Question Motherboard For Ryzen 3xxx

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DefinitelyNotTom

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FYI, there can be quality differences when using hardware encoders instead of software encoders. So it isn't a 100% apples to apples comparison with regard to HW vs SW encode times.
I know. I think I mentioned that somewhere in one of my posts that I was concerned about that, as well. I probably should have stuck with my original plan of a gtx 1050 instead of 1070 ti and noit use gpu acceleration. Now my 1070 ti will be a waste except I got a good deal on odyssey+ headset so may OCCASIONALLY play a VR game.

Now I'm beginning to think you should take your use-case to a new thread and get advice from people who have very specific backgrounds in the applications you use and what you want to do. You may be much better off looking for a specific hardware combination, e.g., CPU, memory, GPU and NVME combination, to provide optimum performance. It may be more suitable than looking at a general purpose computer that tries to shine in all areas but never gets best at the one thing you really need it to be best at.
I'm not using specific programs yet, so I can choose programs around what the pc is best at, as long as the programs have featrues I need. What's weird, though, is I saw that Resolve is more gpu-based, but yet something else showed how good it does with the 3900x.

I already have the RAM, 2 nvme ssds, etc... There's no point asking anyone about any of those parts as there is now ay I am selling off what I already have at this point. I ened to build and be done.

The 3900x shipped and I am receivbing it Saturday, so now I have to either keep it or sell on ebay, as I am not returning it and paying return shipping and restocking at b&h. really SUCKS that I am going to end up being out almost DOUBLE of my original budget, but nothing I can do now. $1800 vs $1650 doesn't change much in the long run. Either figure was nuts for me to go to. And ps this was with a TON of deals, too where I was getting $50 off $50 and $75 off $75 deals on many of those parts! The actual value of the parts is around $2500, I think.

AMD makes this pretty easy. First, when you install the gpu and boot up you get a primitive level of functionality. Not what you want on a permanent basis but enough to get you started. The mobo cpu and chip and OS people are all hip to the fact that you need to install the operating system, get that running, and then worry about your drivers. This is all in the video to which I provided a link. When you get to the AMD web site you will be offered several download options the best for a noob like me is autodetect where they just say OK we'll see what you got and tell you what to download. This is all true of Intel builds too btw.

If you have a total panic attack they are still providing DVDs. But your most updated drivers will be from the manufacturer.

They will try to get you to sign up for some kind of system that links your phone and mobo etc. which sounds like a nightmare to me so take a pass on that IMO.
Be advised that during the install process things seem to "hang up" but what is happening is that you are being asked to authorize the download and the window for that is underneath other stuff you may have open.

My build with the 2600x benchmarked at 78% which is the best I've ever done (UserBenchmark). The best I had before was "Yacht" now I've got a "battleship."

The thing is most of the benefit is not in the CPU but in the graphics card. Anyhow for reference the basic build is

Asus Prime x470 pro with Ryzen 5 2600X cpu
Samsung NVMe SSD 500 gigs installed on the mobo, where it runs Win 10
G. Skill DDR4 3200 RAM -- I currently have 32 gigs, but I benchmarked it with 16 gigs as well. So with 16 gigs I'm at 74% and a "battleship" whereas 32 gigs notches me up only 4% and I'm still a "battleship." (The weapons get meaner and nastier as you rise higher)
Seasonic PSU 850 Watt which is totally overkill get the next lower

That's a very basic setup which is in the $700 to $800 category until you start getting fancy with fans and extra drives and what not. Maybe an extra $200 for that. I'm also kind of assuming you're re-using whatever case you have on hand.

If I were going to push my build a bit further I would have gotten the 8 gig version of the gpu for another 80 bucks. This is more important than focusing on the cpu in my opinion.

Greg N
Thanks. I better start watching vids and reading articles soon, as well, to be sure I am not going to be confused on something. Although, I don't "have" to finish the build the first day... If I have a problem I can keep using my old pc and troubleshoot over time, I guess.

I already have basically every part except I don't like my choice on case (p400 with window) so am having to be out an extra $100 to get a new case and nobody has cared to buy my case.... which is sealed, too. Maybe I'll list it on this site, but shipping is huge on pc cases.

So pretty much my only decision left is mobo…. which I already HAVE one, but msi is worrying me.

Btw, everyone, I hope you all saw that people reviewing mobos have confirmed the little chipset fan is indeed a nightmare. Someone with an aorus master mobo said he was a returning it as soon as another is in stock because it's measuring over 50db. Not sure why he thinks another rmobo will be any better, but anyway, bottom line is any mention I've seen about those fans has seems to show that it was as bad as feared. So I am about to the point of not considering x570. I hate that I must gimp my second ssd to 2.0x4 instead of 3.0x4, but oh well.

I see the going rate on ebay for the 3900x is $650. So if I did want to resell it I'd get right around $50 profit is all, but at least I wouldn't be losing money... so I still have the option of doing that if I want the 3700x, unless supply picks up and lwoers the ebay going rate.
 
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spacejunk

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I can relate to the concern about those tiny, whiny fans. I was happily drooling over which 570 board to get, watching video reviews, And then my heart sank when I saw those little abominations tucked away under the shielding.

I get the impression that these manufacturer's care more about pushing low-level overclocking limits a few points than making something practical and user-friendly. Still surprising that they would choose to incorporate such a fundamentally flawed and poorly conceived design. It really irritates me when good platforms are ruined by stupid gimmicks and a total disregard for basic principles of hardware functionality. It really is an incomprehensibly moronic design choice.

This is such a kill-joy for me personally as I was so excited to make the jump to AMD. Guess that won't be happening now.
 

gn842a

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I know. I think I mentioned that somewhere in one of my posts that I was concerned about that, as well. I probably should have stuck with my original plan of a gtx 1050 instead of 1070 ti and noit use gpu acceleration. Now my 1070 ti will be a waste except I got a good deal on odyssey+ headset so may OCCASIONALLY play a VR game.
I think you need to figure a week to do your first build. It's not just about snapping in the components. If it were, it would take only a couple of hours like in the videos.

Delays....

....slow shipping on critical component
....the Samsung SSD Evo 860 that "never fails" doesn't even show in the directory. You waist an hour or two trying things out because you think it's your fault.
....trip to Best Buy because you don't want to wait for the return and reshipping of the defective part
....cable management is a little harder than you imagined, time consuming
....You have two sticks of RAM and install on A1/B1 instead of A2/B2 and you wonder why your computer is making weird noises and beeping at you after post that it has no RAM but in fact it does, then it boots anyhow and the RAM is showing it is installed (but issues won't go away till you put it back in A2/B2)
...chasing small screws you dropped on the floor
...You encounter errors on OS installation because of the 1903 update issue
...the computer dupes you into signing up for "Onecloud" and then changes your log in name, lifts your admin rights, and puts the original admin account where you can't get at it
...watching videos on applying thermal paste and getting drowned in controversies

I could go on but it takes a better man than me to get a computer up and runniing in one day. I'm sure that if I did more than once every four or five years I would get to know the pitfalls and it would go faster.

Anyhow the main thing is not to be in a hurry. While it is true that many Americans can and have snapped the pieces of a PC together, the fact is that it can get to be hairy at times. Microsoft does not know how its own product works, and neither does anyone else. That's a big issue right there.

Greg N
 

DefinitelyNotTom

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I can relate to the concern about those tiny, whiny fans. I was happily drooling over which 570 board to get, watching video reviews, And then my heart sank when I saw those little abominations tucked away under the shielding.

I get the impression that these manufacturer's care more about pushing low-level overclocking limits a few points than making something practical and user-friendly. Still surprising that they would choose to incorporate such a fundamentally flawed and poorly conceived design. It really irritates me when good platforms are ruined by stupid gimmicks and a total disregard for basic principles of hardware functionality. It really is an incomprehensibly moronic design choice.

This is such a kill-joy for me personally as I was so excited to make the jump to AMD. Guess that won't be happening now.
They want to cut corners, really, too, as they could have gone down other avenues instead of the fans, but apparently only 1 mobo lacks a fan and it's overboard expensive. You could do like me and get an older mobo, though. AMD claimed the performance will be the same.

I think you need to figure a week to do your first build. It's not just about snapping in the components. If it were, it would take only a couple of hours like in the videos.

Delays....

....slow shipping on critical component
....the Samsung SSD Evo 860 that "never fails" doesn't even show in the directory. You waist an hour or two trying things out because you think it's your fault.
....trip to Best Buy because you don't want to wait for the return and reshipping of the defective part
....cable management is a little harder than you imagined, time consuming
....You have two sticks of RAM and install on A1/B1 instead of A2/B2 and you wonder why your computer is making weird noises and beeping at you after post that it has no RAM but in fact it does, then it boots anyhow and the RAM is showing it is installed (but issues won't go away till you put it back in A2/B2)
...chasing small screws you dropped on the floor
...You encounter errors on OS installation because of the 1903 update issue
...the computer dupes you into signing up for "Onecloud" and then changes your log in name, lifts your admin rights, and puts the original admin account where you can't get at it
...watching videos on applying thermal paste and getting drowned in controversies

I could go on but it takes a better man than me to get a computer up and runniing in one day. I'm sure that if I did more than once every four or five years I would get to know the pitfalls and it would go faster.

Anyhow the main thing is not to be in a hurry. While it is true that many Americans can and have snapped the pieces of a PC together, the fact is that it can get to be hairy at times. Microsoft does not know how its own product works, and neither does anyone else. That's a big issue right there.

Greg N
Microsoft's hiccups are why I even started finally trying to speed this up. Windows gives me so many issues. Now I am going to be really annoyed when the new build has windows issues, too.

Another thing that will suck is if any of my parts "are" faulty, since almost none of them will be able to be returned, would have to go through warranty claims.
 

spacejunk

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They want to cut corners, really, too, as they could have gone down other avenues instead of the fans, but apparently only 1 mobo lacks a fan and it's overboard expensive. You could do like me and get an older mobo, though. AMD claimed the performance will be the same.


Microsoft's hiccups are why I even started finally trying to speed this up. Windows gives me so many issues. Now I am going to be really annoyed when the new build has windows issues, too.

Another thing that will suck is if any of my parts "are" faulty, since almost none of them will be able to be returned, would have to go through warranty claims.
According to recent benchmarks, there are some rather impressive gains over 470x with the 570. If that wasn't the case I would probably go for a 470 too.

What is especially annoying about this issue, is that they could have simply used a robust passive heat-sink instead and got nearly identical results. Those tiny fans are next to useless for anyone with half-decent air-flow in their case.

I had thoughts of buying a 570 and removing the fan blades off of the rotor, but that would probably cause bearing issues along with voiding my warranty. It's depressing.


Another potentially concerning aspect of those 570 boards is that they consume more than twice as much power as it's predecessor, both at idle and load.
 
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DefinitelyNotTom

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According to recent benchmarks, there are some rather impressive gains over 470x with the 570. If that wasn't the case I would probably go for a 470 too.

What is especially annoying about this issue, is that they could have simply used a robust passive heat-sink instead and got nearly identical results. Those tiny fans are next to useless for anyone with half-decent air-flow in their case.

I had thoughts of buying a 570 and removing the fan blades off of the rotor, but that would probably cause bearing issues along with voiding my warranty. It's depressing.


Another potentially concerning aspect of those 570 boards is that they consume more than twice as much power as it's predecessor, both at idle and load.
If you found anyone saying that, it's an outlier.

AMD said no difference and the following test of an x470 says no difference: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-3900x-3700x-tested-on-x470/6.html

And everything else I've seen said either no difference or no real world noticeable difference. Down the line, with a pcie 4 device maybe there'd be a difference, but even there, currently, you'd likely not notice it, due to not much optimized for it (and ssds are already fast with pcie 2, let alone 3 or 4).

Now the one difference that ahs WIDELY been reported is the x570 uses as mucy as double the power as the x470. But apparently for no gain.

Also, even if some tests have shown improvement with the x570, I bet it's something due to issues that will be fixed with x470 BIOS.
 

DefinitelyNotTom

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Also here are two comparisons via overclock3d which show little to no difference (in fact I think they are even using the pcie 4 gpu...)

https://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cpu_mainboard/amd_ryzen_7_3700x_ryzen_9_3900x_x470_vs_x570_review/10

https://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cpu_mainboard/amd_ryzen_7_3700x_ryzen_9_3900x_x470_vs_x570_review/11

The only real issue I see is someone saying RAM still ahs some sisues on a 4xxx, but again that would be BIOS related, I'd assume. All I can say if it ends up that the 4xxx ones DO have issues, I am going to be beyond mad, after al the amd fanboys kept bragging about how a reason to get amd is they would keep letting you pop your new cpu into the same mobo up until 2020. It doesn't "count" as being true if it doesn't work properly, obviously.
 
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TJ Hooker

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I don't know if I'm reading the benchmarks wrong, but in the following benching video the 570 is showing nice gains all across the board (excuse the pun). Bench results start at 17:25

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6ytKqN8j8A
Based on some of the CPU benchmark results I think it's pretty clear that they aren't running Ryzen 3K CPUs on the B450/X470 boards. Based on the Cinebench results they're running a 3900X on the X570 boards while running a 2700X on the 400 series boards. But they don't seem to state their test configurations anywhere, which is all too common with youtube reviews and is one of the reasons I avoid them if possible.
 
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spacejunk

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Based on some of the CPU benchmark results I think it's pretty clear that they aren't running Ryzen 3K CPUs on the B450/X470 boards. But we can't know for sure which CPUs they're using as they don't seem to state their test configurations anywhere, which is all too common with youtube reviews which is one of the reasons I avoid them if possible. If I had to guess I'd say they're running a 3700X or even 3900X on the X570 boards for those results while running a 2700X on the 400 series boards.

True. Though one would naturally assume that they could be dead accurate, as all that power must be going somewhere. If not, why do they suck all that extra juice ? Seems silly that they would consume so much energy and offer no performance gains.

I'm going to try and contact that reviewer to learn if they were all the same test-bed.
 

TJ Hooker

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Well they include results for X299, X399, and Z390 boards in addtion to the AM4 boards so they obviously have at least several different test platforms going on.

Again, I don't think the fact that the Cinebench results line up so nicely with the results for a 3900X and a 2700X is a coincidence. https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ryzen-9-3900x-7-3700x-review,6214-12.html

Though one would naturally assume that they could be dead accurate, as all that power must be going somewhere. If not, why do they suck all that extra juice ? Seems silly that they would consume so much energy and offer no performance gains.
Are you referring to the power results presented in that video? Because the increased power for the X570 setups would be from running a 12 core CPU rather than an 8 core, plus a power hungry chipset.
 
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spacejunk

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Well they include results for X299, X399, and Z390 boards in addtion to the AM4 boards so they obviously have at least several different test platforms going on.

Again, I don't think the fact that the Cinebench results line up so nicely with the results for a 3900X and a 2700X is a coincidence. https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ryzen-9-3900x-7-3700x-review,6214-12.html


Are you referring to the power results presented in that video? Because the increased power for the X570 setups would be from running a 12 core CPU rather than an 8 core, plus a power hungry chipset.

Ahh, I see where the disparity is now. I was only paying strict attention to both 470 and 570 for my own comparison and justification. So why would he even post bench results in that format. I find that confusing and pretty much useless if they are all different setups.

I also wonder by how much does the new chipset account for the extra power draw. The TDP disparity is only 40 watts between 8/12 cores assuming he is runnign the 3700x and 3900x. Could the chipset really be that greedy/wasteful ?
 
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DMAN999

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But they don't seem to state their test configurations anywhere, which is all too common with youtube reviews which is one of the reasons I avoid them if possible.
That is exactly why I ONLY rely on benchmarks from Respected Tech web sites.
Those YouTube reviewers mostly seem to be geared more towards getting flashy results than accurate comparisons/results.
 
Yep, I agree, that video presented that data in a pretty dumb way.

For an actual comparison of the same CPU on X470 vs X570, there are articles like this: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-3900x-3700x-tested-on-x470/4.html
If you really want to explore what's going on with X570 board power consumption check out Der8auer's vid. He's doing a pretty good job of isolating power draw of the chipset itself and shows how he does it:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qk3PD-4zPN0&t=929s


Really weird power consumption... like why does chipset draw essentially same power with PCIe gen 3 NVME's as gen 4? But the bottom line is you should never look at whole-system tests to draw conclusions about CPU power draw (except maybe deltas). Instead use ONLY power measurements at the XPS connector. X570 is a power hog, no doubt.

But even so reviewers of X570 motherboards have indicated the fan noise is lost in the system noise and essentially a non-issue. I suppose there could be one or two super cheap exceptions but it's quite obviously not a broader issue.
 
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DefinitelyNotTom

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Speaking of the x470 vs x570 video... how are some x570 ones doing better than others to begin with? I thought they're usually all about the same at stock cpu usage, so were they rating them based off of OC ability? (I didn't watch much of it, but also I have a vision issue and can't even remotely read that tiny print on their charts on the yt vid :) ).

Well, I realize now I should have just got the 3700x, but it may be more trouble than it's worth to sell it and get 3700x. Also I have a $100 off coupon for various tech, but can't decide what to sue it on *the place doesn't have cpus though... would have to get maybe an external ssd or some software or something. I wish they had mobos there).
 

DefinitelyNotTom

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But even so reviewers of X570 motherboards have indicated the fan noise is lost in the system noise and essentially a non-issue. I suppose there could be one or two super cheap exceptions but it's quite obviously not a broader issue.
That is another example of where you ened to know their whole builds. For instance I am going to use no hdds, but I bet the people were using them when they said the fan noise blends in. And as I mentioned one person said he measured the noise from his x570 and that it was mostly fan noise and was over 50db (on the inside).
 
.... I mentioned one person said he measured the noise from his x570 and that it was mostly fan noise and was over 50db (on the inside).
And that could be another example of an idiot with a DB meter. Do you have a link to the web page/review?

I'd need to know what his meter and measurement setup is. He could just as easily have been measuring the coil whine of the video card his meter's microphone was positioned much more closely to, for instance. And don't make me laugh if he was using a smart phone db meter app. Under what operating conditions was the measurement made? It could be be he turned the fan up max just to see how loud it COULD get. Just cause it could get that loud doesn't mean it ever will in normal operation. For instance: my laptop's fan screams but only when it burns a BIOS update, for obvious reasons.
 

DefinitelyNotTom

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And that could be another example of an idiot with a DB meter. Do you have a link to the web page/review?

I'd need to know what his meter and measurement setup is. He could just as easily have been measuring the coil whine of the video card his meter's microphone was positioned much more closely to, for instance. And don't make me laugh if he was using a smart phone db meter app. Under what operating conditions was the measurement made? It could be be he turned the fan up max just to see how loud it COULD get. Just cause it could get that loud doesn't mean it ever will in normal operation. For instance: my laptop's fan screams but only when it burns a BIOS update, for obvious reasons.
Like I said, he said it was almost all the fan noise. You're seeming mighty pro-amd to be implying the fan noise will be negligible, when people have sued those types of fans a ton in the past and said how bad they are.
 

DefinitelyNotTom

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I just don't trust random outliers. This seems to be one.
do you have links to any reviews of specific x570 mobos saying it's not noticeable? As I mentioned, if you don't se HDDs that could be a difference too. I really doubt I'll consider a x570 anyway, since they're expensive and using double the power and me not having any pcie 4 components. But still like to know all facts before I decide on things.
 

spacejunk

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Yep, I agree, that video presented that data in a pretty dumb way.

For an actual comparison of the same CPU on X470 vs X570, there are articles like this: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-3900x-3700x-tested-on-x470/4.html

Thanks for the link. Let me see if I've got this right.

X470:
No performance hit
No annoying chipset fans
Energy savings
Cheaper to build

X570:
PCIE 4.0 support
2020 CPU release support


For someone who doesn't even run NVME's and who won't be upgrading from the 3700x on this platform ever anyway, the 470 is looking very good indeed.
 
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spacejunk

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And that could be another example of an idiot with a DB meter. Do you have a link to the web page/review?

I'd need to know what his meter and measurement setup is. He could just as easily have been measuring the coil whine of the video card his meter's microphone was positioned much more closely to, for instance. And don't make me laugh if he was using a smart phone db meter app. Under what operating conditions was the measurement made? It could be be he turned the fan up max just to see how loud it COULD get. Just cause it could get that loud doesn't mean it ever will in normal operation. For instance: my laptop's fan screams but only when it burns a BIOS update, for obvious reasons.
I'd actually believe him without even hearing the video. Purely because I have used boards with 40mm chipset fans in the past and there is no escaping the fact that small fans need to run a lot faster to achieve adequate air displacement. So unless they run at extremely low rpm's (in which case they become redundant) they will always emit a higher frequency sound than normal system fans which is more audible. It's for this reason fans got bigger in case design and in general.

Granted, fan design has come a long way since I last heard that ghastly whine, followed by the clacking of fouled bearings. But I don't believe newer designs can mitigate it enough to be acceptable for my ears. Either way I dare not take the risk given what I know.
 

DefinitelyNotTom

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I'd actually believe him without even hearing the video. Purely because I have used boards with 40mm chipset fans in the past and there is no escaping the fact that small fans need to run a lot faster to achieve adequate air displacement. So unless they run at extremely low rpm's (in which case they become redundant) they will always emit a higher frequency sound than normal system fans which is more audible. It's for this reason fans got bigger in case design and in general.

Granted, fan design has come a long way since I last heard that ghastly whine, followed by the clacking of fouled bearings. But I don't believe newer designs can mitigate it enough to be acceptable for my ears. Either way I dare not take the risk given what I know.
Plus very, very, very few people need pcie 4. People already think I was ridiculous to buy nvme ssds at all, as most people say even nvme ones of any type are rarely really noticed with the speed increases. So really 5xx is only ideal for very few.

I'm definitely still regretting spending on the 3900x, though, rather than 4700x.

And now I wasted my $100 off $100 coupon. Seriously who gets $100 off $100 and then can't find anything to buy? By passing it up, I can get another coupon sooner than had I used it, but it's not often they do $100 ones. I just couldn't quite bring myself to spend $220 on a 2tb Samsung t5 or about $107 on a 1tb 970 evo plus. I could have gotten a 500gb 970 evo plus for $17 and then resold it. Maybe I should have done that... Had I been sure I wanted a sound card I could have gotten a sound blaster z for $17...
 

spacejunk

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Plus very, very, very few people need pcie 4. People already think I was ridiculous to buy nvme ssds at all, as most people say even nvme ones of any type are rarely really noticed with the speed increases. So really 5xx is only ideal for very few.

I'm definitely still regretting spending on the 3900x, though, rather than 4700x.

And now I wasted my $100 off $100 coupon. Seriously who gets $100 off $100 and then can't find anything to buy? By passing it up, I can get another coupon sooner than had I used it, but it's not often they do $100 ones. I just couldn't quite bring myself to spend $220 on a 2tb Samsung t5 or about $107 on a 1tb 970 evo plus. I could have gotten a 500gb 970 evo plus for $17 and then resold it. Maybe I should have done that... Had I been sure I wanted a sound card I could have gotten a sound blaster z for $17...

At which point do we actually commit to buying anything given the rate of development of CPU's recently. That is to say, by the time 4700x hits the shelves, a newer X-chip will be just on the horizon.

I'm only upgrading because my I3 - 6100 and gtx980 is starting to show it's age. Whether it's a 3600, 3700 or 3900, it will still be an effective upgrade.
 

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