Mobility Radeon Vs. GeForce M: The CrossFire Advantage

[Crashman]

Nvidia sells the fastest mobile graphics processor you can buy, but notebook manufactures can fit two of AMD’s top modules in in the same space. Eurocom’s X8100 Leopard answers the question: can two Mobility Radeon HD 5870 modules beat a single GTX 480M?

Mobility Radeon Vs. GeForce M: The CrossFire Advantage : Read more

 

[lashton]

the fermio acrh. cant compete against ATI in the mobile market simply because of design implementations, its physically larger, its an OK review if the nVidia card was faster there would have been more review about it

 

[lunyone]

Shocker here! NOT! This wasn't anything new, but it's nice to see it all spelled out and on paper (benchmarks). Just think you can have a single 5870 (mobile) chip that produces about 90-95% of the 480 GPU for about 70% of the price?? I know where I'd put my $ if I had it to spend.

 

[tony singh]

The reason nvidia price is higher is because making geforces is more expensive than making radeons, nvidia needs more transistors to reach or beat amd level, hence we can say that hd 5xxx is considerably more efficient than gtx400.

 

[Crashman]

[citation][nom]tony singh[/nom]The reason nvidia price is higher is because making geforces is more expensive than making radeons[/citation]And we saw how that worked out in the auto industry for General Motors. A company must base its prices on worth, not cost.

 

[dEAne]

Nvidia is always an expensive video technology.

 

[Guest]

"...but notebook manufactures can fit two of AMD’s top modules in in the same space."

This affirms it, Fermi is a FAT joke...

 

[ggman]

nice review, nothing shocking though we all know the GTX480M is a downclocked GTX465 and the HD5870M is an underclocked 5770. thumbs up for Ati but lets see how will the new Mobile GPUs from nvidia hold up

 

[alidan]

[citation][nom]Crashman[/nom]And we saw how that worked out in the auto industry for General Motors. A company must base its prices on worth, not cost.[/citation]

now correct me if im wrong, and i may as well be. but chips, as in the cpu, gpu, anything that takes massive r&d costs, cost almost noting to make, in the big picture.

intel so long as they have the fastest processor with little to no competition, prices there products, that may cost in total materials and man hours, maybe 50$ at most, and sells them for 1000$ each to recup the plants cost to manufacture, and the r&d. and if any of the rummors during the femri are to be believed, they had ALLOT to recupe and they need to do it somewhere, with amd pricing lower than they do for close to if not better preforming cards (in the price range) desktop isn't making them there money back fast. so why not gaming laptop where you have less of a choice what goes in.

thats just my opinion though

 

[liquidsnake718]

Yes, some more face time for te 5850!

It just shows the true manufactoring win that AMD/ATi has accomplished in the past year with such a cool and low power GPU in the cypress and the rest of the radeon 5xxx class. With low heat and TDP requirments, AMD can also take the crown for mobile gaming. Im sure this also helps a tad in the battery life, however we have yet to see crazy gaming laptops hit the 2plus hour mark for movies and games. This is a shame because the first one that can lastat least 3 hours on its highest settings will be a true winner for those looking to spend a wad of cash on a mobile system that can rival midstream desktops.

I cant help but laugh as my system is now a "mid-level" system and is comparable lthough not better than a laptop!

Keep these reviews going as they are interesting hen comparing two products in different categories. Maybe we can also see those 12inch ion netbooks vs low end gaming laptops.

guess crossfire on mobile platforms

 

[doron]

Always a pleasure to read your reviews Thomas

 

[Crashman]

[citation][nom]alidan[/nom]now correct me if im wrong, and i may as well be. but chips, as in the cpu, gpu, anything that takes massive r&d costs, cost almost noting to make, in the big picture.intel so long as they have the fastest processor with little to no competition, prices there products, that may cost in total materials and man hours, maybe 50$ at most, and sells them for 1000$ each to recup the plants cost to manufacture, and the r&d. and if any of the rummors during the femri are to be believed, they had ALLOT to recupe and they need to do it somewhere, with amd pricing lower than they do for close to if not better preforming cards (in the price range) desktop isn't making them there money back fast. so why not gaming laptop where you have less of a choice what goes in. thats just my opinion though[/citation]

The production cost is usually small compared to the engineering cost, but in the case of the GF100 it's not so clear. The GF100 GPU is fairly large, wafers are fairly expensive, and I don't think Nvidia's yields are all that high on GF100 parts. They could probably make a more powerful mobile GPU at lower cost using the GF104.

I'm going to take a wild guess that the 480M costs around $100 more to make than the Mobility 5870, since it has both a more-expensive GPU and higher memory density. It also performs better. The problem is, it doesn't perform 100% better yet is priced over 100% higher, a fact that should make it hard to sell once people read reviews like this one.

 

[theholylancer]

[citation][nom]TheCapulet[/nom]Then why the hell did you comment, dipshit?As far as the article, we all knew this was coming. But what is Nvidia thinking, pricing their mobile chips so far ahead of the AMD chips? There's almost no noticeable difference between a single 480m and M-5870, yet even with Xfire chips, the ATI is still $200 lower? Nvidia has really stepped up to the plate in the desktop market, to compete with AMD. But they're so far out of touch here, you have to wonder who in their right mind is holding the wheel here.[/citation]
you know you get ribbons for commenting here at toms right? that kind of crap encourages achievements whores to do things like this.

on the note of the laptop, I have to ask if they can utilize the whole desktop CF deal to turn OFF one of the two CF cards when on battery without rebooting (the desktop 5000 cards can idle with just one card enabled, and the second card kicks in when needed) or are they gimped driver wise again?

also does the lappy's bios allows things like vt-x and what ever else extensions intel put in there on the cpu, i know at least my acer burned me and i can't do 64 bit os virtualization because of it.

 

[alidan]

[citation][nom]Crashman[/nom]The production cost is usually small compared to the engineering cost, but in the case of the GF100 it's not so clear. The GF100 GPU is fairly large, wafers are fairly expensive, and I don't think Nvidia's yields are all that high on GF100 parts. They could probably make a more powerful mobile GPU at lower cost using the GF104.I'm going to take a wild guess that the 480M costs around $100 more to make than the Mobility 5870, since it has both a more-expensive GPU and higher memory density. It also performs better. The problem is, it doesn't perform 100% better yet is priced over 100% higher, a fact that should make it hard to sell once people read reviews like this one.[/citation]

someone correct me here, but a wafer costs 50000 to produce beginning to end.

i dont know the size of it, but i believe if they cut cuda cores, the size of the chip is now lesser too.

im not looking hard, but i cant find the transistor count on wiki, so i cant see how much lesser the chip is, or if its just clocked lower for heat and power preservation

 

[tu_illegalamigo]

Generally speaking, i`m not surprised that a decent crossfire setup beats a crippled first run Fermi. I`m in agreement with those who think a newer iteration of Fermi would give Nvidia better performance, but this generation, the 5xxx series has been wiping the floor with Nvidia, they`re behind and trying to catch up. As for the laptop itself, that is way too much for me to want to use, it`s barely what i`d call mobile. I`d rather carry my Matx and an LCD in my lanparty backpack. (which even then I dont want to do.

 

[Crashman]

[citation][nom]alidan[/nom]someone correct me here, but a wafer costs 50000 to produce beginning to end. i dont know the size of it, but i believe if they cut cuda cores, the size of the chip is now lesser too. im not looking hard, but i cant find the transistor count on wiki, so i cant see how much lesser the chip is, or if its just clocked lower for heat and power preservation[/citation]No, they're not cutting the chip, it's a full GTX 480 GPU with many of the circuits disabled but still present.

 

[jdn]

Now lets see how well XFire stands up to 480M SLI. It wouldn't really be a fair fight, either in terms of power consumption, or price. But it's always fun to see the extremes of performance.
And yes, you can do SLI 480M (and a 6 core cpu while you are at it... )
http://rjtech.com/shop/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=30010

 

[coldmast]

So mobility HD 5870 xfire = 5850 Desktop. Good to know.

 

[Crashman]

[citation][nom]jdn[/nom]Now lets see how well XFire stands up to 480M SLI. It wouldn't really be a fair fight, either in terms of power consumption, or price. But it's always fun to see the extremes of performance. And yes, you can do SLI 480M (and a 6 core cpu while you are at it... )http://rjtech.com/shop/index.php?d [...] t_id=30010[/citation]
Yeh, you can SLI two 480M, but not in this chassis. You need a thicker chassis, and then take away drive bays to make room for larger coolers.

 

[ray-ng]

Having 480Ms in SLI seems a little too much imo. I mean, the sheer amount of space and cooling needed for 2 of them doesn't allow for much space for additional components... Right? Well, I already know the whole thing with the need for a larger chassis and all, but seriously, how much larger do laptops/desktop replacements need to be?

 

[hixbot]

This would be cool if microstuttering wasn't an issue anymore but it still is.

 

[scook9]

[citation][nom]ray-ng[/nom]Having 480Ms in SLI seems a little too much imo. I mean, the sheer amount of space and cooling needed for 2 of them doesn't allow for much space for additional components... Right? Well, I already know the whole thing with the need for a larger chassis and all, but seriously, how much larger do laptops/desktop replacements need to be?[/citation]

Actually the x7200 takes as many hard drives as the x8100. As for the cooling, in the x7200 the GTX 480m's have the same cooler that is on the 5870m's right now. The GTX 480m with that dual cooler is just better cooled in the x8100. I wonder if the single GPU x7200s will use that same dual cooler or not

And for whoever was talking about the 3 hour battery life, in my M17x R1 I can get 3.5 hours battery life due to the integrated 9400m. I can watch 1.5 blu-ray movies with it

Then I can go and get 14-15k gpu score in vantage (Depending on cooling measures taken) when using the 4870s

 

[scook9]

OMFG. yes thumb me down, I am an idiot

[citation][nom]Crashman[/nom]Yeh, you can SLI two 480M, but not in this chassis. You need a thicker chassis, and then take away drive bays to make room for larger coolers.[/citation]

 

[Crashman]

[citation][nom]scook9[/nom]OMFG. yes thumb me down, I am an idiot[/citation]
According to Eurocom, the X8100 can't support two GTX 480M due to the additional cooling requirements. They do have a thicker notebook with a smaller screen and more room internally, that supports two GTX 480M and a desktop Core i7 CPU. I was really surprised to see how small this 18.4" notebook is internally.

 

[rolled]

Very interesting, can tom's do an article on how much stuff and how long you can run those laptops until they burst in flame?