Moved radiator and now my temperatures are fluctuating fast

boostin

Honorable
Apr 19, 2013
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I decided I wanted to move my radiator to a different part of the case today to improve airflow. Before moving it the CPU would read at 35-37 degrees at idle and stick there. Now it's jumping between 30-60 degrees and will sometimes fluctuate 10 degrees in the matter of a second(still at idle). CPU is at stock clock with stock bios settings. I know it's not from the radiator placement, so not sure what could have happened.
Picture for reference: http://imgur.com/a/z3xnh
 
Solution
1. The case I have is literally DESIGNED to exhaust through the front.

2. You completely missed the PSU point with your hubris. PSU fans draw air IN to the PSU from the case and OUT the back.

3. I'm not saying drawing air in through the top isn't a good way to do it, but your assertion that its the ONLY way is completely wrong. The way you are describing is a positive pressure setup, in a negative setup its all the opposite. Thats how mine is set up and many others, and they work great.

The OP dislodged his cooler block, period. Your theories about where he placed the fans causing such temperature fluctuations is utterly ridiculous.


That sounds like the block on the CPU got dislodged.
 
A top mounted rad...fans blowing up and out through the rad, works just fine.

A. Well of course that depends on a) how you define "fine" ... does fine mean "I'm willing to take a performance hit" ? or does it just mean "CPU won't die" ? and b) why does Corsair say the opposite in their installation instructions ?

http://www.corsair.com/~/media/corsair/download-files/manuals/49-000175_rev_ab_h100i_qsg_web.pdf

For the best cooling performance we recommend mounting the fans as air intake into the case.

B. In most cases with top mounted rads this is an bad decision. Take your typical case with:

(2) front fan mounts
(3) top fan mounts
(1) rear fan mount.

Let's assume a capable 3 x 120mm cooler on top (Swiftech H320 V2) and a rather crappy CLC like the H55 that doesn't cool as well as a Hyper 212.

Option 1 rad fans blowing out

(2) intakes fans in front will have their flow impeded by the intake air filter ... let's be generous and assume only a 20% reduction in air flow. So we have 1.6 fans worth or air getting thru those filters. Against that we have the 3 radiator fans + the rear fan blowing out.

That's 4 out and 1.6 in or 2.5 times the air going out as in w/ the Swiftech and 2 out 1.6 in with the H55. In both cases we have created a negative pressure situation.

That huge deficit of exhaust versus intakes w/ the Swiftech means that 2.4 fans worth of air is getting sucked in thru the path of least resistance which will usually be the rear case grilles and vented slot covers. Now you will probably be expecting me to talk about dust but that is the least of my concerns. My major concern is the temperature of the air coming in instead of cooler ambient air from the room, the intake air in this case is comprised primarily of GPU and PSU exhaust.

So here's what we accomplished....

The fresh air intake into the case has been preheated by say exhaust from a 250 watt GFX card and 650 watt PSU. It then picks up more heat from interior case components and by the time it hits the radiator its even hotter than it was when it got sucked into the case.

Option 2 rad fans blowing out

a) With either cooler, we have no more negative pressure situation so the extra air is being driven out of the case grilles pushing all that hot GFX card and PSU exhaust away from any possible entry points

b) The air going thru the radiator is substantially cooler because it hasn't been preheated by 250 + 650 watt components and it didn't absorb any additional heat from inside the case... instead it has cool ambient air which hasn't been pre-heated in any way.

C. We have tested this extensively with a fog machine and test system with 6 temperature sensors and 6 channel digital display, both accurate to 0.1C. The greater the difference between intake over exhaust the lower the temperature sensors read.... the fog machine shows varying levels of fog getting into the case depending on the ration of intakes to exhaust.

D. And yes, sucking dust into the case because of the rad fan exhaust adds to the heat problem as it has insulating properties.

E. Finally what's the point of investing in a better cooling method if you are going to diminish its performance by installing it in a manner that is a) contrary to manufacturer's instruction and b) will result in decreased performance ?

Yes, it is conceivable that you can create an installation scenario where it doesn't matter but the logic, temp results and visual observations of the fog machine say this won't be the case in the majority of instances.
 
And the installation manual for my Cryorig A80 shows a top mount, blowing out.
VeQqXva.png

So there's that.

2 schools of thought:
1. Front mount, blowing in. Brings in cool air through the rad. This is a good thing.
But it also blows the now warmed air directly into the case, making everything else work harder

2. Top mount, blowing out. Yes, this is taking already warmed air up and out through the rad. But given front fans bringing in cool air, and a rear fan blowing out the back, maybe not so much of a big deal.


Other articles say basically: Mount it where it makes the most sense in your case.
https://www.techspot.com/guides/1059-water-cooling-101/
https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1091961-a-tip-for-mounting-your-corsair-water-cooler/

NZXT shows it no more than a coupla degrees difference, top or front:
http://blog.nzxt.com/2016/01/best-case-fan-practices-for-the-new-nzxt-manta/

Seeing as I experienced a 12degree drop in temps across the board moving from a 212 PLUS to the top mount Cryorig, I'm a happy camper.


In any case, top mount or front mount is not the OP's issue. The temp should not fluctuate 10 degrees in a couple of seconds.
 
And the installation manual for my Cryorig A80 shows a top mount, blowing out
.

The Corsair manual uses the exact same image, but the instructions directly contradict the image


But it also blows the now warmed air directly into the case, making everything else work harder

1. How so ? what exactly is causing anything to work harder ?

2. I don't understand... the radiator's job is to cool a 90 watt CPU .. say 130 watts overclocked How is bringing 90 - 130 watts of heated air into the case a bigger concern than sucking back into the case the hot air exhaust from the 250 watt GPU and 650 watt PSU ?

As far as CPU temp fluctuations, this depends much on the loading. What load was being applied at the time ? I see this all the time with Intel XTU as loading is cyclic. But I am assuming here that this graph is at idle which makes it puzzling.

Another way that this can occur is with fan speed control. My chosen fan speed control is to turn rad fans off when the temps on the curve calls for less than say 25% of full speed... while typing this message, rad fans are off. Here Id try setting the fans to fixed speed at 100% and see if the cyclic temp think continues, if it doesn't, the mount can be ruled out.

As load increases, the ramp up slope I have chosen is very speed to that fans immediately ramp up, ... when the system cools, I use a very flat slope to ramp them down as the liquid will take time to cool down.

I suspect that a cable is experiencing momentary disconnection of that the software is simply not performing correctly.


 


A blanket statement like this is patently wrong. In fact there are many cases where this straight up doesn't work. My In-Win 509 is one of many examples. I have an intake from the bottom, and the radiator is in the middle with the fans blowing OUT, and then I have additional fans to exhaust that hot air. My entire system runs extremely cool with this setup not matter how hard I drive it.

Your reply to USAF is assuming the PSU will exhaust into the case (it doesn't), and you are always using a GPU with a cooler that exhausts in the case (not all do). But lets assume the GPU does, then dumping additional hot air over it through the radiator is a good idea? No.
 
My entire system runs extremely cool with this setup not matter how hard I drive it.

I can say that my Porsche is very fast ... but until it goes head to head with another vehicle, no reliable comparisons can be drawn. As your statement provides no reference or comparison to an alternate scenario, any conclusions drawn will remain mere supposition.

Your reply to USAF is assuming the PSU will exhaust into the case (it doesn't), .

What assumption ?

1. Math is not subject to interpretation. When you have 2.5 times more air blowing out then in, that air must get in somewhere. This can not be disputed and therefore is not an assumption

2. That air coming in will take the path of least resistance. This can not be disputed and therefore is not an assumption

3. In 99% of the cases, the largest, least restrictive openings are the rear case grilles and vented slot grilles which have the largest openings and thereby offer the least restriction to air flow. Few will attempt to argue this and doing so requires one to ignore basic facts

4. On what basis can you attest that exhaust air doesn't come into the case.... all this heat is being exhausted to the rear of the case. We know that the air intake, as has been established above will be the major source of intake air. Please explain how this intake will not contain exhaust air or point out these alternate openings that are will let air in. Try this ... go to a gas stove and turn on a burner ... place a desk fan on the adjoining burner back side to the lit burner. Hold a thermometer in front of the fan and measure the temperature with thermometer .. now turn on the fan ... and watch the reading rise.

5. How do you explain the fog testing which shows that when the fog is directed at the bottom / rear of the case with top fans as exhaust, the entire case is immediately filed with fog ? Reverse the fans and the fog is blown AWAY from the grille openings.

6. How do you explain the temp readings ? Why does interior case temps drop ? Why does coolant temperature drop ?

and you are always using a GPU with a cooler that exhausts in the case (not all do)

7. All GPUs, no exceptions, put heat into the case... unless you can find one that ignore the laws of thermodynamics. In a radiator, only 60% of the heat is exhausted thru the radiator. The rest is radiated out into the case from the rad shroud, tubing, backplates and other component surfaces. In a blower style cooler, not all the air is exhausted out if the case.

Much of it is radiated of the backplate or PCB. Some of it blows out into the case thru shroud openings... Put your fingers on your backplate or PCB and tell me it's cool to the touch ... if it isn't, then a portion of the heat is being radiated into the case. While your at it, explain how a 250 - 350 watt GFX card can be cooled by a CLC type cooler if all 350 watts are being exhausted thru the single 120mm radiator. Why possible reason could there by then for CPU coolers for 90 watt CPUs use 2 x 120mm if a single 120mm rad can handle 3650 watts ?

All GFX cards exhaust air outside the back of the case thru the vent openings. Blower style coolers exhaust more air out the rear but because they can't get enough air out via that opening, they will throttle unless power output is so low that little cooling is needed.

But lets assume the GPU does, then dumping additional hot air over it through the radiator is a good idea? No.

8. Thank you for proving my point. Using the rad fans as exhaust you are doing exactly that ... hot air coming off the GPU is getting out how ? It's going up thru the radiator after being preheated by radiated surfaces and escess blowby from the GPU. So you are cooling your 90 watt with air preheated by 1 or 2 GFX card worth of heat, a portion of which went out thru the card grille ... only to come right back in .... and the rest went out thru the radiator whose job was to cool the CPU.

9. With the intake fans on radiator, no GPU heat is getting anywhere near the radiator... It's all being forced out thru the rear grille ... the air enters the GPU thru the bottom of the card. Please explain how the air coming thru the rad from the top is going to go down all the way to the bottom of the case, get under the GPUs and than make a U turn and go back up thru the card. It doesn't happen, the fog just doesn't move that way.

10. What we clearly see with the fog machine is that air from bottom, side and front intake fans goes up thru the GPU(s) and out thru the rear case grilles never getting near the top rad....What we clearly see with the fog machine is that air from top, front and side intake fans goes down thru the radiator and out thru the rear case grilles, never getting anywhere near the GPUs. The air streams coming from the top and bottom meet in the middle and have only one way to get out of the case and that's thru the rear.

If you are willing to undertake the time and effort to perform comparative tests and to measure / record data for each scenario using appropriate equipment and test procedures, I would be very interested in seeing the results. More data always adds to understanding. But without that, I have seen nothing that contradicts the exhaustive testing that has already been performed. I don't doubt that a scenario can be created in which these suppositions might be true but none of the variations tested here support any alternative conclusions.




 
1. The case I have is literally DESIGNED to exhaust through the front.

2. You completely missed the PSU point with your hubris. PSU fans draw air IN to the PSU from the case and OUT the back.

3. I'm not saying drawing air in through the top isn't a good way to do it, but your assertion that its the ONLY way is completely wrong. The way you are describing is a positive pressure setup, in a negative setup its all the opposite. Thats how mine is set up and many others, and they work great.

The OP dislodged his cooler block, period. Your theories about where he placed the fans causing such temperature fluctuations is utterly ridiculous.
 
Solution
My A40 has been installed in both top orientation, and front, neither was vastly superior over the other. I have it in front, now, mostly due to not wanting to block the 5.25" bay on my Rosewill Neutron, in case I want to add a drive there, or some kind of other accessory that fits in that bay.
 
It was the cooler block. Last night I moved the radiator back to the original spot and fan orientation and it still had this same issue. Took off the cooler block and reapplied thermal paste and now it's back to a steady 35-37 degrees at idle. Moved radiator back to exhaust out the back and still at the 35-37 degrees.

Thanks everyone!
 


Glad it worked out. Figured it was something simple like that.
 


Good deal.