mob justice / mass destruction

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Hi !

I got a little question. Let's say I have 20 creature tokens in play,
it's one of my main phases and I play Mob justice. In response my
opponent activates his Nevinyrral's Disk. Assuming nothing else happens,
how much damage does the Mob justice do ?




Mob Justice
{1}{R}
Sorcery
Mob Justice deals to target player damage equal to the number of
creatures you control.




Nevinyrral's Disk
{4}
Artifact
Nevinyrral's Disk comes into play tapped.
{1}, {T}: Destroy all artifacts, creatures, and enchantments.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

"M.G.Palmer" <SatoshiUrotsukidoji@gmx.de> writes:
> I got a little question. Let's say I have 20 creature tokens in play,
> it's one of my main phases and I play Mob justice. In response my
> opponent activates his Nevinyrral's Disk. Assuming nothing else
> happens, how much damage does the Mob justice do ?

Zero.

The number of creatures is counted during resolution, so since you
won't have any creatures in play at that time, it won't do much.

--
Peter C.
"Uncle Cosmo ... why do they call this a word processor?"
"It's simple, Skyler ... you've seen what food processors do to food, right?"
-- MacNelley, "Shoe"
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 14:00:10 +0200, "M.G.Palmer"
<SatoshiUrotsukidoji@gmx.de> wrote:

>Hi !
>
>I got a little question. Let's say I have 20 creature tokens in play,
>it's one of my main phases and I play Mob justice. In response my
>opponent activates his Nevinyrral's Disk. Assuming nothing else happens,
>how much damage does the Mob justice do ?

The disk's ability will resolve before your Justice will, so it will
attempt to destroy all artifacts, creatures, and enchantments. All
that will be left after that are things that are indestructible or
have been regenerated. Only those surviving things will be counted
when the Justice resolves. In your specific case, it appears that
none of your tokens would survive, so 0 damage would be dealt by your
Justice.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Peter Cooper Jr. wrote:
> "M.G.Palmer" <SatoshiUrotsukidoji@gmx.de> writes:
>
>>I got a little question. Let's say I have 20 creature tokens in play,
>>it's one of my main phases and I play Mob justice. In response my
>>opponent activates his Nevinyrral's Disk. Assuming nothing else
>>happens, how much damage does the Mob justice do ?
>
>
> Zero.
>
> The number of creatures is counted during resolution, so since you
> won't have any creatures in play at that time, it won't do much.
>

Thx. I guess that this applies to other cards as well, i.e. if the card
says "do x for the number of y in z", that it's checked on resolution
and not when playing the spell/ability ?
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

M.G.Palmer, worshipped by llamas the world over, wrote...
> Peter Cooper Jr. wrote:
> > "M.G.Palmer" <SatoshiUrotsukidoji@gmx.de> writes:
> >
> >>I got a little question. Let's say I have 20 creature tokens in play,
> >>it's one of my main phases and I play Mob justice. In response my
> >>opponent activates his Nevinyrral's Disk. Assuming nothing else
> >>happens, how much damage does the Mob justice do ?
> >
> >
> > Zero.
> >
> > The number of creatures is counted during resolution, so since you
> > won't have any creatures in play at that time, it won't do much.
> >
>
> Thx. I guess that this applies to other cards as well, i.e. if the card
> says "do x for the number of y in z", that it's checked on resolution
> and not when playing the spell/ability ?

In general, yes. A few things are set/checked on announcement -
targets, modes, whether you're paying any alternate or additional costs,
and so on. Section 409 in the Comprehensive Rulebook covers this, well,
comprehensively; anything that's not mentioned there doesn't have to be
set/checked/chosen/whatevered until resolution.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

M.G.Palmer <SatoshiUrotsukidoji@gmx.de> wrote:
>I got a little question. Let's say I have 20 creature tokens in play,
>it's one of my main phases and I play Mob justice. In response my
>opponent activates his Nevinyrral's Disk. Assuming nothing else happens,
>how much damage does the Mob justice do ?
>
>Mob Justice 1R Sorcery
> ~ deals to target player damage equal to the number of creatures you control.

None, assuming nothing here you didn't tell us. Because:

>Nevinyrral's Disk 4 Artifact
> ~ comes into play tapped. / 1,Tap: Destroy all artifacts, creatures, and
> enchantments.

....this ability goes on the stack on top of the Mob Justice. So it resolves
first, destroying all creatures (and itself, among other things). And that
means that when Mob Justice resolves, and counts creatures-you-control, it
gets the answer "0".

Mob Justice has no reason to "count creatures on announcement" - it doesn't
say to do this, and the rules don't give this as one of the actions done on
announcement of a spell or ability. (Compare this wording with that of
Volcanic Wind, which DOES so say, because it has to know how big X is before
you can _pay the spell's mana cost_...).

In general, information a spell or ability needs from the game, that wasn't
set on announcement by 409.1a-1i, is read in on resolution. And here that
means that, barring indestructible creatures, regenerated creatures, etc.,
which weren't mentioned, it'll see "zero" for number of creatures you control.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

M.G.Palmer sez:

<<
>I got a little question. Let's say I have 20 creature tokens in play,
>it's one of my main phases and I play Mob justice. In response my
>opponent activates his Nevinyrral's Disk. Assuming nothing else happens,
>how much damage does the Mob justice do ?

>
>>

Zero, unfortunately. The Justice checks the number of creatures for damage on
resolution, and by then, the Disk has finished going off.


----
If [Michael Moore] makes a mistake in [F 9/11], it's not that he's careless
with the facts ... It's that he suggests Bush is the cause of our problems,
when, in fact, Bush is just the result.
--The Libertarian Lessons of Fahrenheit 9/11
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Thanks everybody.

I hate the disk, mainly because one of our playgroup's members plays it
a lot, and also because i don't have any 😉
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 23:19:35 +0200, "M.G.Palmer"
<SatoshiUrotsukidoji@gmx.de> wrote:

>Thanks everybody.
>
>I hate the disk, mainly because one of our playgroup's members plays it
>a lot, and also because i don't have any 😉

Time to get some indestructible artifact creatures. Or a Darksteel
Forge or two!
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

am i right that the main time a number is set at time of play not
during resolution is when the number has to be used in paying for the
spell/ability

On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 15:08:18 GMT, Jeff Heikkinen <oh@s.if> wrote:

>M.G.Palmer, worshipped by llamas the world over, wrote...
>> Peter Cooper Jr. wrote:
>> > "M.G.Palmer" <SatoshiUrotsukidoji@gmx.de> writes:
>> >
>> >>I got a little question. Let's say I have 20 creature tokens in play,
>> >>it's one of my main phases and I play Mob justice. In response my
>> >>opponent activates his Nevinyrral's Disk. Assuming nothing else
>> >>happens, how much damage does the Mob justice do ?
>> >
>> >
>> > Zero.
>> >
>> > The number of creatures is counted during resolution, so since you
>> > won't have any creatures in play at that time, it won't do much.
>> >
>>
>> Thx. I guess that this applies to other cards as well, i.e. if the card
>> says "do x for the number of y in z", that it's checked on resolution
>> and not when playing the spell/ability ?
>
>In general, yes. A few things are set/checked on announcement -
>targets, modes, whether you're paying any alternate or additional costs,
>and so on. Section 409 in the Comprehensive Rulebook covers this, well,
>comprehensively; anything that's not mentioned there doesn't have to be
>set/checked/chosen/whatevered until resolution.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Gareth Pye <gareth@gpsatsys.com.au> wrote:

> am i right that the main time a number is set at time of play not
> during resolution is when the number has to be used in paying for the
> spell/ability

The thing to remember is that the game does not look up information in
advance unless it has to (in which case it is, arguably, not in
advance).

For example, any numbers used in making a payment have to be checked by
the time the payment is made. The number of targets has to be
identified (sometimes by explicit card text, sometimes by arbitrary
decision) by the time the targets are chosen. Since the division of
Volcanic Wind's X damage has to be determined during announcement, the
value of X must be identified during announcement. If a spell/ability
requires that a target have or lack a certain color, the
presence/absence of that color must be checked when the target is chosen
(in addition to when the spell/ability resolves). And so on.

Volcanic Wind
{4}{R}{R}
Sorcery
Volcanic Wind deals X damage divided as you choose among any number of
target creatures, where X is the number of creatures in play as you play
Volcanic Wind.
--
Daniel W. Johnson
panoptes@iquest.net
http://members.iquest.net/~panoptes/
039 53 36 N / 086 11 55 W
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Gareth Pye <gareth@gpsatsys.com.au> wrote:
>am i right that the main time a number is set at time of play not
>during resolution is when the number has to be used in paying for the
>spell/ability

Main, yes. But if you want to figure out _exactly_ what's set on announcement?
Find the rulebook
(http://www.wizards.com/magic/comprules/MagicCompRules060104.txt)
and read through section 409.1* - that details the steps in order of
announcement. A few of the steps only get used once in a while, but every spell
and activated ability has a cost to pay... whereas no triggered ability has
costs to pay on announcement.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
 
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