
 
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shadows wrote:

> On 2005-03-31, Mean_Chlorine <mike_noren2002@NOSPAMyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>>The bulk of the playerbase are juveniles. The c.s.i.p.g.r group is a
>>relic from the old days, WE'RE relics - most of the people playing
>>MMORPGs don't even know the newsgroups exist.
>
>
> Very true. In fact the reason is this newsgroup barely serves a
> purpose anymore. Pre-google and pre-most-of-the-web we came here
> to ask questions, write faqs about games, and discuss them. Now
> you're better off using a web forum, kiddiness aside, there's
> more content there.

*shudder* I'd sooner dive into a swimming pool filled with double edged
razor blades than spend one more minute in a web forum (thanks weird al!)
 
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Stay away from the non-RP servers in WOW. The non-RP servers is where the
kiddie set tends to hang out.

Jonah Falcon
 
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On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 17:01:29 GMT, Jonah Falcon wrote:

> Stay away from the non-RP servers in WOW. The non-RP servers is where the
> kiddie set tends to hang out.
>
> Jonah Falcon

Unfortunately having "RP" next to a server name is no ward against the
juvenile mindset. There are not enough GMs in *any* MMOG to police every
server (and the policeing they *do* do is so watered down as to be either
pointless or ineffective). You might run into the "RP Nazi"* as often as
the juvenile ganker. Either way it is usually an unpleasant experience.

*When will people learn that phrasing questions with "thou" and "art" is
*not* roleplaying.
--
RJB
3/31/2005 2:25:59 PM

Hanlon's Razor:
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by
stupidity."
-Anon.
 
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If an MMORPG has an RP (role playing) server, head there. They're more
closely moderated, and far less kiddies there.

Jonah Falcon
 
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"Hawklan" <kristan.miller@nospamdnd.ca> once tried to test me with:

> THIS being immature trash talking, killing the same repeatedly etc... I
> mean I like PVP and I Know some people need to get the short end of the
> stick but aren't there any rules? (huge question I know)

LOL, WTF, OMG. N3wb. I pwnz j000!

(ahem)

Yeah, people can be pricks online.

I still really enjoy World of Warcraft though. When it works.

--

Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com

Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.
 
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James Garvin wrote:

> shadows wrote:
>
>> On 2005-03-31, Mean_Chlorine <mike_noren2002@NOSPAMyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> The bulk of the playerbase are juveniles. The c.s.i.p.g.r group is a
>>> relic from the old days, WE'RE relics - most of the people playing
>>> MMORPGs don't even know the newsgroups exist.
>>
>>
>>
>> Very true. In fact the reason is this newsgroup barely serves a
>> purpose anymore. Pre-google and pre-most-of-the-web we came here
>> to ask questions, write faqs about games, and discuss them. Now
>> you're better off using a web forum, kiddiness aside, there's
>> more content there.
>
>
> *shudder* I'd sooner dive into a swimming pool filled with double edged
> razor blades than spend one more minute in a web forum (thanks weird al!)

Ah, but would you rather clean all the bathrooms in Grand Central
Station with your tongue?
 
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Knight37 wrote:

> "Hawklan" <kristan.miller@nospamdnd.ca> once tried to test me with:
>
>
>>THIS being immature trash talking, killing the same repeatedly etc... I
>>mean I like PVP and I Know some people need to get the short end of the
>>stick but aren't there any rules? (huge question I know)
>
>
> LOL, WTF, OMG. N3wb. I pwnz j000!

OMGWTFBBQ! What does "pwnz j000" translate to in adult?
 
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Thx for the info,

Unfortunately it looks like my early impressions of MMORPG can be
generalized to WOW. I am sad in a sense because I see so much potential
for solid, strategic gaming with online play.

Back in the day on BBS's playing games like Trade Wars showed that
potential. I think I will stay away from WOW and just keep playing CRPG's.
Just played BG2 for the first time!

Cheers & Thanks,

Hawklan
 
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Hawklan wrote:

> Thx for the info,
>
> Unfortunately it looks like my early impressions of MMORPG can be
> generalized to WOW. I am sad in a sense because I see so much potential
> for solid, strategic gaming with online play.
>
> Back in the day on BBS's playing games like Trade Wars showed that
> potential. I think I will stay away from WOW and just keep playing CRPG's.
> Just played BG2 for the first time!

They really should make a Trade Wars MMORPG!
 

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Thus spake Troll <newstroll@shaw.ca>, Fri, 01 Apr 2005 06:31:09 GMT, Anno
Domini:

>Knight37 wrote:
>
>> "Hawklan" <kristan.miller@nospamdnd.ca> once tried to test me with:
>>
>>
>>>THIS being immature trash talking, killing the same repeatedly etc... I
>>>mean I like PVP and I Know some people need to get the short end of the
>>>stick but aren't there any rules? (huge question I know)
>>
>>
>> LOL, WTF, OMG. N3wb. I pwnz j000!
>
>OMGWTFBBQ! What does "pwnz j000" translate to in adult?

there ya go....:)

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"Hawklan" <kristan.miller@nospamdnd.ca> wrote in message
news:92f4b76aa773e0993a0ae9499f664f6a@localhost.talkaboutcomputing.com...
> Recently I came back to RPG market,
>
> My first MMORPG (not counting the old BBS games) was a recent venture into
> an indie game advertised here no so long ago - Mordisle.
> I don't want to generalize based on one indie MMORPG game but I am
> concerned about this experience (wondering whether MMORPG is for me?)
>
> Essentially, I found many of the juvenile antics in the PVP area
> ridiculous. In fact I asked the age of one of the players, when he
> answered 14 I apologized and said "I guess you are just acting your age"
>
> Up until recently I though I was the only person in their 30's still
> playing RPG's (the 1st CRPG played topic suggests otherwise - man you guys
> were playing way back when I was :)
>
> For fear of generalizing this expereincing I would just like to ask the
> more experienced MMORPG players, is this commonplace?
>
> THIS being immature trash talking, killing the same repeatedly etc... I
> mean I like PVP and I Know some people need to get the short end of the
> stick but aren't there any rules? (huge question I know)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Hawklan
>

There are certainly some guilds in these games composed exclusively of
adults. Try advertising, I'm sure they would be happy to recruit someone
with a driver's license who also shaves regularly.
 
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<mmaker@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1112285876.522696.238460@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Hawklan wrote:
>> What is 'instanced' - remember I am new to MMORPG's.
>
> In a traditional MMORPG there's one copy of each zone in the game, and
> all players enter that zone: e.g. if a hundred players go into the
> 'Dungeon of Doom' zone then you'll see all ninety-nine other players
> there with you.
>
> In an instanced game, each group goes into their own copy of the zone.
> So even if a hundred players go into the 'Dungeon of Doom', you'll only
> see the other four or five people in your group there... for a hundred
> people the server would be running 15-20 _different_ copies of the
> 'Dungeon of Doom' zone rather than just one.
>
> Mark

Well, that throws me off Guild Wars for good -- I didn't know. I don't like
the isolation produced by instanced dungeons. I can play a single-player
game for that.
 
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Grackle wrote:
> That takes away the most important aspect of an mmorpg, which is to
have
> people inhabiting the same world as yourself.

If you like camping, kill-stealing, ninja-looting, training, respawning
mobs and all the other delights that occur in MMOGs as a result. I'm
not a huge fan of instancing either, but it does have big benefits if
you want to create an online game that's more like a traditional RPG.

> All single-player rpgs
> are essentially linear storylines with milestones that trigger new
events.

As are the 'story' missions in Guild Wars. Again, I'm not convinced
it's the best way to design a game, but for the game they've developed,
it works pretty well.

Mark
 

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Thus spake "Grackle" <nobody@lalaland.ca>, Sat, 2 Apr 2005 17:19:52 -0500,
Anno Domini:

><mmaker@my-deja.com> wrote in message
>news:1112285876.522696.238460@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>> Hawklan wrote:
>>> What is 'instanced' - remember I am new to MMORPG's.
>>
>> In a traditional MMORPG there's one copy of each zone in the game, and
>> all players enter that zone: e.g. if a hundred players go into the
>> 'Dungeon of Doom' zone then you'll see all ninety-nine other players
>> there with you.
>>
>> In an instanced game, each group goes into their own copy of the zone.
>> So even if a hundred players go into the 'Dungeon of Doom', you'll only
>> see the other four or five people in your group there... for a hundred
>> people the server would be running 15-20 _different_ copies of the
>> 'Dungeon of Doom' zone rather than just one.
>>
>> Mark
>
>Well, that throws me off Guild Wars for good -- I didn't know. I don't like
>the isolation produced by instanced dungeons. I can play a single-player
>game for that.

I posted a suggestion for a semi-mmog concept a couple months back that I
thought would have a market: basically, you have a decent SP/co-op style
crpg (ala Gothic1/2, NWN, etc. Then you create an online framework for it,
kinda like D2/Guildwars where you can chat, trade & do other non-ingame
stuff. So, you get the feeling of a mmorpg, but you can still be the central
focus of the storyline (because the entire game is *your* instanced version,
along with none, 1 or more friends for co-op play. Games like BG1/2's style
would even benefit from this approach. You would have Steam-like *duck*
online content updates (w/o the bullshit manual patching); you could get
help & maybe even 'call in' a mate or two for a particularly tough battle,
rather than use dumb NPCs. The beauty of it is, you'd feel like you were in
a thriving, living world, with real people for background chatter. Perhaps
even common inns & taverns (with limited players per instance) where people
can 'team-up'. Of course, any progress has to apply to the host's world
snapshot, or optionally to all (but handled much better than D2's mission
structure which was just beggin to be exploited from day 1). Different
players could even be playing in different adventures/modules/area as part
of the illusion of a seamless world, but again, each players controls his
own character, savegames & quest progress. The way mmogs do it today leaves
a lot to be desired, with the storyline & quest depth & complexity
suffering. There's gotta a be a better way where everyone can feel like the
central hero, rather than a treadmill hamster or sheep *sigh*...

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"Nostromo" <nostromo@spamfree.net.au> wrote in message
news:eek:i8v41tmnr2cs4sblh8tninj19l04mvgc4@4ax.com...
> Thus spake "Grackle" <nobody@lalaland.ca>, Sat, 2 Apr 2005 17:19:52 -0500,
> Anno Domini:
>
>><mmaker@my-deja.com> wrote in message
>>news:1112285876.522696.238460@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>>> Hawklan wrote:
>>>> What is 'instanced' - remember I am new to MMORPG's.
>>>
>>> In a traditional MMORPG there's one copy of each zone in the game, and
>>> all players enter that zone: e.g. if a hundred players go into the
>>> 'Dungeon of Doom' zone then you'll see all ninety-nine other players
>>> there with you.
>>>
>>> In an instanced game, each group goes into their own copy of the zone.
>>> So even if a hundred players go into the 'Dungeon of Doom', you'll only
>>> see the other four or five people in your group there... for a hundred
>>> people the server would be running 15-20 _different_ copies of the
>>> 'Dungeon of Doom' zone rather than just one.
>>>
>>> Mark
>>
>>Well, that throws me off Guild Wars for good -- I didn't know. I don't
>>like
>>the isolation produced by instanced dungeons. I can play a single-player
>>game for that.
>
> I posted a suggestion for a semi-mmog concept a couple months back that I
> thought would have a market: basically, you have a decent SP/co-op style
> crpg (ala Gothic1/2, NWN, etc. Then you create an online framework for it,
> kinda like D2/Guildwars where you can chat, trade & do other non-ingame
> stuff. So, you get the feeling of a mmorpg, but you can still be the
> central
> focus of the storyline (because the entire game is *your* instanced
> version,
> along with none, 1 or more friends for co-op play. Games like BG1/2's
> style
> would even benefit from this approach. You would have Steam-like *duck*
> online content updates (w/o the bullshit manual patching); you could get
> help & maybe even 'call in' a mate or two for a particularly tough battle,
> rather than use dumb NPCs. The beauty of it is, you'd feel like you were
> in
> a thriving, living world, with real people for background chatter. Perhaps
> even common inns & taverns (with limited players per instance) where
> people
> can 'team-up'. Of course, any progress has to apply to the host's world
> snapshot, or optionally to all (but handled much better than D2's mission
> structure which was just beggin to be exploited from day 1). Different
> players could even be playing in different adventures/modules/area as part
> of the illusion of a seamless world, but again, each players controls his
> own character, savegames & quest progress. The way mmogs do it today
> leaves
> a lot to be desired, with the storyline & quest depth & complexity
> suffering. There's gotta a be a better way where everyone can feel like
> the
> central hero, rather than a treadmill hamster or sheep *sigh*...
>
> --
> Replace 'spamfree' with the other word for 'maze' to reply via email.

That takes away the most important aspect of an mmorpg, which is to have
people inhabiting the same world as yourself. In your system, the chat
would work fine (although it can lead to quest spoilers), but the item
trading would cause 'synchronization problems' because not everyone in the
single-player game has progressed to the same place. All single-player rpgs
are essentially linear storylines with milestones that trigger new events.