Question Motherboard For Ryzen 3xxx

[DefinitelyNotTom]

ok, I am no way going to get a motherboard with a whining fan, so the x570 is out.

I thought well no problem I'll just use an x470 or b450 (I have a b450 bought and can still return it).

Well.... if I am reading correctly, to use a b450 or x470 for ryzen 3xxx, you must ALREADY HAVE a previous ryzen cpu set up with it in order to update the BIOS???

I am strongly considering backing out of selling my 2700x and just going ahead and building and forgetting that I am missing out on 3xxx.

I am already so tired of waiting for them to release the new cpus and it now confirmed none will be out before July... I sure don't want to wait even LONGER for b450 and x470 mobos on the market to have the latest firmware. Even the 2700x was already going to be overkill for my usage. Maybe I should cancel the sale and pretend 3700x won't exist?

Note: If I do build with 3700x, I'd almost surely be out close to $200 extra, as well. So deal with the hassle and pay $200 just to know I got the better hardware or keep what I have, save the money, still have more than I need.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

I don't need any buyers' reviews on Newegg or any other store. Even die hard Intel fan boys like Linus (Linus Tech Tips) are pretty confident the 3900X is the desktop king. You can spend more on a 9900K to get a small, inappreciable, benefit in some games, but the 3900X just destroys it in almost any real-world productivity or content creation app. And those it doesn't it just beats it a bunch.

Some of the reviewers are even coming right out and declaring they can find very little reason to recommend buying Intel... Ry3k is simply superior at every price point. And Linus even wonders about when Intel drops 10nm (Ice Lake?) what AMD will do next since they've got 3950X...then Ry4k and Ry5k in the works. It's good for PC consumers, there's competition, at last.

I'm honestly starting to worry and think I should cancel and get the 3700x.

Look at this: https://www.tomsguide.com/news/amd-ryzen-9-3900x-and-ryzen-7-3700x-benchmarks-why-amd-beats-intel

Notice the title makes it sound like amd just blew intel away, but look at the benchmarks... It doesn't do much better than the intels in ANYTHING, even their productivity tests, which is basically excel and office. The 3900x costs 50% more than the 3700x and has 50% more cores. to be worth it, it should do close to 50% better than the 3700x in SOMETHING. If it's only going to be less than 10% better, even in productivity, it's not worth it.

On the plus side, it shows the amds are right there with the intels in web browsing... so I definitely will go with amd, but I am deciding between the 3700x and 3900x now. Notice the 3700x even does BETTER in web browsing than the 3900x. It would save $170, cut power usage practically in half, etc... The only way the 3900x is worth it is if it vastly outdoes the 3700x in SOME applications, but it sure didn't in any at that link.

 

[drea.drechsler]

I'm honestly starting to worry and think I should cancel and get the 3700x.

Look at this: https://www.tomsguide.com/news/amd-ryzen-9-3900x-and-ryzen-7-3700x-benchmarks-why-amd-beats-intel

Notice the title makes it sound like amd just blew intel away, but look at the benchmarks... It doesn't do much better than the intels in ANYTHING, even their productivity tests, which is basically excel and office. The 3900x costs 50% more than the 3700x and has 50% more cores. to be worth it, it should do close to 50% better than the 3700x in SOMETHING. If it's only going to be less than 10% better, even in productivity, it's not worth it.

On the plus side, it shows the amds are right there with the intels in web browsing... so I definitely will go with amd, but I am deciding between the 3700x and 3900x now. Notice the 3700x even does BETTER in web browsing than the 3900x. It would save $170, cut power usage practically in half, etc... The only way the 3900x is worth it is if it vastly outdoes the 3700x in SOME applications, but it sure didn't in any at that link.

AMD was the equal of Intel for web browsing all the way through the FX era, btw.

"Is it worth it" is always a much more difficult question to answer. Especially when it comes to gaming.

But where time is money (for rendering/encoding/compiling), you really owe it to your share holders to put together the fastest system possible for the dollar. And when your office can now put together two systems (no more time-sharing the video edit machine!) for the price of one Intel AND get demonstrably faster performance on each one? Yeah, it's worth it for that.

It's strictly personal what's worth it to you. For me, it's worth it for the 3600X, but even then it's mostly emotional and a future-proofing gambit as my 2 1/2 yo. 1700 is getting long in the tooth now.

And oh yeah, reviews are gimped. There was an error in boosting algorithm's in the first BIOS on their review boards and they have to update BIOS to fix boosting behaviour as it wasn't getting to highest boost clocks during heavy loads. Anandtech had a July 8 update to their reviews explaining this and that they're re-running benchmarks and will post the results into the article when done.

All that does is emphasize that this is a new platform with growing pains; it will only get better from here.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

AMD was the equal of Intel for web browsing all the way through the FX era, btw.

"Is it worth it" is always a much more difficult question to answer. Especially when it comes to gaming.

But where time is money (for rendering/encoding/compiling), you really owe it to your share holders to put together the fastest system possible for the dollar. And when your office can now put together two systems (no more time-sharing the video edit machine!) for the price of one Intel AND get demonstrably faster performance on each one? Yeah, it's worth it for that.

It's strictly personal what's worth it to you. For me, it's worth it for the 3600X, but even then it's mostly emotional and a future-proofing gambit as my 2 1/2 yo. 1700 is getting long in the tooth now.

And oh yeah, reviews are gimped. There was an error in boosting algorithm's in the first BIOS on their review boards and they have to update BIOS to fix boosting behaviour as it wasn't getting to highest boost clocks during heavy loads. Anandtech had a July 8 update to their reviews explaining this and that they're re-running benchmarks and will post the results into the article when done.

All that does is emphasize that this is a new platform with growing pains; it will only get better from here.

I think I mentioned this, but if not... gamersnexus did testing again with the newer BIOS and confirmed it made almost no difference at all (less than 2%).

 

[drea.drechsler]

I think I mentioned this, but if not... gamersnexus did testing again with the newer BIOS and confirmed it made almost no difference at all (less than 2%).

Where the deltas (for gaming) were 5-6%, 2% improvement is a lot. And the also do note they are using $1200 graphic cards to put maximum emphasis on CPU performance deltas. Tech Deals did some testing using video card the average gamer is more likely to use. Interesting results.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0uB17Io2is&t=4s

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

Cool now someone on reddit said the 3900x uses up to THREE HUNDRED watts on high loads. I have only a 550 watt psu, which everything I looked at (including psu calculators for what psu you'd need) said that was plenty for my build. I'm not buying a new psu. If it really hits 300 that is flat ridiculous.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

This sucks. I just can't decide on anything. 3700x vs 3900x and b450 vs x570.

Since I'd rarely do the big multithread stuff like editing... maybe I should cancel the 3900x and be happy with the 3700x? I mean it's not like one works with editing and one doesn't.... It's just that one makes it faster (and even then, it's only in some programs).

I thought well 3900x is more future proof, but I wonder if it would really make a difference inm when I'd get another. Some would say by the time I'd need the 12 cores, I'd be wanting faster RAM and other stuff and should save the $170 now and upgrade more parts in the future...

 

[ElectrO_90]

Cool now someone on reddit said the 3900x uses up to THREE HUNDRED watts on high loads. I have only a 550 watt psu, which everything I looked at (including psu calculators for what psu you'd need) said that was plenty for my build. I'm not buying a new psu. If it really hits 300 that is flat ridiculous.

If it's on reddit, it must be true!

 

[TJ Hooker]

If you've heavily overclocked it and you're running an AVX-heavy power-virus type stress test (e.g. Prime95), maybe you could get close to 300W with a 3900X. Otherwise, yeah, not even close.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

yeah the consensus from others I mentioned that to pretty much said either the person was spreading fake info or else it would have to be some big OC, whereas I don't OC at all...

Any thoughts on my dilemma of choosing between 3700x and 3900x, though? I have to figure it out mighty, mighty soon and cancel my 3900x before it ships if I decide I should just get the 3700x.

What sucks is I was looking at all of the costs and what I've already spent and I am insanely above what I meant to spend. Mostly because I kept reselling parts before using them, at losses, to get better parts...

But once I am already going to be up there around $1600-$1700 if I get the 3700x, I about think maybe I should bite the bullet and pay the extra $170...

 

[TJ Hooker]

I don't know what anyone could say that hasn't already been said (probably more than once) within the seven pages of this thread.

 

[gn842a]

(...)

That doesn't mean the 2700x you have won't be relevant: it will still be the back-bone of a terrific performing system. By the time an equal-performing 3000 series processor falls into a price range of 'affordable' your motherboard will certainly have BIOS support for it and you'll have updated to it.

Zactly so. I was using a five year old build up to a couple of weeks ago and now I've got a one month old build. It's a Ryzen 5 - 2600X. I'm using it on the ASUS Prime X470 pro.

Really better off putting money into the graphics card IMO. And put on a pile of RAM.

About the fan: I suppose it depends on the model of chip, but the one that came with my 2600X was so quiet I was going to leave it in. But it is a top down blower and I think--not sure--that I'm better off with the side blower so I took the OEM out and installed the Noctua from my previous build. I had to buy a little kit to install it on the AM4. If you're worried about noise the best solution is to get a Noctua. The heat sink provided by AMD is by far and away the best quality fan that I have ever seen as a comes-with unit on a computer. I'm not "in the biz" but I've seen a few....

About the drivers: I'm not sure what the issue is I just navigated to the web site and downloaded drivers. Newegg has a part I and part II series on how to build you r own computer the second part is about software and getting drivers and such. I forgot to look to see if there was a DVD for drivers sent with the board....well there is a DVD so you can install drivers from that but you would be well advised (on any build) to navigate to the company web site for latest and greatest drivers. Here's the link to the part II of the how-to on the software and drivers. I went through it twice and took notes the second time. I've done it before.

You can also download drivers to a memory stick as demo'd in the Newegg movie.

I'm enjoying my new computer still have some bugs to iron out. But it is the best computer I've ever owned and the last one was, when I put it together, the then-best. I used it for 5 1/2 years.

This one is much faster. If you like having latest and greatest get a cheap power supply that way when it blows you can upgrade.

Greg N

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

I don't know what anyone could say that hasn't already been said (probably more than once) in the 7 pages of this thread.

Nobody's said really anything (about that comparison).

3700x would be good enough, but my thinking on it was that I went to trouble (and a loss) tos ell my 2700x and delayed my build, so the 3700x feels less worth doing all of that, as it's a step up, but barely one... just a typical generational 20% jump. The 3900x is more than I need currently, probably, but a bigger jump and maybe could slow up my next temptation to upgrade for a year or two beyond what a 3700x would.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

Zactly so. I was using a five year old build up to a couple of weeks ago and now I've got a one month old build. It's a Ryzen 5 - 2600X. I'm using it on the ASUS Prime X470 pro.

Really better off putting money into the graphics card IMO. And put on a pile of RAM.

About the fan: I suppose it depends on the model of chip, but the one that came with my 2600X was so quiet I was going to leave it in. But it is a top down blower and I think--not sure--that I'm better off with the side blower so I took the OEM out and installed the Noctua from my previous build. I had to buy a little kit to install it on the AM4. If you're worried about noise the best solution is to get a Noctua. The heat sink provided by AMD is by far and away the best quality fan that I have ever seen as a comes-with unit on a computer. I'm not "in the biz" but I've seen a few....

About the drivers: I'm not sure what the issue is I just navigated to the web site and downloaded drivers. Newegg has a part I and part II series on how to build you r own computer the second part is about software and getting drivers and such. I forgot to look to see if there was a DVD for drivers sent with the board....well there is a DVD so you can install drivers from that but you would be well advised (on any build) to navigate to the company web site for latest and greatest drivers. Here's the link to the part II of the how-to on the software and drivers. I went through it twice and took notes the second time. I've done it before.

You can also download drivers to a memory stick as demo'd in the Newegg movie.

I'm enjoying my new computer still have some bugs to iron out. But it is the best computer I've ever owned and the last one was, when I put it together, the then-best. I used it for 5 1/2 years.

This one is much faster. If you like having latest and greatest get a cheap power supply that way when it blows you can upgrade.

Greg N

thanks for all of the info. it's going to be one big pain sorting all of that out, such as drivers and software, but I'm sure I'll get it all done.

Btw when you turn on the pc for the first time, wouldn't connecting the monitor to the gpu's inputs not work sicne there wouldn't be any drivers installed yet? Or it still would work so I can connect it to it? Also I may at first use my current monitor which has a dvi-d connection so I better be sure if I need an adaptor. there are several types of DVI, so gets confusing which the gpu and mobo supports.

 

[TJ Hooker]

Both the 3700X and the 3900X, and how they compare, have been talked about repeatedly in this thread. TLDR is that the 3900X is slightly better in lightly threaded loads, significantly better in all core loads. Whether than extra multi core performance is something only you can decide for yourself.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

Both the 3700X and the 3900X, and how they compare, have been talked about repeatedly in this thread. TLDR is that the 3900X is slightly better in lightly threaded loads, significantly better in all core loads. Whether than extra multi core performance is something only you can decide for yourself.

I already know all of that as I looked at benches in many programs. However, I can still ask people's opinions on whether or not it's worth it. If you don't want to give an opinion on it, you don't have to, but others can. As I said, I am having a hard time deciding. Also, there are obviously a ton of programs with no benches. Programs vary so much. Also, notice I was asking if the extra cores are likely going to be worth it in the long run, even if not needed now. That is a perfectly reasonable question, which others have asked, as well, and this is a site where people have experience building and know if they did or didn't regret not going higher up on part decisions for their builds.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

Juist noticed in a video that handbrake completes their encoded project in about FOUR minutes with an intel cpu, using quicksync, vs. THIRTY minutes for the 3900x. However, apparently it does have cuda acceleration, as well, so I assume I could knock that time down with that, but then why even bother getting the 3900x ifgyou'll use gpu acceleration?

that's really the depressing part of it all. I bought a 1070 ti, despite not gaming much, because I wanted to have good gpu acceleration options. Well if I use that, then tehre's no point at all to the good cpus… If I use the cpu for most everything, then there's no point I the gpu. One bad thing about gpu acceleration is supposedly quality takes a hit, as well.

edit: oh boy am I EVER so glad I trusted msi for the mobo choice. i'm sure some of you read on this very site how MSI has caused a headache of a situation where they have to put bigger BIOS chips in their 4xx mobos moving forward because they ran out of room onto fit all supported cpus on the existing ones. THEN as far as the BETA BIOS for the current 4xx mobos, you have to forfeit the RAID functionality to be able to update the BIOS. It never ends..... always an issue getting this pc prepared to be built. I am even considering getting an x570 because on newegg, if I get the bundle with 3700x, after $30 in rebates and $30 in savings it would be like getting the pro carbon x570 for $200. Just still nervous about the 40mm fan plus extra cost sucks.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

I'm about to get flat mad. drea, you were sure right about how ridiculous msi is being. NBot only do they STILL only have the BETA BIOS, but you should see hown many people have reported issue after issue with it on their forums, and a lot of the complaints are regarding the same mobo I bought, the b450 pro carbon. Not to mention the fact that they took out a lot of stuff from the BIOS because of the space issue I mentioned earlier in here.

It makes me really hesitant to use a msi product at this point. And the x570 I was considering is msi, too. So now as if I didn't have enough issues already determining parts, I have zero idea whatsoever about what to do for my mobo now. Due to generations of issues with audio reported on asrock mobos and bad recent reputation for gigabyte, all that's even left is asus and their mobos are expensive and not on deals.

 

[drea.drechsler]

...
It makes me really hesitant to use a msi product at this point. And the x570 I was considering is msi, too. ...

If you lurk Reddit threads a bit you'd see early adopters are having similar problems typical of launch products. Asus boards are over-heating processors with extremely high default voltages, for instance. But also important to remember you never hear from those who get their boards updated, processor installed and now too busy using them to post.

If you're going to be an early adopter you have to be prepared for this, if you aren't then buy only fully mature products. That means back to a nice little 2700X processor and board with a stable delivery BIOS on it. Or shell out the exorbitant cash required for old tech and get a factory overclocked 9900K.

I do believe MSI will get it together, but I can't let them off the hook for not keeping their users up to date on BIOS for the new processors. That's why the rumour that flew around about not even supporting 300 and 400 series boards with Ry3k BIOS' got so much traction. One would think they'd have learned.

 

[drea.drechsler]

Both the 3700X and the 3900X, and how they compare, have been talked about repeatedly in this thread.....

True...I think the value of the new platform is not hard to determine from the huge number of reviews flying in all over the internets. Not really worth it to try and dispute or support any position here anymore.

The real question is whether someone is prepared to deal with the issues and headaches of being an early adopter. That's a good thread all it's own.

 

[drea.drechsler]

I'm about to get flat mad. drea, you were sure right about how ridiculous msi is being....

And here i was agreed with TJ about all that can be said, has been covered....

You may want to send your board back. MSI is making NEW B450 boards with larger BIOS chips to hold full BIOS.

https://www.techpowerup.com/257240/...400-series-motherboards-with-256mb-bios-chips

Better board...but more wait. Or just live with the lesser eye candy of the GSE Lite BIOS and early adopter headaches.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

I know they are making the newer versions. That is what I was reading that led me to realize all of the issues, such as them dumbly even having a small enough BIOS chip to have this issue even arise. But there's no telling when those will come out, so it's likely not worth it to wait on them. At least ONE thing is smart of them, assuming those rumors are true, though.... Them changing the model number where you KNOW if you're getting an updated one or not.

As far as msiu not keeping people in the loop, what Iw ant to know is who in the world they have moderating their forums... The moderators there keep acting annoyed and lecturing people about them panicking over this situation and they keep talking about msi in third person like they have nothing to do with msi, yet it's forums right on msi.com... When the company put people in this mess of a situation, they should let people complain as it's understandable they're not happy with having bought the new cpus and then no stable BIOS release.

Well I was "thinking" about getting the x570 pro carbon, but I was reading how the x570 boards (I guess all of them?) use so much power that they're affecting comparisons between ryzen and intel because of issues due to that high power usage.

As for 3700x vs 3900x, I KNOW the differences between them. I never said I needed any more info to know which is better at which tasks. But I am still having a hard time deciding if the 3900x is worth it.

I've never built a pc and I've always bought low to mid level prebuilts. So it's hard for me to judge how likely it is that the 3900x's extra cores would really affect how long it would be before I want a new pc after this one.

This whole process has been a disaster. From now on I should never do this again where I buy parts a couple here and a couple there and take YEARS buying them. That's right, I bought my first parts for this build over 2 years ago.... and haven't opened a single part. I keep reselling so many parts I've lost a bundle. Next time I will know it's best to just buy everything right off instead of waiting for deals, because waiting for deals = time for new parts to come out and tempt you.

 

[DefinitelyNotTom]

I've got to flat out decide this stuff today. How I will beats me. I eman on the cpu decision, it's not the end of the world which ever one I get. the mobo is still the most stressful decision because every mobo has a problem for me... the msi b450 has the bios issues. Most others don't have flashback. b450 and x470 don't support the second ssd at 3.0x4 AND gpu at x16. So then the x570 supports all I want...…….. so they have to throw a tiny fan on it and charge a fortune. lol.

I think the asus crosshair ones did have a flashback feature... but probably those will be more expensive than a lot of x570 mobos.

Also my cases I am interested in keep not going on sale and none of these mobos I am looking into are itx or matx! Shouldn't be this hard to get a compact mobo that supports ryzen 3 and doesn't have a tiny fan.

 

[TJ Hooker]

Juist noticed in a video that handbrake completes their encoded project in about FOUR minutes with an intel cpu, using quicksync, vs. THIRTY minutes for the 3900x. However, apparently it does have cuda acceleration, as well, so I assume I could knock that time down with that, but then why even bother getting the 3900x ifgyou'll use gpu acceleration?

FYI, there can be quality differences when using hardware encoders instead of software encoders. So it isn't a 100% apples to apples comparison with regard to HW vs SW encode times.

 

[drea.drechsler]

I've got to flat out decide this stuff today. How I will beats me. ....

FYI, there can be quality differences when using hardware encoders instead of software encoders. So it isn't a 100% apples to apples comparison with regard to HW vs SW encode times.

Now I'm beginning to think you should take your use-case to a new thread and get advice from people who have very specific backgrounds in the applications you use and what you want to do. You may be much better off looking for a specific hardware combination, e.g., CPU, memory, GPU and NVME combination, to provide optimum performance. It may be more suitable than looking at a general purpose computer that tries to shine in all areas but never gets best at the one thing you really need it to be best at.

 

[gn842a]

thanks for all of the info. it's going to be one big pain sorting all of that out, such as drivers and software, but I'm sure I'll get it all done.

Btw when you turn on the pc for the first time, wouldn't connecting the monitor to the gpu's inputs not work since there wouldn't be any drivers installed yet? Or it still would work so I can connect it to it? Also I may at first use my current monitor which has a dvi-d connection so I better be sure if I need an adaptor. there are several types of DVI, so gets confusing which the gpu and mobo supports.

AMD makes this pretty easy. First, when you install the gpu and boot up you get a primitive level of functionality. Not what you want on a permanent basis but enough to get you started. The mobo cpu and chip and OS people are all hip to the fact that you need to install the operating system, get that running, and then worry about your drivers. This is all in the video to which I provided a link. When you get to the AMD web site you will be offered several download options the best for a noob like me is autodetect where they just say OK we'll see what you got and tell you what to download. This is all true of Intel builds too btw.

If you have a total panic attack they are still providing DVDs. But your most updated drivers will be from the manufacturer.

They will try to get you to sign up for some kind of system that links your phone and mobo etc. which sounds like a nightmare to me so take a pass on that IMO.
Be advised that during the install process things seem to "hang up" but what is happening is that you are being asked to authorize the download and the window for that is underneath other stuff you may have open.

My build with the 2600x benchmarked at 78% which is the best I've ever done (UserBenchmark). The best I had before was "Yacht" now I've got a "battleship."

The thing is most of the benefit is not in the CPU but in the graphics card. Anyhow for reference the basic build is

Asus Prime x470 pro with Ryzen 5 2600X cpu
Samsung NVMe SSD 500 gigs installed on the mobo, where it runs Win 10
G. Skill DDR4 3200 RAM -- I currently have 32 gigs, but I benchmarked it with 16 gigs as well. So with 16 gigs I'm at 74% and a "battleship" whereas 32 gigs notches me up only 4% and I'm still a "battleship." (The weapons get meaner and nastier as you rise higher)
Seasonic PSU 850 Watt which is totally overkill get the next lower

That's a very basic setup which is in the $700 to $800 category until you start getting fancy with fans and extra drives and what not. Maybe an extra $200 for that. I'm also kind of assuming you're re-using whatever case you have on hand.

If I were going to push my build a bit further I would have gotten the 8 gig version of the gpu for another 80 bucks. This is more important than focusing on the cpu in my opinion.

Greg N