Motherboard or DVD issue?

[gluchy]

Hello,

(I am not sure where to post - I just think it is due to motherboard configuration)

I have a system consisting of ASUS P5BE, E6600 CPUE and Plextor 760A (IDE). I noticed that system becomes overwhelmed when just coping the file from the DVD to the disk. Mind you the drive is IDE so that it is connected to JMicron controller, the HD is SATA. The file being transferred was a large VOB file. The symptoms were limited to slow response in application opening times, mouse was choppy, etc. Only one CPU core was used extensively at the time, the other one was only idling with occasional peaks.

So the question is: is there something I can adjust, change or perhaps reconfigure to alleviate the issue?

Thanks,

Gluchy.

 

[TabrisDarkPeace]

You need to (re)install, or upgrade, your chipset drivers and ensure that DMA Mode is enabled for all optical drives.

I'd check the Event Viewer system logs also, for errors related to it.

 

[rwpritchett]

Check and make sure that your optical drive isn't installed as a SCSI device in "Device Manager". It should be installed as an IDE device. The P5B's are infamous for this. Post back and confirm if the drive is seen as SCSI or IDE in device manager and we'll go from there.

 

[gluchy]

Thanks guys, I will check it and provide feedback once I get back home this evening.

gluchy.

 

[rwpritchett]

When I first set up my P5B-Deluxe, I too was getting the choppy mouse everytime the DVD-ROM would access a disc. I also had problems burning discs. Plus, when I right-clicked on my DVD drive and went to "Properties", the recording tab was missing altogether. This all went away after I fixed the SCSI-IDE issue. By default, the JMicron controller is set up as a SCSI controller and you don't get the advantages of DMA that you get with IDE devices.

I'm pretty certain that this is your problem. Here's the thread that I followed to correct the problem:

Topic : Primary IDE & DVD problems

Note - if you have the JMicron set up as AHCI in BIOS, there should be TWO JMicron controllers in device manager: one will remain SCSI (for the SATA ports) and the other will need to be changed to IDE (for the IDE ports). If you are not using the JMicron SATA ports, leave the BIOS setting to "IDE" and you'll only need to deal with one controller in device manager.

Post back and let us know if this solves your problem when you get home.

 

[gluchy]

Well, this is retarted... this is beyond retarted! Over last few hours I have been trying to play around with various settings, including the BIOS. None of them helped. Each time I would achieve the described symptoms, while setting suggested configuration: BIOS JMicron set to IDE, and I had single JMB36X controller. (burning using nero would take 200 minutes - it burned 10% in about 20 minutes - then I terminated the burn). I even updated the drivers to the latest once from JMicron site. I checked the log: I found some old "bad block" and crc error messages from yesterday, yet nothing from today while the issue continue.

Then I started looking farther and farther until I came across this link
- basically suggesting beta version of the driver.

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=29&threadid=1959001

Well I tried and the results are surprising to say the least: suddenly the Plextor IDE became SCSI CDROM Device while I have a SCSI and Raid controller in my Device Manager: JMicron JMB36X Controller. This is while my BIOS is still set to IDE!!! I tried coping and burning - I burned the DVD in about 12 minutes (maybe a little more), no more lag or mouse jumping, and CPU (both cores) do not even seem to notice the process!!

(I also have to ICH8 SATA controllers (2 and 4 port) and 2 Primary and 2 Secondary IDE channels - before the driver update I had 3 IDE channels each and Primary JMicron IDE controller - if it matters)

Oh BTW, it is not a mistake, the DVDR is showing as SCSI CDROM, it has no Recording tab, yet I can use it as burner.

This is completely oposite to what rwpritchett suggested - yet system is stable, yet my pedantic site tells me it is not normal or simply completely counterintuitive.

Should I set my BIOS to AHCI to compliment configuration?

rwpritchett and others - thanks for help

 

[rwpritchett]

That's what I was trying to say before, even though it's set as IDE in the BIOS, it is detected as SCSI in device manager.

Just leave it on IDE in BIOS, go into device manager, expand the SCSI tree, and right click on the JMicron controller.
Select update driver.
Select "no" to internet driver update.
Select install from specific location.
Select I will choose driver to install.
Last, select the generic windows IDE driver.

Upon reboot, your optical drive will now be seen as an IDE device and you can check and make sure DMA is enabled.

 

[gluchy]

rwpritchett, thank you again for help. I just want to clarify the issue: I had the Standard IDE controler in my Device Manager, then I did the driver update and it became JMicron IDE controller. All of that did not help and the symptons I described persisted.
My lengthy troubleshooting process (that I might have not been clear on) led me to another driver upgrade (from the link I provided) that actually installed the SCSI Drive and Raid Controller option in Device Manager and changed how the DVDR is recognized: from IDE to SCSI.

So, what you are telling me, I should use your described process and change it back to IDE?

(please be patient with me, if I am asking all these stupid questions )

gluchy

 

[BustedSony]

rwpritchett, thank you again for help. I just want to clarify the issue: I had the Standard IDE controler in my Device Manager, then I did the driver update and it became JMicron IDE controller. All of that did not help and the symptons I described persisted.
My lengthy troubleshooting process (that I might have not been clear on) led me to another driver upgrade (from the link I provided) that actually installed the SCSI Drive and Raid Controller option in Device Manager and changed how the DVDR is recognized: from IDE to SCSI.

So, what you are telling me, I should use your described process and change it back to IDE?

(please be patient with me, if I am asking all these stupid questions )

gluchy

The JMicron port is not officially recommended for Atapi devices (DVDroms) and the generic Microsoft drivers exacerbate the issue. You SHOULD use the Jmicron drivers, the device SHOULD show as a SCSI CDrom, and yes at least one version of the Jmicron driver is buggy. I solved my own problem with the Jmicron port (IDE Hard Drive dropping out) by changing to an OLDER Jmicron driver (The one that came with the Motherboard CD rather than the latest from the Jmicron site.)

 

[rwpritchett]

I'm afraid I must disagree with you BustedSony. In my case and many others on the Asus forum, there is nothing wrong with using Standard IDE drivers for the JMicron IDE ports. Do you have a source to site that can back up your claim? I'm not trying to be critical of your claim, however I am curious and would like some tangible evidence that would say otherwise. I was unable to use my optical drives before, but with it set up with the standard IDE driver I get excellent read/write and burst rates (Nero benchmarks) and haven't made any coasters since. I have seen that there is a JMicron beta driver around that supposedly fixes a lot of issues, any word on that?

Also, JMicron officially does support ATAPI (source) though you may see otherwise from motherboard manufacturers. Personally, I always go by what the chipset manufacturer says, since they are the experts. I also prefer to get my drivers (VGA, chipset, audio, etc.) straight from the manufacturers rather than from the motherboard site.

 

[rwpritchett]

So, what you are telling me, I should use your described process and change it back to IDE?

Do whatever fixes the problem. If SCSI works best for you, then use it. I'm only passing on what fixed my own problem and others on the Asus forum. I've seen on other forums that there is a JMicron beta driver that is supposed to fix all of these issues but I cannot personally vouch for it. My optical drives are working perfectly, and as the old adage says..."If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" Try different JMicron drivers or the standard IDE driver and stick with whatever makes the problem go away. If this doesn't help you, then I'm at the limits of my advice based on my own experiences.

 

[BustedSony]

I'm afraid I must disagree with you BustedSony. In my case and many others on the Asus forum, there is nothing wrong with using Standard IDE drivers for the JMicron IDE ports. Do you have a source to site that can back up your claim? I'm not trying to be critical of your claim, however I am curious and would like some tangible evidence that would say otherwise. I was unable to use my optical drives before, but with it set up with the standard IDE driver I get excellent read/write and burst rates (Nero benchmarks) and haven't made any coasters since. I have seen that there is a JMicron beta driver around that supposedly fixes a lot of issues, any word on that?

Also, JMicron officially does support ATAPI (source) though you may see otherwise from motherboard manufacturers. Personally, I always go by what the chipset manufacturer says, since they are the experts. I also prefer to get my drivers (VGA, chipset, audio, etc.) straight from the manufacturers rather than from the motherboard site.

Personal experience on at least five systems I've built., like the OP's they work better with the specific drivers. After all why MAKE Jmicron drivers if they have no advantage?! Yes the system WILL work with the default Microsoft drivers, that's good because it means the Jmicron port can be used to boot for a new install, but it works BETTER with the specific drivers. The OP seems to have got his DVDrom working properly with the Jmicron drivers, why change anything?

Also I should add that I have a hot-swap tray connected to the Jmicron port. Hot swapping only works with the Jmicron drivers, the default drivers cause hangs when the drive is removed.

 

[rwpritchett]

Personal experience on at least five systems I've built., like the OP's they work better with the specific drivers. After all why MAKE Jmicron drivers if they have no advantage?! Yes the system WILL work with the default Microsoft drivers, that's good because it means the Jmicron port can be used to boot for a new install, but it works BETTER with the specific drivers.

I agree, like I said before I always use manufacturer drivers because they usually work better. They are the experts. In my case however, and others, the JMicron IDE drivers simply don't work for us. From my personal experience, I've never used generic drivers before. Did all five of those systems have the JMicron 363 controller BTW?

The OP seems to have got his DVDrom working properly with the Jmicron drivers, why change anything?

That's what I said before,.. "If it ain't broke..."

Also I should add that I have a hot-swap tray connected to the Jmicron port. Hot swapping only works with the Jmicron drivers, the default drivers cause hangs when the drive is removed.

Hot swapping only applies to the SATA ports, not the IDE ports. When AHCI is selected in the BIOS, two JMicron devices show up under device manager (on my system anyway) and the two devices use different drivers. The SATA controller is listed under SCSI (as it should be) and the IDE controller is listed under IDE controllers. Is that how yours appears or do you have both JMicron devices under the SCSI tree? When set to IDE in the BIOS, it only shows up as a single SCSI controller if I remember right. Perhaps setting the BIOS to AHCI splits the controller up since AHCI cannot be applied to the IDE ports. For the SATA ports, I use the latest JMicron drivers. But the IDE controller is using the standard PCI IDE controller driver and it works better for me according to benchmarks, burn failures, and mouse lockups (or lack there-of).

 

[gluchy]

So, what you are telling me, I should use your described process and change it back to IDE?

Do whatever fixes the problem. If SCSI works best for you, then use it. I'm only passing on what fixed my own problem and others on the Asus forum. I've seen on other forums that there is a JMicron beta driver that is supposed to fix all of these issues but I cannot personally vouch for it. My optical drives are working perfectly, and as the old adage says..."If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" Try different JMicron drivers or the standard IDE driver and stick with whatever makes the problem go away. If this doesn't help you, then I'm at the limits of my advice based on my own experiences.

rwpritchett, I did not mean to question your experience and expertize in that matter. As matter of fact your suggestion aided in fixing the problem. My question is purely based on MY lack of knowledge with this subject and need to clarify the process. Another reason is that my experiences are new, therefore I thought that I am still doing something stupid despite having positive results. Again, thank you very much for the help.

I also have another question for all of you: I have external SATA drive, that is working just fine: if I continue using JMicron as SCSI does it mean the drive becomes "hot swappable"? (when I want to use it now, I need to turn it on before I turn on the system)

Thanks,

gluchy

 

[rwpritchett]

For hot-swapping, you must have the JMicron set to "AHCI" in the BIOS I believe and the SATA ports should be seen as SCSI. Like I said before, when my system is set to AHCI, the SATA and IDE ports split up into separate controllers in device manager, one SCSI the other IDE. BustedSony will know more on this since he's using the hot-swap features. Here's another post on the Asus P5B-Deluxe Formum concerning this matter:

Topic : SATA II Compatibility

BustedSony: A little help needed here. :lol:

A short term work around is to scan for new devices after you plug in the external HDD, but you should be able to get it to hot-swap.

P.S. I don't take any offense to anyone questioning my experience or advice on these forums. I'm not an expert, I just know the P5B's in-and-out from constant tinkering with mine. Plus, I enjoy reading the Asus forums to pass on helpful info here on Tom's.

 

[BustedSony]

For hot-swapping, you must have the JMicron set to "AHCI" in the BIOS I believe and the SATA ports should be seen as SCSI. Like I said before, when my system is set to AHCI, the SATA and IDE ports split up into separate controllers in device manager, one SCSI the other IDE. BustedSony will know more on this since he's using the hot-swap features. Here's another post on the Asus P5B-Deluxe Formum concerning this matter:

Topic : SATA II Compatibility

BustedSony: A little help needed here. :lol:

A short term work around is to scan for new devices after you plug in the external HDD, but you should be able to get it to hot-swap.

P.S. I don't take any offense to anyone questioning my experience or advice on these forums. I'm not an expert, I just know the P5B's in-and-out from constant tinkering with mine. Plus, I enjoy reading the Asus forums to pass on helpful info here on Tom's.

Here is Jmicron's own Faq on the matter http://www.jmicron.com/Support_FAQ.html

Quote "Q3 Why device manager of windows show ide cdrom as an SCSI device?
Ans: JMB driver base on Windows SCSI mini port driver architecture , if any device attach on JMB controller will be an SCSI device. "

A problem I'm having with my P5W DH as we speak is that the hard drive which is on the Jmicron IDE port has disappeared from Devices, though it's detected ok during boot. The Drive was on the default IDE driver, and the sata drive on the Jmicron AHCI driver. I'm trying an update now since going to the "Basic" configuration in Bios will reduce Sata functionality, though it WILL retain Hot-Swap capability.

Again, if everything is working, leave it.

 

[rwpritchett]

Thanks for the link BS. I think I might try to use that beta JMicron driver when I get home just to see how it compares, even though I'm happy with the configuration as it stands.

A problem I'm having with my P5W DH as we speak is that the hard drive which is on the Jmicron IDE port has disappeared from Devices, though it's detected ok during boot. The Drive was on the default IDE driver, and the sata drive on the Jmicron AHCI driver. I'm trying an update now since going to the "Basic" configuration in Bios will reduce Sata functionality, though it WILL retain Hot-Swap capability.

What does the "Basic" setting set the JMicron controller to? Is that the equivalent of IDE setting on the P5B? I've heard a lot about people having trouble with HDDs on the JMicron. You could look into getting a PATA->SATA converter from newegg so you can run it from the Intel SATA controller.

 

[BustedSony]

Thanks for the link BS. I think I might try to use that beta JMicron driver when I get home just to see how it compares, even though I'm happy with the configuration as it stands.

A problem I'm having with my P5W DH as we speak is that the hard drive which is on the Jmicron IDE port has disappeared from Devices, though it's detected ok during boot. The Drive was on the default IDE driver, and the sata drive on the Jmicron AHCI driver. I'm trying an update now since going to the "Basic" configuration in Bios will reduce Sata functionality, though it WILL retain Hot-Swap capability.

What does the "Basic" setting set the JMicron controller to? Is that the equivalent of IDE setting on the P5B? I've heard a lot about people having trouble with HDDs on the JMicron. You could look into getting a PATA->SATA converter from newegg so you can run it from the Intel SATA controller.

"Basic" sets the IDE and Sata ports to IDE mode. However hot-swapping for the Sata drive still works. The IDE DVDrom and IDE hard drives will show as SCSI devices. "AHCI" sets the Sata drive to, erm, AHCI, but devices on the IDE port don't generally work, though Jmicron says they should. "Raid" mode should be used carefully, since I've lost a drive full of data using this when adding it as Esata. 'nuff said.