[SOLVED] Mouse issue present throughout entire PC

grinmore

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PC specs:
MOBO: Gigabyte z270x gaming 7
CPU: i7-7700k 4.2ghz
GPU: GTX 1070 strix rog
RAM: Corsair vengeance 16gb 2x at 3000mhz
PSU: Corsair 750w
OS: Win 10 pro latest build 1909
M: Zowie EC-1B
K: QCK+ heavy
MON: Asus vgq248e 144hz w/ display port


I have posted here before in the Win 10 section and didn't have any luck. I believe the post was deleted as I cannot find it anymore.

long story short, I have a mouse issue. By mouse issue I mean that every single movement and interaction with the mouse is inconsistant, inaccurate and overall an absolute nightmare to use in any capacity.

regular desktop usage

gaming

browsing

the mouse movement is inconsistent everywhere in the PC from the time it is booted all the way to the windows shut down screen.

This issue has followed me through 2 operating systems 2 different builds and 10 years of gaming.

I wanted to make another post here to give all the hard evidence I have and maybe someone will see it and think of a possible reason as to what is causing this issue.

What I know for certain:

1. The mouse (any mice) function as intended. E.G. moving the cursor and the physical mouse is no issue and the mouse/mice are not faulty as I have tested about 7 of them.

2. The mouse feels good in both Linux EVEN WITH acceleration enabled AND after a fresh reinstall of windows 10 (but only for a couple hours).

3. This issue is not a placebo as I have had several people test their mice and my mouse on my PC ranging from regular gamers to casual pc users, all test subjects complained in some capacity about the mouse being "inconsistant, hard to use, and overall a really bad feeling" (If it was in my head I would've accepted it a long time ago and moved back to console for gaming. Believe me I wish it was.)

shortly after a reinstall though either a reboot, or a certain amount of time goes by. The system will freeze for about half a second barely noticable and then the input of the mouse will change. and it will stay that way no matter what.

Things that I have tested/changed:

full replacement of CPU, GPU, PSU, RAM, M/K, and MOBO

install/reinstall of all Windows/software drivers (Chipset, MEI, Graphics drivers, USB drivers)

My question among many, here is:

What could be causing the mouse to change after either: an unknown amount of time or a reboot after a fresh install of win 10?

For reference and clarification of the depth of this issue and the steps taken to alleviate it:

Ehance pointer percision is off
Gpu settings are stable
temperatures are nominal, never above 55c on either cpu or gpu while under load
All device manager drivers have been checked/reinstalled/updated
several different chipset versions were tested
entirety of the first pc was rebuilt, all parts replaced
All mice used and tested were tested on a control machine and behaved fine
power to and from system components is within regulation


elaborating on a point made above:
when loading into LinuxMint from a USB drive the mouse felt more responsive there even with high amounts of noticable acceleration than the mouse has felt on windows in the past 10 years, it was a night and day feeling.

I am out of options, thoughts and ideas

If anyone has any input at all I would greatly appreciate it.

Thank you in advance

I do apologize for the long post, this issue has been a thorn in my side for so long that tons of data and information has been collected all in hope of resolving it.

~Grinmore
 
There is a button you have to click in order for it to generate the reports and you can dig into the details and it will show what all your drivers are up to because something is wrong

When you do the clean install of windows do you just leave it alone after that or do you add other drivers?
 

Ralston18

Titan
Moderator
Dual boot PC - You mentioned Windows and Linux - are you and have you always used dual boot?

What apps do you run in the background (especially those apps launched as part of the Startup Tab)?

Your #2 certainty:

"The mouse feels good in both Linux EVEN WITH acceleration enabled AND after a fresh reinstall of windows 10 (but only for a couple hours)."

That suggests to me that there is something in the computer's configuration creating a conflict of some sort. The conflict may be non-existent or small at first then "grows" to the point of a misbehaving mouse.

Tools: You might be able to discover such a conflict by using Task Manager, Resource Monitor, or Process Explorer to observe system performance. Possibly with need to observe immediately after a fresh reinstall of Windows and continuing observations until and through the problem reappearing.

My suggestion: scale back to as basic a startup as you can. Leave Linux out of/off of the computer. Find a configuration wherein mouse behavior is stable and as it should be.

Then start adding in other apps and configuration settings one by one allowing time for the problem to reappear or not.

Keep monitoring the performance via the tools.
 
Reactions: Mandark

grinmore

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Oct 25, 2016
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Dual boot PC - You mentioned Windows and Linux - are you and have you always used dual boot?

What apps do you run in the background (especially those apps launched as part of the Startup Tab)?

Your #2 certainty:

"The mouse feels good in both Linux EVEN WITH acceleration enabled AND after a fresh reinstall of windows 10 (but only for a couple hours)."

That suggests to me that there is something in the computer's configuration creating a conflict of some sort. The conflict may be non-existent or small at first then "grows" to the point of a misbehaving mouse.

Tools: You might be able to discover such a conflict by using Task Manager, Resource Monitor, or Process Explorer to observe system performance. Possibly with need to observe immediately after a fresh reinstall of Windows and continuing observations until and through the problem reappearing.

My suggestion: scale back to as basic a startup as you can. Leave Linux out of/off of the computer. Find a configuration wherein mouse behavior is stable and as it should be.

Then start adding in other apps and configuration settings one by one allowing time for the problem to reappear or not.

Keep monitoring the performance via the tools.
first of all, thank for your reply and suggestion it means alot to me.

second to answer your questions:

No I have ONLY used Linux once separately from a USB to test the feeling between them, it was a removable storage device and after the testing was done I stopped using it. All time before and after those tests were spent in a single OS.

Your second concern "Back ground apps and startup:

Each time I do a fresh install I only download Chrome, Discord, Steam and GPU drivers. That is all, I even disable quite a few stock windows apps I.E.: Skype, OneDrive, Xbox app etc.

as far as I know all of those are standard and should not be conflicting in any way, but I am open to any influence. I rule nothing out here, I've seen harder problems solved with simpler answers.

In regards to using "Usage monitoring systems"

I have used Task manager, resource manager, event viewer, system information, driver viewer, driver verifer, windows event viewer, system reliability, and Windows boot log reports extensively.

I have so far been unable to pin the issue down to a single process, or conflict. After a win 10 reinstall the even viewer runs anywhere from 1000-1,500 entries in the first hour, and if the point at which the mouse changes is missed there is no chance to catch it again. That is why reinstalling the OS is the only way to tell a difference even if only for a short time.

Task manager and Resource manager both show small spikes up to about 20-25% followed by a micro stutter where the whole system freezes for 0.25 of a second. That is literally the ONLY chance that I get to find and isolate the issue it is an EXTREMELY small window.

You would think that an entire system stutter would show 100% cpu usage but that is not the case, it happens in a such a short amount of time the system doesn't even register it as an issue.

Seeing it freeze for that quarter of a second makes me think something is loading, or system resources are being requisitioned somewhere else.

As for event viewer, I have seen several entries of drivers installing and failing, but all of them resolve themselves, I have no idea where to begin with what could be causing a conflict BESIDES drivers OR Kernel.

Thank you for your reply again, it does mean alot to get any help on this at all.

If you come up with anything else at all please don't hesitate to reply.

~Grinmore
 

grinmore

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Latency issues perhaps. Use LatencyMon to monitor them and see what driver is misbehaving
Thanks for the reply I appreciate it, any bit helps.

Would you mind elaborating on LatencyMon, because I've used it before and was only able to tell what the general latency was. Was not able to personally utilize it for any purpose other than that.

Thanks again, any other ideas please feel free to reply

~Grinmore
 

grinmore

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It tells you what drivers are taking too long. Look at the reports that it generates
I will have another look at it then, I didn't know that it generated reports. I'll see if I can find anything useful in it.

If you come up with anything else, please let me know. I do appreciate the help.

Thanks for the reply

~Grinmore
 
There is a button you have to click in order for it to generate the reports and you can dig into the details and it will show what all your drivers are up to because something is wrong

When you do the clean install of windows do you just leave it alone after that or do you add other drivers?
 

grinmore

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Oct 25, 2016
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There is a button you have to click in order for it to generate the reports and you can dig into the details and it will show what all your drivers are up to because something is wrong

When you do the clean install of windows do you just leave it alone after that or do you add other drivers?
When I reinstall windows from start to finish:

Restart with USB with win 10 install media on it selected as primary boot drive

open install tool, format and then delete the drive partitions and then create new ones

install OS with as few options enabled as possible E.G.: Limited Cortana, no usage statistics, no one drive etc.

boot into windows for the first time

from this point I will either install chipset drivers or let windows find them, after the first reboot the feeling of the mouse WILL change every single time, but as to not point fingers at the chipset drivers, I have left the pc alone for hours on end WITHOUT drivers and the issue came back.

After the desktop boots and windows does or does not find drivers the usual path is:

chipset driver

Intel management engine

Nvidia driver

Sound blaster Recon3di

Chrome

Steam

Discord.

So neither using or not using core system drivers makes no discernable difference atleast on the surface

As an important side note:

I have done installs both WITH and WITHOUT a network connection AND with and without WINDOWS UPDATE running. It has made no difference.

So I have no certainties as to whether or not Windows update is responsible for a bad driver or a bad install of an old driver.

Thanks for the replies, they do mean alot to me

~Grinmore
 
Windows 10 has all of the current drivers within it and you shouldn’t have to install chipset drivers or even video drivers

Also during the install just delete the partitions and then let the installer create the partitions it needs automatically you don’t need to do anything
 

grinmore

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Windows 10 has all of the current drivers within it and you shouldn’t have to install chipset drivers or even video drivers

Also during the install just delete the partitions and then let the installer create the partitions it needs automatically you don’t need to do anything
I figured Windows would supply its own drivers and I had hoped that it wouldn't manually start replacing drivers that it deemed obsolete but nonetheless I did several tests on installing manufacturer supplied drivers or not, just for the sake of testing. As per years of building PCs it's become a habit to install system critical drivers.

I sincerely doubt that manufacturer drivers specifically designed for a single piece of equipment are at fault. On the other hand I have serious doubts that the windows install and update process is at fault either.

Theres alot of uncertainty regarding this issue, that's why I cling so heavily to what little I do know as fact.

Thanks again for the replies, they help more than you know.

~Grinmore.
 

Ralston18

Titan
Moderator
"Restart with USB with win 10 install media on it selected as primary boot drive"; are you/have you been using the same USB drive every time?

That said, I was hopeful that @Mandark's suggestion to use Latency Monitor would lead to some clue.

And his suggestion has since reminded me about Process Explorer.

Reference:

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/process-explorer

You may need to download Process Explorer via Microsoft's website.
 

grinmore

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Oct 25, 2016
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"Restart with USB with win 10 install media on it selected as primary boot drive"; are you/have you been using the same USB drive every time?

That said, I was hopeful that @Mandark's suggestion to use Latency Monitor would lead to some clue.

And his suggestion has since reminded me about Process Explorer.

Reference:

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/process-explorer

You may need to download Process Explorer via Microsoft's website.
In response to your question, it has been the same USB drive for atleast a few months, a brand new 64gb SanDisk, have had no issues with it whatsoever.

I have yet to test Mandark's suggestion but I definitely will be doing so.

I have not heard of/am not familiar with "Process explorer" but it is definitely another tool I can add to my arsenal.

Sorry about the late response, I did fall out last night working on this issue.

Thank you for the continued help, it does mean alot.

~Grinmore.
 

stonecarver

Upstanding
Nov 18, 2019
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Just as a quick test to see if mouse lagging settles go to start type-----msconfig----
select start in------ Diagnostic startup----- restart and use computer for a little while and see if mouse still bugs out. No wont tell whats wrong but might get some idea if the mouse by its self is the issue
 

grinmore

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Oct 25, 2016
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Just as a quick test to see if mouse lagging settles go to start type-----msconfig----
select start in------ Diagnostic startup----- restart and use computer for a little while and see if mouse still bugs out. No wont tell whats wrong but might get some idea if the mouse by its self is the issue
Thanks for the reply, I have used safe mode and diagnostic start up before and was unable to come to any conclusion because my desktop usually runs at 144hz, since I am unable to test any program, game, monitoring software or graphics driver in safe mode. I can not reasonably determine whether or not the issue is present in Safe Mode.

I do believe it is present throughout all iterations of the PC

IMPORTANT DETAIL that was missed in my first post:

Making a new profile in Windows 10 has the same effect as reinstalling windows 10, the issue does come back after a couple hours or after a restart using that method as well.

Thank you for adding to the discussion, any and all thoughts and support here is appreciated.

~Grinmore
 

grinmore

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Testing with Process viewer and LatencyMon right now. Honestly nothing here seems to be out of place with "Current Measured interrupt to process latency" nothing over 50ms really.

Switching between Kernel latency timer showed that when the PC locked up the Kernel Latency reached almost 18,000ms which is absurd.

If anyone has some input on what to look for or what to monitor I would appreciate it, as I would not know the intricacies of the what the values would look like normally and what would indicated a red flag.

Thanks again for the help.

~Grinmore




 
Nov 4, 2019
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I have the same problem and nothing helped and I've changed literally everything.
I'm starting to believe it is problem with electricity so I'm going to buy Power Conditioner and see if that improves the performance.
To make things more confusing this problem sometimes randomly dissapears late at night which indicates that during the day there is some kind of blockage like network congestion or power overload.
Anyways people on this forum are not real experts and will not give u any help other than most basic solutions
 

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