Monk Variant - Too Powerful?

[presto]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

After seeing "The Sidewinder Monk" in Dragon #331, I thought I'd give it a
go at a variant monk, from the Order of the Badger.

I picture this being an order composed mainly of races with close ties to
the earth (dwarves, gnomes, etc.), and the mindset is based almost entirely
on offense and testing your mettle directly in the face of your adversaries.
I haaven't got any of the rulebooks with me; all the changes come from the
SRD.

I'd like people's opinions on this. Is it too powerful? Is it too close to
being a barbarian? Is it BETTER than a barbarian to the point where this
would replace barbarian in your game?

Thanks a lot.


Order of the Badger

Level Special
1st Bonus Feat, Flurry of Blows, Unarmed Strike
2nd Bonus Feat, Light Fortification
3rd Scent, Rage 1/day
4th Damage reduction 1/-, Ki strike (magic)
5th Rage 2/day, Purity of body
6th Bonus Feat, Rage 2/day
7th Burrow 5 ft., Fast Healing 1/2
8th Damage reduction 2/-
9th Rage 3/day
10th Medium Fortification, Ki strike (lawful)
11th Diamond Body, Greater Flurry
12th Damage Reduction 3/-, Abundant Step
13th Rage 4/day, Diamond Soul
14th Burrow 10 ft.
15th Quivering Palm
16th Damage reduction 4/-, Heavy Fortification, Ki strike (adamantine)
17th Rage 5/day, Timeless Body, Tongue of the Sun and Moon
18th Heavy Fortification
19th Empty Body
20th Perfect Self, Damage Reduction 5/-

Class Skills: A badger monk swaps out Escape Artist (Dex) from his class
skills list for Intimidate (Cha).

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Same as normal monk weapon and armor
proficiencies, with the following exceptions; javelin and shuriken are
removed from the list, and replaced with punching dagger and spiked
gauntlet. Badger monks focus very little on ranged combat, and prefer their
combat up close, so smaller, close-quarters weapons are preferred.

HP Bonus (Ex): When unarmored and encumbered, Badger monks add half their
Strength Bonus (if any) per level to their hit point total. In addition,
Badger monks receive the Toughness feat at 5th level, and again every 5
levels thereafter. This replaces the normal monk's AC Bonus.

Bonus Feat: At 1st level, a monk may select either Improved Grapple or
Stunning Fist as a bonus feat. At 2nd level, she may select either Improved
Bull Rush or Cleave as a bonus feat. At 6th level, she may select either
Improved Sunder or Whirlwind Attack as a bonus feat. A monk need not have
any of the prerequisites normally required for these feats to select them.

Fortification (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, a Badger monk is able to protect
vital areas of his body more effectively. When a critical hit or sneak
attack is scored on the badger monk, there is a 25 percent chance that the
critical hit or sneak attack is negated and damage is instead rolled
normally. At 10th level, that chance is increased to 75%, and at 18th,
level, the chance is 100%, effectively making the badger monk immune to
critical hits and sneak attacks. This ability replaces the normal monk's
Evasion and Improved Evasion abilities.

Scent (Ex): At 3rd level, badger monks gain the scent ability. This
replaces a normal monk's Still Mind ability.

Rage (Ex): At 3rd level, an unarmored, unencumbered badger monk is able to
focus his will into a rage similar to the barbarian ability. The number of
times a badger monk can rage increases every three levels after the 3rd
level. This ability replaces a normal monk's Fast Movement ability.

Burrow (Ex): At 7th level, a Badger monk gains the ability to travel
through soft earth, but not solid stone, by digging, receiving a burrow
speed of 5 ft. The badger monk's burrow speed increases to 10 ft. at 14th
level. A monk in armor or carrying a medium or heavy load loses this
ability. This replaces the normal monk's Slow Fall ability

Fast Healing (Su): At 7th Level, a badger monk gains Fast Healing. He is
able to heal 1 hit point of damage per 2 rounds so long as he has at least 1
hit point. This ability replaces a normal monk's Wholeness of Body ability.


--
==========
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"Presto" <donotuse@thisaddress.no> wrote in
news:xMube.372$3V3.316@edtnps89:

> After seeing "The Sidewinder Monk" in Dragon #331, I thought I'd
> give it a go at a variant monk, from the Order of the Badger.
>
> I picture this being an order composed mainly of races with
> close ties to the earth (dwarves, gnomes, etc.), and the mindset
> is based almost entirely on offense and testing your mettle
> directly in the face of your adversaries. I haaven't got any of
> the rulebooks with me; all the changes come from the SRD.
>
> I'd like people's opinions on this. Is it too powerful? Is it
> too close to being a barbarian? Is it BETTER than a barbarian
> to the point where this would replace barbarian in your game?
>
> Thanks a lot.
>
>
> Order of the Badger
>
> Level Special
> 1st Bonus Feat, Flurry of Blows, Unarmed Strike
> 2nd Bonus Feat, Light Fortification
> 3rd Scent, Rage 1/day
> 4th Damage reduction 1/-, Ki strike (magic)
> 5th Rage 2/day, Purity of body
> 6th Bonus Feat, Rage 2/day
> 7th Burrow 5 ft., Fast Healing 1/2
> 8th Damage reduction 2/-
> 9th Rage 3/day
> 10th Medium Fortification, Ki strike (lawful)
> 11th Diamond Body, Greater Flurry
> 12th Damage Reduction 3/-, Abundant Step
> 13th Rage 4/day, Diamond Soul
> 14th Burrow 10 ft.
> 15th Quivering Palm
> 16th Damage reduction 4/-, Heavy Fortification, Ki strike
> (adamantine) 17th Rage 5/day, Timeless Body, Tongue of the
> Sun and Moon 18th Heavy Fortification
> 19th Empty Body
> 20th Perfect Self, Damage Reduction 5/-

This looks dreadfully powerful.

> HP Bonus (Ex): When unarmored and encumbered, Badger monks add
> half their Strength Bonus (if any) per level to their hit point
> total. In addition, Badger monks receive the Toughness feat at
> 5th level, and again every 5 levels thereafter. This replaces
> the normal monk's AC Bonus.

*Boggle*. Consider a STR 18 monk with +5 Inherent Bonus, +5 from
level increases at 20th level, and a +6 Enhancement bonus (= STR
34). That's +12 HP per level i.e. +240 HP at 20th level. Consider
also that the monk will likely be wearing Bracers of Natural
Armour, Rings of Protection etc. Sorry, but this is way too
powerful.

> Fortification (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, a Badger monk is
> able to protect vital areas of his body more effectively. When a
> critical hit or sneak attack is scored on the badger monk, there
> is a 25 percent chance that the critical hit or sneak attack is
> negated and damage is instead rolled normally. At 10th level,
> that chance is increased to 75%, and at 18th, level, the chance
> is 100%, effectively making the badger monk immune to critical
> hits and sneak attacks. This ability replaces the normal monk's
> Evasion and Improved Evasion abilities.

This is far too good.

> Scent (Ex): At 3rd level, badger monks gain the scent ability.
> This replaces a normal monk's Still Mind ability.
>
> Rage (Ex): At 3rd level, an unarmored, unencumbered badger monk
> is able to focus his will into a rage similar to the barbarian
> ability. The number of times a badger monk can rage increases
> every three levels after the 3rd level. This ability replaces a
> normal monk's Fast Movement ability.

Umm... the whole point of the increased damage is the focussing of
the inner strength.

> Fast Healing (Su): At 7th Level, a badger monk gains Fast
> Healing. He is able to heal 1 hit point of damage per 2 rounds
> so long as he has at least 1 hit point. This ability replaces a
> normal monk's Wholeness of Body ability.

*Boggle* No need for healing potions then. This would be ok if
restricted to non-lethal damage.

Your bonus feats are also way too early.

 

[presto]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Quentin Stephens" <stq@stq.gro.ku.invalid> wrote in message
news:Xns9644C47C79C64stqstqstq@130.133.1.4...
> This looks dreadfully powerful.
>
> > HP Bonus (Ex): When unarmored and encumbered, Badger monks add
> > half their Strength Bonus (if any) per level to their hit point
> > total. In addition, Badger monks receive the Toughness feat at
> > 5th level, and again every 5 levels thereafter. This replaces
> > the normal monk's AC Bonus.
>
> *Boggle*. Consider a STR 18 monk with +5 Inherent Bonus, +5 from
> level increases at 20th level, and a +6 Enhancement bonus (= STR
> 34). That's +12 HP per level i.e. +240 HP at 20th level. Consider
> also that the monk will likely be wearing Bracers of Natural
> Armour, Rings of Protection etc. Sorry, but this is way too
> powerful.

No, this is why I posted it, to get others opinions on its balance. I took
out the Str bonus to hp and returned the wis bonus back to AC, but I still
left the AC Bonus for Toughness swap in.

> > Fortification (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, a Badger monk is
> > able to protect vital areas of his body more effectively. When a
> > critical hit or sneak attack is scored on the badger monk, there
> > is a 25 percent chance that the critical hit or sneak attack is
> > negated and damage is instead rolled normally. At 10th level,
> > that chance is increased to 75%, and at 18th, level, the chance
> > is 100%, effectively making the badger monk immune to critical
> > hits and sneak attacks. This ability replaces the normal monk's
> > Evasion and Improved Evasion abilities.
>
> This is far too good.

On second glance you may be right. I took out the Heavy Fortification, and
spread out the light and medium at 2nd and 14th. I also added Defensive
Roll to the equation.

> Umm... the whole point of the increased damage is the focussing of
> the inner strength.

I see your point. Fast movement reinstated.

> *Boggle* No need for healing potions then. This would be ok if
> restricted to non-lethal damage.

Again, point taken. Wholeness of Body Reinstated.

> Your bonus feats are also way too early.

This is where I think I'll draw my line. The only feat I thik that could be
argued to be too early is Whirlwind Attack, and when you look at it,
compared to Stunning Fist, which without the monk class you need to wait
until you're at least an 8th level fighter to take it, I don't think waiting
until 6th level for a feat that a properly feated 6th level fighter could
also achieve.

So what we're left with is this:

Level Special
1st Bonus Feat, Flurry of Blows, Unarmed Strike
2nd Bonus Feat, Light Fortification
3rd Scent
4th Damage reduction 1/-, Ki strike (magic)
5th Rage 2/day, Purity of body
6th Bonus Feat
7th Wholeness of Body
8th Damage reduction 2/-
9th Burrow 5 ft.
10th Defensive Roll, Ki strike (lawful)
11th Diamond Body, Greater Flurry
12th Damage Reduction 3/-, Abundant Step
13th Diamond Soul
14th Medium Fortification
15th Quivering Palm
16th Damage reduction 4/-, Ki strike (adamantine)
17th Timeless Body, Tongue of the Sun and Moon
18th Burrow 10 ft.
19th Empty Body
20th Perfect Self, Damage Reduction 5/-

Any better?

 

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"Presto" <donotuse@thisaddress.no> wrote in news:Uswbe.388$3V3.383
@edtnps89:

> Any better?

First off, thanks for taking my thoughts on board.

I really don't like the Rage ability or the resistance to critical
hits. Monks work off Ki, which is focussed strength; Rage is
unfocussed strength. The Fortification ability is also too
powerful - Evasion etc are counterable; Fortification is a flat
chance. Should a 2nd level character be able to shrug off a
critical from a 40th level character?

I also don't the class like getting Whirlwind Attack at 6th level.
To get that feat at that level a fighter has to near-dedicate his
feat tree whereas your monk doesn't. Therefore your monk should
gain it *much* later. 10th level would be the *very* earliest I'd
give it, and I think 12th would be more likely. Plus you should
justifyit by granting virtual Feats earlier. Remember that this is
attacks at full AB on all surrounding squares. I'll have to think
about this more.

 

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On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 17:21:33 GMT, "Presto" <donotuse@thisaddress.no>
scribed into the ether:

>After seeing "The Sidewinder Monk" in Dragon #331, I thought I'd give it a
>go at a variant monk, from the Order of the Badger.
>
>I picture this being an order composed mainly of races with close ties to
>the earth (dwarves, gnomes, etc.), and the mindset is based almost entirely
>on offense and testing your mettle directly in the face of your adversaries.
>I haaven't got any of the rulebooks with me; all the changes come from the
>SRD.
>
>I'd like people's opinions on this. Is it too powerful? Is it too close to
>being a barbarian? Is it BETTER than a barbarian to the point where this
>would replace barbarian in your game?
[snip]

Well, it looks like it is turning the mage-killer monk into a
melee-killer...quite a combat beast, and doesn't give up a whole lot
besides the magical protections.

Maybe also turn the will save weak instead of keeping all 3 strong, to
represent the barbarian influence and the lack of discipline?

 

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Quentin Stephens <stq@stq.gro.ku.invalid> wrote:
>The Fortification ability is also too
>powerful - Evasion etc are counterable; Fortification is a flat
>chance. Should a 2nd level character be able to shrug off a
>critical from a 40th level character?

Note that one of the Prestige Classes in Complete Warrior (I'm pretty
sure it's Warshaper) gets complete immunity to crits (and therefore
sneak attacks) at 2nd level whenever in other-than-normal form.

2nd level seems a little low for Lesser Fortification, but it's not
unreasonable by around 4th or 5th. There should still be some sort of
weakness, though (anyone remember Toad from "Five Deadly Venoms"?).


Donald

 

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tsang@soda.csua.berkeley.edu (Donald Tsang) wrote in
news:d4mb8s$1fsf$1@agate.berkeley.edu:

> Quentin Stephens <stq@stq.gro.ku.invalid> wrote:
>>The Fortification ability is also too
>>powerful - Evasion etc are counterable; Fortification is a flat
>>chance. Should a 2nd level character be able to shrug off a
>>critical from a 40th level character?
>
> Note that one of the Prestige Classes in Complete Warrior (I'm
> pretty sure it's Warshaper) gets complete immunity to crits (and
> therefore sneak attacks) at 2nd level whenever in
> other-than-normal form.

I must confess to being most unhappy at the linkage between critical
hits and sneak attacks.

 

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Quentin Stephens wrote:

> > HP Bonus (Ex): When unarmored and encumbered, Badger monks add
> > half their Strength Bonus (if any) per level to their hit point
> > total. In addition, Badger monks receive the Toughness feat at
> > 5th level, and again every 5 levels thereafter. This replaces
> > the normal monk's AC Bonus.
>
> *Boggle*. Consider a STR 18 monk with +5 Inherent Bonus, +5 from
> level increases at 20th level, and a +6 Enhancement bonus (= STR
> 34). That's +12 HP per level i.e. +240 HP at 20th level. Consider
> also that the monk will likely be wearing Bracers of Natural
> Armour, Rings of Protection etc. Sorry, but this is way too
> powerful.

I'm not sure that the best test for fairness is a monk so extrordinary
that they have an 18 strength nd put every attribute raise possible
into strength. Especially considering that under a point buy system (a
good way to test fairness, IMO) such a m onk would be crippled in other
areas. Also, aren't ability raises from level inherent? But I agree
that it's too much. I think the toughness feats are enough and the
strength is mucho overkill. It's also easier to balance (since all
this ability does is encourage a monk to unbalance their chacter in
favor of strength).

> > Fortification (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, a Badger monk is
> > able to protect vital areas of his body more effectively. When a
> > critical hit or sneak attack is scored on the badger monk, there
> > is a 25 percent chance that the critical hit or sneak attack is
> > negated and damage is instead rolled normally. At 10th level,
> > that chance is increased to 75%, and at 18th, level, the chance
> > is 100%, effectively making the badger monk immune to critical
> > hits and sneak attacks. This ability replaces the normal monk's
> > Evasion and Improved Evasion abilities.
>
> This is far too good.

Actually, I don't think that fortification is a bad trade for evasion
and improved evasion. This of all the high level damage that improved
evasion negates and compare it to critical hits. Though I wouldn't go
to 100%. I'd max out at 50 or 75 tops.

> > Rage (Ex): At 3rd level, an unarmored, unencumbered badger monk
> > is able to focus his will into a rage similar to the barbarian
> > ability. The number of times a badger monk can rage increases
> > every three levels after the 3rd level. This ability replaces a
> > normal monk's Fast Movement ability.
>
> Umm... the whole point of the increased damage is the focussing of
> the inner strength.

But rage certainly fits a badger style nicely. hehe . . . I said
badger style. Is that like hampster style?

> > Fast Healing (Su): At 7th Level, a badger monk gains Fast
> > Healing. He is able to heal 1 hit point of damage per 2 rounds
> > so long as he has at least 1 hit point. This ability replaces a
> > normal monk's Wholeness of Body ability.
>
> *Boggle* No need for healing potions then. This would be ok if
> restricted to non-lethal damage.

I dont' see why this is such a big deal. This is raelly only going to
make a difference regarding noncombat healing. And at higher levels
noncobat healing is way less of an issue because clerics have spells to
burn. I say let them have it. Anything that removes complication from
downtime makes me happy. And besides, using your example monk from
above, assuming average hit points and a ten con, this is still 64.8
minutes of healing to get all his hit points back (actually a touch
less than that since he has to have at least one hit point to
regenerate). So it takes the monk over an hour to heal up whereas it
takes the cleric one roung to fix him.

> Your bonus feats are also way too early.

I agree with this.

 

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Quentin Stephens wrote:

> I really don't like the Rage ability or the resistance to critical
> hits. Monks work off Ki, which is focussed strength; Rage is
> unfocussed strength.

I thought that was the whole point of the class. A badger style monk
that is a rage fighter. How can you implement that idea without rage?

>The Fortification ability is also too
> powerful - Evasion etc are counterable; Fortification is a flat
> chance. Should a 2nd level character be able to shrug off a
> critical from a 40th level character?

umm. . . at what level should they be able to do this? Your problem is
with fortifucation, not with the implementation.

> I also don't the class like getting Whirlwind Attack at 6th level.
> To get that feat at that level a fighter has to near-dedicate his
> feat tree whereas your monk doesn't. Therefore your monk should
> gain it *much* later. 10th level would be the *very* earliest I'd
> give it, and I think 12th would be more likely. Plus you should
> justifyit by granting virtual Feats earlier. Remember that this is
> attacks at full AB on all surrounding squares. I'll have to think
> about this more.

I agree. I think 12th level is a better level for whirlwind attack as a
bonus feat. it's not integral to teh class and they do still get it,
just later than a fighter who dedicates himself to it.

 

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Quentin Stephens wrote:

> > I thought that was the whole point of the class. A badger style
> > monk that is a rage fighter. How can you implement that idea
> > without rage?
>
> Then I suggest that if you want to keep the Rage, drop the damage.

Oh, i see your point now. I have no prblem with that. I think the
rage plus the added danage is not only a bit much but also
contrasictory. I must have missed the implecation, but you're right.
I think rage is more appropriate than increased damage (though I'm ok
with a base of d6 unarmed that never goes up).

> >>The Fortification ability is also too
> >> powerful - Evasion etc are counterable; Fortification is a flat
> >> chance. Should a 2nd level character be able to shrug off a
> >> critical from a 40th level character?
> >
> > umm. . . at what level should they be able to do this?
>
> I don't know.
>
> > Your
> > problem is with fortifucation, not with the implementation.
>
> I've not considered that, but now you suggest it, I do not like
> the implementation of Fortification.

Figured as much. Realistically, I don't like it either. I don't like
the feel of it. I can see magic that makes you outright innume (ie
means that you don't have organs or don't take organ damage or
something as ironbody does) but the incremental raise seems to imply
that it is selectively either moving your organs around or enhancing
some of them or that the magic is somehow randomly decreasing the
effectivness of a vital strike. (the ooc line between a really solid
hit and a critical hit and a sneak attack is so blurry to begin with
that it's hard to see).

> >> I also don't the class like getting Whirlwind Attack at 6th
> >> level. To get that feat at that level a fighter has to
> >> near-dedicate his feat tree whereas your monk doesn't.
> >> Therefore your monk should gain it *much* later. 10th level
> >> would be the *very* earliest I'd give it, and I think 12th
> >> would be more likely. Plus you should justifyit by granting
> >> virtual Feats earlier. Remember that this is attacks at full AB
> >> on all surrounding squares. I'll have to think about this more.
> >
> > I agree. I think 12th level is a better level for whirlwind
> > attack as a bonus feat. it's not integral to teh class and they
> > do still get it, just later than a fighter who dedicates himself
> > to it.
>
> Ah, one out of three ain't bad!

I didn't disagree with you on the other points, i was just clarrifying
(well, I did actually disagree with the firt one, but I was wrong).

 

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Quentin Stephens wrote:

> > Also, aren't ability raises from level inherent?
>
> No.

Huh. Odd. I always thought that level based ability raises and racial
modifiers were inherent. That's odd. What are they, then? Are they
typeless? That seems out of line with the system, doesn't it?
Everyhting else gets clssified.

> > I dont' see why this is such a big deal. This is raelly only
> > going to make a difference regarding noncombat healing. And at
> > higher levels noncobat healing is way less of an issue because
> > clerics have spells to burn. I say let them have it.
>
> It changes everything: suppose you don't have a cleric available
> or your cleric can't recover spells? This would be ok if it were
> restricted to non-lethal / subdual damage.

I can't speak fr all games, but I've played a chracter who had
regeneration. At one point it was nice out of combat and never usefl
in combat and made no real difference in play. At three points it only
made a difference in long fights (it never got higher than that). YMMV.

 

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stq@stq.gro.ku.invalid wrote:

> > Any better?
>
> First off, thanks for taking my thoughts on board.
>
> I really don't like the Rage ability or the resistance to critical
> hits. Monks work off Ki, which is focussed strength; Rage is
> unfocussed strength. The Fortification ability is also too
> powerful - Evasion etc are counterable; Fortification is a flat
> chance. Should a 2nd level character be able to shrug off a
> critical from a 40th level character?

For 4000 gp, anyone can get a 25% chance off shrugging of a critical.
Warforged in Eberron get 25% to begin with, 100% if they spend a feat.

I wouldn't say (light) fortification is so overpowered for a mid-level
class ability.


--
Jasin Zujovic
jzujovic@inet.hr

 

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Jasin Zujovic <jzujovic@inet.hr> wrote:
>For 4000 gp, anyone can get a 25% chance off shrugging of a critical.

Not necessarily one they can use effectively. If a Monk already has
Bracers of Armor, it's not so trivial.


>I wouldn't say (light) fortification is so overpowered for a mid-level
>class ability.

Me neither. I was wrong, btw: the Warshaper gets immunity to crits at 1st,
which means a 7th level character could have complete immunity about
50% of the time (two wild shapes per day at 6 hours each), without
needing to take the Extra Wild Shape feat. An 8th level character
goes up to 21 hours out of 24...

Donald

 

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"Anivair" <anivair@gmail.com> wrote in
news:1114627192.728277.275350@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:

>
> Quentin Stephens wrote:
>
>> I really don't like the Rage ability or the resistance to
>> critical hits. Monks work off Ki, which is focussed strength;
>> Rage is unfocussed strength.
>
> I thought that was the whole point of the class. A badger style
> monk that is a rage fighter. How can you implement that idea
> without rage?

Then I suggest that if you want to keep the Rage, drop the damage.

>>The Fortification ability is also too
>> powerful - Evasion etc are counterable; Fortification is a flat
>> chance. Should a 2nd level character be able to shrug off a
>> critical from a 40th level character?
>
> umm. . . at what level should they be able to do this?

I don't know.

> Your
> problem is with fortifucation, not with the implementation.

I've not considered that, but now you suggest it, I do not like
the implementation of Fortification.

>> I also don't the class like getting Whirlwind Attack at 6th
>> level. To get that feat at that level a fighter has to
>> near-dedicate his feat tree whereas your monk doesn't.
>> Therefore your monk should gain it *much* later. 10th level
>> would be the *very* earliest I'd give it, and I think 12th
>> would be more likely. Plus you should justifyit by granting
>> virtual Feats earlier. Remember that this is attacks at full AB
>> on all surrounding squares. I'll have to think about this more.
>
> I agree. I think 12th level is a better level for whirlwind
> attack as a bonus feat. it's not integral to teh class and they
> do still get it, just later than a fighter who dedicates himself
> to it.

Ah, one out of three ain't bad!

 

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"Anivair" <anivair@gmail.com> wrote in
news:1114627007.463823.63330@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

>
> Quentin Stephens wrote:
>
>> > HP Bonus (Ex): When unarmored and encumbered, Badger monks
>> > add half their Strength Bonus (if any) per level to their hit
>> > point total. In addition, Badger monks receive the Toughness
>> > feat at 5th level, and again every 5 levels thereafter. This
>> > replaces the normal monk's AC Bonus.
>>
>> *Boggle*. Consider a STR 18 monk with +5 Inherent Bonus, +5
>> from level increases at 20th level, and a +6 Enhancement bonus
>> (= STR 34). That's +12 HP per level i.e. +240 HP at 20th level.
>> Consider also that the monk will likely be wearing Bracers of
>> Natural Armour, Rings of Protection etc. Sorry, but this is way
>> too powerful.
>
> I'm not sure that the best test for fairness is a monk so
> extrordinary that they have an 18 strength nd put every
> attribute raise possible into strength.

I hardly got started on the bonuses.

> Also, aren't ability raises from level inherent?

No.

>> *Boggle* No need for healing potions then. This would be ok if
>> restricted to non-lethal damage.
>
> I dont' see why this is such a big deal. This is raelly only
> going to make a difference regarding noncombat healing. And at
> higher levels noncobat healing is way less of an issue because
> clerics have spells to burn. I say let them have it.

It changes everything: suppose you don't have a cleric available
or your cleric can't recover spells? This would be ok if it were
restricted to non-lethal / subdual damage.

 

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Anivair <anivair@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Also, aren't ability raises from level inherent?
>>
>> No.
>
>Huh. Odd. I always thought that level based ability raises and racial
>modifiers were inherent. That's odd. What are they, then?

An actual change in the ability score, rather than a bonus. A racial
bonus is... a "racial bonus".

Donald

 

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"Anivair" <anivair@gmail.com> wrote in
news:1114632851.564579.33010@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:

>
> Quentin Stephens wrote:
>
>> > Also, aren't ability raises from level inherent?
>>
>> No.
>
> Huh. Odd. I always thought that level based ability raises and
> racial modifiers were inherent. That's odd. What are they,
> then? Are they typeless? That seems out of line with the
> system, doesn't it? Everyhting else gets clssified.

Sorry - I thought you were talking about inherent bonuses - e.g. from
Manuals or Wishes.

 

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Quentin Stephens <stq@stq.gro.ku.invalid> wrote:
>"Anivair" <anivair@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > Also, aren't ability raises from level inherent?
>>>
>>> No.
>>
>> Huh. Odd. I always thought that level based ability raises and
>> racial modifiers were inherent. That's odd. What are they,
>> then? Are they typeless? That seems out of line with the
>> system, doesn't it? Everyhting else gets clssified.
>
>Sorry - I thought you were talking about inherent bonuses - e.g. from
>Manuals or Wishes.

He was. Or, at least, he had his terminology confused. Level-based
ability raises are actual changes in the ability scores, not bonuses.
Racial modifiers to ability scores (that are greater than zero) are
"racial bonuses".

Donald

 

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"Anivair" <anivair@gmail.com> wrote in
news:1114632681.796365.21050@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:

>> > Your
>> > problem is with fortifucation, not with the implementation.
>>
>> I've not considered that, but now you suggest it, I do not like
>> the implementation of Fortification.
>
> Figured as much. Realistically, I don't like it either. I
> don't like the feel of it.

I've only seen this as a property of armour, rather than a Feat,
and don't like the way it's implemented there, either.

If we are to have it as a Feat tree, how about something along the
lines of:

Light Fortification: Pre-reqs Toughness, any armour feat. You are
skilled at blocking blows with your armour. Your opponent's
critical threat range is reduced by 1, to a minimum of 20. Sneak
attack damage is reduced by 1d6 if you are aware of the attacker
and not Held etc (you can be aware but still denied your DEX
bonus).

Medium Fortification: Pre-req Light Fortification. Your opponent's
critical threat range is reduced by a further 1 (total 2), to a
minimum of 20. Sneak attack damage is reduced by a further 1d6.

Heavy Fortification: Pre-reqs Medium Fortification, Medium Armour.
As long as you are wearing a medium or heavy armour type, your
opponent's critical threat range is reduced by a further 1 (total
3), to a minimum of 20. Sneak attack damage is reduced by a
further 2d6.

But I'd really rather keep it as a property of armour.

OK, this needs a lot of work.

 

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Donald Tsang wrote:

> >Sorry - I thought you were talking about inherent bonuses - e.g.
from
> >Manuals or Wishes.
>
> He was. Or, at least, he had his terminology confused. Level-based
> ability raises are actual changes in the ability scores, not bonuses.
> Racial modifiers to ability scores (that are greater than zero) are
> "racial bonuses".

You're right, that is exactly what I ws saying. I et racial bonuses,
but I still don't like the idea that level based bonuses are just
changes and not a bonus of any sort. it seems contradictary (then why
is my wish spell not just a change? Why isn't the +2 I get from a
demigod not just a change?) Of course there are rules for those, but
this doesn't seem too much different.

I'd actually prefer it were an inherent bonus. i think it might help
balance some crazy numbers.

 

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Presto wrote:
> After seeing "The Sidewinder Monk" in Dragon #331, I thought I'd give it a
> go at a variant monk, from the Order of the Badger.

((snipped a good desc))

This sort of reminds me of the Dwarven BattleRagers from the latest RA Salvatore
trilogy.
--
"... respect, all good works are not done by only good folk ..."
--till next time, Jameson Stalanthas Yu -x- <<poetry.dolphins-cove.com>>