Question Motherboard & CPU Upgrade

[Karadjgne]

Exactly. With op's budget, I don't see a 3080 or better or a 40 series at all since they also realistically require a ATX 3.0 standard psu, and closer to 1000w+, so a 3060/ti or maybe a 3070 would be a decent upgrade from the 1070. Monitors don't last forever, and a 1440p/144Hz isn't budget breaking and will give good performance on a 3060-3070, so no real need for uber fps. A 12700 is stronger than the 12600k, and overall cheaper, and has better single/multi-thread performance, so stands a better chance of being relevant for longer. Even on a DDR4 mobo. As evidenced by op's current DDR3 system.

The only problem is the budget. $500 doesn't get much, not when you have to buy cpu, mobo, cooler, and ram. That's a 12100/12400 kinda territory, which is pretty good, for now, but will not be relevant for nearly as long. The 12400 would be better, but not by much. For a pc that'll last the next 5-6yrs+ is looking like closer to $600.

Op is coming from a 3770k, which has been one of intels best ever cpus, after 8 years is only now getting long in the tooth. A $500 'upgrade' will be getting a i3-3220 class cpu instead of the 3770k class, and I'm not a fan of spending so much for so little, when only a little more gets a whole lot more.

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i7-12700 2.1 GHz 12-Core Processor ($342.98 @ B&H)
CPU Cooler: Scythe Fuma 2 Rev.B 39.44 CFM CPU Cooler ($65.98 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Gigabyte B660 GAMING X AX DDR4 ATX LGA1700 Motherboard ($139.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 CL16 Memory ($67.99 @ Corsair)
Total: $616.94
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2022-09-28 01:19 EDT-0400

 

[domjam]

DDR5 is expensive. Not only the ram itself, but also the mobo. As far as upgrade path, that's negligible, AM4 is still a viable platform, as is Intel DDR4, and a DDR5 platform will be 13th gen upgradable, next year, which is basically pointless unless you have an abundance of cash to spend on small improvements, twice. A meaningful upgrade would be a 12100 to a 13700 or K version if you opted for a $300+ Z690. Otherwise there's not all that much difference between a 12700 and the upcoming 13700. Even a 20% uplift means absolutly nothing but a few extra fps that are already well beyond op's monitor and gpu, even if Op upgraded both.
[/QUOTE]

What I want to know is if the speed makes a big difference in real time fps in games on zen4 because you can get 2x8 of ddr5 4800 RGB for under £100 that along with the cheaper Motherboards that are coming out very soon along with raptor lake makes it a much cheaper option then going for zen 4 right now, and still gives you the ability to upgrade further down the line when compered with raptor lake. thats the only thing im a bit :S about. having to upgrade to a completely new platform but with no upgrade path.

 

[DavidM012]

Crystal ball territory. Support 'til at least 2025 with socket am5, depends if Amd releases a cpu with lower power consumption.

'Cheaper boards' have a tendency to not last very long or suffer from performance restrictions because they skimped on the vrms, more on the amd side than the intel side.

If you bought a cheap mobo which has only 2 dimm slots and 1 pci-e gpu slot on lga1700. It has been done: 'Garbage board'. It exists they're gonna sell it and someone's gonna buy it and learn, 'what?'.

Cheap or bargain is a false economy since you'd have to buy another board to fix what was allegedly wrong with the cheap one. If you put a powerful cpu in it. Lo end board + mid range cpu =fail. It isn't viable.

Far as upgrade path goes amd is simply releasing it's last batch later than intel. Whether they're going to make any major tweaks in that time to zen 4/am5? Suppose it takes about 3 months to fabricate a chip and then probably another 3 months to stock up and maybe another 6 months to market.

Maybe it takes them a year to ready a new cpu from the design phase they could maybe release 1 new series of am5 chip in two years which probably won't represent any major breakthroughs, it's not a real world difference.

Since they will be feeding back from experiences of zen 4 if they want to make any changes in that time.

I've seen one or two customers drop a 5800x cpu into their b450 board and it was like an aerial bombardment. The customer didn't really understand they had purchased a poorly reviewed 'cheap' board and the stronger cpu destroyed it. You have to read the review before you buy anything.

So, the question is also whether the 'upgrade path' is even viable since the cheap boards mess about too much with the power delivery system.

Besides, $600 for a mid level system for 5 years of use isn't quite accurate. Cpu mobo, ram and cooler is $600. You're still going to need a power supply and n.v.m.e drive and monitor. It's closer to a grand to break in to the modern market for anything that has a chance of lasting more. And that's without any additional peripherals such as printer, mice, keyboards, sound cards.

Then you're going to want some kind of backup device or more storage, a bunch of usb drives, speakers, headphones, mics, cameras.

And the 3000 series gpu later on is... another grand. So it's more like 2grand. That's 4x the op's budget.

The intel lineup of new ARC gpu suffers from restrictions on dx11 - low frame rates on older games. An upgrade but a downgrade. They're working on backwards compatibility with direct x 11 - manyana. It isn't progress it's deprecation. Not much is likely have XeSS patches. They did shadow of the tomb raider - my favorite is actually original crystal dynamics tomb raider (2013) which they ignored.

Reflected in the price? So it competes on direct x 12... are folks buying cheap gpus going to buy a large library of new direct x 12 games? Smells like bs.

One presumes that ddr5 is perhaps a shot at getting 165hz on mid range desktop systems but if ppl already have a 144hz monitor or even a sub 1440p monitor that could last anywhere between 1-5 years or perhaps more... you can't know. I've had monitors last only a couple of years and one that has lasted so long (over 5 years) it's sub-hd and obsolete but still going which I find amusing enough to keep.

Once upon a time I had some large 17" crts and they all ended up dumped before they broke. Others had 21 or 24inch crts but that was before hd was even a thing.

If you want ddr 5 on intel lga 1700 then you need the z690 or z790 boards and overclock. Overclocking pushes your hardware - will it last as long as you want? Anyone's guess. Nobody has enough experience with the platform to say definitively.

Motherboards that are coming out very soon along with raptor lake makes it a much cheaper option then going for zen 4 right now, and still gives you the ability to upgrade further down the line when compered with raptor lake.

doin' ma head. What do you want? 165hz or more at 4k? Well more quality is more expensive. Forget cheap anyway. Basically you're locked in to the platform you buy on the day. If you want upgrades, spend silly amounts of money for 'eye candy'.

 

[Lafong]

If you want ddr 5 on intel lga 1700 then you need the z690 or z790 boards

Can you expand on that?

 

[DavidM012]

because it's for overclocking

 

[Lafong]

because it's for overclocking

DDR 5 is for overclocking?

 

[Karadjgne]

If you bought a cheap mobo which has only 2 dimm slots and 1 pci-e gpu slot on lga1700. It has been done: 'Garbage board'. It exists they're gonna sell it and someone's gonna buy it and learn, 'what?'.

It's proven multiple times that DDR5 does not exactly like 4 dimms, in fact anything over 2 DIMM slots is a waste of space. There's almost zero point in having more that 1 pcie x16 slot unless you are in fact using it for an add on card like extra m.2 pcie card etc. My board has 2x dimms, 1x pcie and no requirements for more.

If you want ddr 5 on intel lga 1700 then you need the z690 or z790 boards and overclock. Overclocking pushes your hardware - will it last as long as you want? Anyone's guess. Nobody has enough experience with the platform to say definitively.

No, you do not. At all. The Only cpu that gets tangible benefits to OC is the 12600k. Otherwise the higher class cpus don't gain enough for the piwer consumption. It's damn near impossible to get anything more from a 12900KS. Best just to leave it as is, stock. Most ppl have zero use for all the bells and whistles offered by the Z boards nowadays.

With what you'll need to spend extra on oversized cooling for the OC, a 12700/B660 is a far better value and cheaper overall than a 12600k/Z690, and walks all over it unless you get a good OC on the 12600k. There's really not much point to spending out on time and money, just to get the same results.

 

[DavidM012]

DDR 5 is for overclocking?

Yes. They are starting at 4800mhz and overclocking with the 13th gen on z790. 12th gen intel can also do ddr 5 but you need a mobo that supports it. b660 has ddr5 support but doesn't overclock cpu. It supports 'memory adjustment' but don't know about the results you'd get. On cheap boards.

Whatever floats your boat. When you buy a system you aren't buying much upgradability anyway. You're stuck with what you buy on the day for the duration.

And anyway you aren't buying anything cheap - skimping on the board might save a few bucks, it will have less features and maybe also poor vrms - the rest of the system and peripherals and gpu will bring the total closer to 2k anyway.

Well you can buy all the budget stuff you like and experiment for science if you want.

 

[Domg13]

Exactly. With op's budget, I don't see a 3080 or better or a 40 series at all since they also realistically require a ATX 3.0 standard psu, and closer to 1000w+, so a 3060/ti or maybe a 3070 would be a decent upgrade from the 1070. Monitors don't last forever, and a 1440p/144Hz isn't budget breaking and will give good performance on a 3060-3070, so no real need for uber fps. A 12700 is stronger than the 12600k, and overall cheaper, and has better single/multi-thread performance, so stands a better chance of being relevant for longer. Even on a DDR4 mobo. As evidenced by op's current DDR3 system.

The only problem is the budget. $500 doesn't get much, not when you have to buy cpu, mobo, cooler, and ram. That's a 12100/12400 kinda territory, which is pretty good, for now, but will not be relevant for nearly as long. The 12400 would be better, but not by much. For a pc that'll last the next 5-6yrs+ is looking like closer to $600.

Op is coming from a 3770k, which has been one of intels best ever cpus, after 8 years is only now getting long in the tooth. A $500 'upgrade' will be getting a i3-3220 class cpu instead of the 3770k class, and I'm not a fan of spending so much for so little, when only a little more gets a whole lot more.

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i7-12700 2.1 GHz 12-Core Processor ($342.98 @ B&H)
CPU Cooler: Scythe Fuma 2 Rev.B 39.44 CFM CPU Cooler ($65.98 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Gigabyte B660 GAMING X AX DDR4 ATX LGA1700 Motherboard ($139.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 CL16 Memory ($67.99 @ Corsair)
Total: $616.94
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2022-09-28 01:19 EDT-0400

Such a late reply, I forgot all about the thread, I'm in SW Florida and after Hurricane Ian life has been nuts but settling! This really helps. I actually already have a Thermaltake View 71TG tower with a Floe Riing RBG 360 Premium Edition that should work on a newer CPU yea? I feel silly for asking some of these questions I haven't had to change out parts on my PC in such a long time lol.

 

[Karadjgne]

Case and cooler with work with anything, as long as you have the brackets.

Yes. They are starting at 4800mhz and overclocking with the 13th gen on z790. 12th gen intel can also do ddr 5 but you need a mobo that supports it. b660 has ddr5 support but doesn't overclock cpu. It supports 'memory adjustment' but don't know about the results you'd get. On cheap boards.

Give me one good reason why you'd ever bother to overclock a 12700/900 K or KS or a 13700/900K. There's Zero point to OC at those levels, you'd be seriously lucky to be able to gain an extra 100MHz and stay stable and inside your cpu coolers limits. There's no reason at all to lock all the cores at max turbo or above, no gains since the cpu has more cores than you can use except for a few circumstances, but not in gaming. At 300w, you literally cannot OC a 13900k unless you are using a full custom loop or LN2 or Peltier.

None of which has anything at all to do with whether the pc is DDR4 or DDR5. You can OC a 13th gen cpu on a Z690 just as easily as on a Z790, they are essentially the same motherboard. 'Memory Adjustment' simply means the motherboard supports memory OC by the user, XMP is memory OC set by the ram.

 

[DavidM012]

They are overclocking ddr 5 memory. And a 12600 maybe. I don't think I said anything specific about overclocking a 12700 or insisting on it.

Never mind that it's not clear what gains ddr 5 have over ddr 4 it's too new since they might be going to ddr 5 8000 or something later on but still getting conflicting info about whether ddr 5 affects gaming performance or not.

Well you have a choice between the tail end of the ddr 4 market or jumping on the emerging ddr 5 market. Some people are saying ddr 5 is too expensive at the moment.

Others complain that the Zen 4 cpu integrated heat spreader is too thick (3.6mm) and lapping it down by .8mm for a 10c thermal improvement voids your warranty.

I couldn't find a good reason to buy a b660 board particularly or a good reason to buy a Zen 4 if they made a competitive product and then nerfed it with a too thick of an IHS - don't know why.

Some say wait for the Zen 4 3d - anyway generally speaking $500 won't buy into today's market if all you have is a case and an AIO cooler of unknown age.

 

[Karadjgne]

The IHS is deliberately thicker to maintain the Z axis (height of the cpu in relation to the motherboard) so that existing coolers will bolt up. Without that, there isn't a cooler manufactured currently that will fit. A little bit higher temp is an easy sacrifice to make in order to actually sell the cpu. It also means there is room for a thinner IHS later if it was necessary to add another layer to add more cache etc.

Ppl complain because the temps shown are not to their liking, has nothing to do with the functionality of the cpu. But after a couple of decades worth of Intel 70° or under being beat into their heads, 90° is anethema.