Question MSI B450M Mortar - Bricked, or is there still hope?

[invictus9407]

Hi folks,

This may be a long post so bear with me. I was out shopping the other day and had an impulse buy moment, so I purchased the Ryzen 5 5600x to upgrade from my Ryzen 5 3600. I had previously looked into this and knew this wasn't a massive upgrade, but I guess I was greedy and wanted to treat myself for new year since I had the budget. I will include my full specs further below.

When I got home, I proceeded to swap out my 3600 for the 5600x straight away. After swapping it out, the EZ Debug Light for the CPU came on, and that was the point when I realised I should have checked for my motherboard (MSI B450M Mortar) for compatibility and updated my BIOS and I felt like a complete idiot. After a bit of research, I found out on the MSI forums that the latest BIOS version of this board did indeed provide support for the 5600x, even though the BIOS was a beta version.

The B450M Mortar has a BIOS Flashback option, so I figured I can update the BIOS this way and everything would be fine. Initially, I tried this with all components installed, but I had issues updating the BIOS as I got three red flashes and nothing further, however after formatting and trying several USBs with MBR and FAT32 as recommended by a number of folks I eventually seemed to have the BIOS updated with flashing red lights for ~10 minutes, followed by the system restarting.

Despite this, the EZ Debug red light remained steady and indicated an issue with the CPU, and I could not get the system to POST whatsoever. So I tried several troubleshooting steps (which I will list below), however, I have nothing but a black screen and the EZ Debug light. What's even worse is that I have tried to pop back my 3600 which I had been using for 2+ years, and I encountered the same issue with that one. I was hoping I could post with the old CPU and try updating from within the BIOS, but nope. I highly doubt that I have damaged either of the CPUs, as I checked for bent/broken pins but everything looks good to me, and I was very careful in terms of preventing static discharge while working on the desktop.

At this stage, I am wondering if my motherboard is bricked and whether or not there is anything else I can try, or if I will need to get a new motherboard. The fact that neither CPU works as of now makes me think this is the case, but I'd love to hear your thoughts. Please let me know if anything isn't clear!

Specs

Mobo: MSI B450M Mortar
CPU: Ryzen 5 3600 (as mentioned in the post, I got the Ryzen 5 5600x to upgrade to)
GPU: MSI RTX 2070 Super Ventus OC 8GB GDDR6
RAM: HyperX Predator DDR4 3200MHz CL16 16GB Kit (2x8GB) - XMP Profile 1
PSU: Corsair RM 850 W 80+ Gold Fully Modular ATX PSU
Storage: WD SN750 1TB NVMe SSD with Heatsink

What I've Tried So Far

• Updating BIOS using MSI BIOS Flashback+, both with and without all components installed
• Trying 4 different USB drives, both old and new
• Using BOOTICE to format/repartition USBs after each BIOS Update attempt
• Clearing CMOS both by shorting JBAT1 and by removing the CMOS Battery, both before and after BIOS updates
• Ensuring USBs used for BIOS Flashback were all formatted as FAT32, MBR partitions, with all BIOS files renamed to MSI.ROM (extension changed) as instructed on the motherboard manual
• Ensuring both the old and new CPUs were seated correctly
• Ensuring there are no loose cables
• Trying to roll back BIOS to the older, stable version that I was using with my R5 3600
• Trying to revert to older BIOS versions (seemingly successful, but still didn't POST)
• Trying to boot with only 1 RAM stick
• Allowing the system to stay up and running for a bit in case the BIOS/RAM needs training to recognise change in components etc
• Checked both old and new CPU for broken/bent pins etc, both look pretty good to me and I highly doubt I'd damage both CPUs to such a degree that I can't post on either, but could be wrong?

As mentioned above I feel like I've tried pretty much everything and I feel like there are no options left but to get a new motherboard and assume this one is bricked, but I may be missing something, and I really hope someone can help. At this stage I wish I hadn't gone for the greedy impulse buy, and I'd be happy if I can just use my 3600 as I was before...

Thanks so much if you've read all of this!

 

[invictus9407]

Can't blame ya for wanting some fun.

If the over-flash can't help things I have to think it's something else. If only it worked with two dimm's on the same channel (A1 and A2) we'd have a little more to go on...and at least you'd get 16Gb memory even if not dual channel.

So I hadn't tried single channel before, but I've just now booted with A1 and A2, so although that isn't ideal I've got 16GB at least for now. I guess the issue is related to dual channel?

 

[drea.drechsler]

So I hadn't tried single channel before, but I've just now booted with A1 and A2, so although that isn't ideal I've got 16GB at least for now. I guess the issue is related to dual channel?

The issue is the B channel.

I think B channel in your motherboard is damaged. Either one of the contacts in the CPU socket or in one of the DIMM sockets (B1 or B2) is damaged. That's because neither CPU will work with a DIMM in B2 but do in A1 and A2.

Otherwise both CPU's would have to have a defective B channel in their IMC, very rare for one and the 3600 would have had to develop it 'suddenly'. Very, very long odds indeed.

Another possibility is that with all the removing and replacing of memory and CPU's and heatsinks and whatnot a circuit trace on the surface of the motherboard might have been damaged. They're quite tiny and closely packed between and around the CPU and DIMM sockets. It's very easy to do and not really notice it.

Using both A1 and A2 you get all 16 GB at least, but only have single channel memory access with a substantial loss in performance..

 

[invictus9407]

The issue is the B channel.

I think B channel in your motherboard is damaged. Either one of the contacts in the CPU socket or in one of the DIMM sockets (B1 or B2) is damaged. That's because neither CPU will work with a DIMM in B2 but do in A1 and A2.

Otherwise both CPU's would have to have a defective B channel in their IMC, very rare for one and the 3600 would have had to develop it 'suddenly'. Very, very long odds indeed.

Another possibility is that with all the removing and replacing of memory and CPU's and heatsinks and whatnot a circuit trace on the surface of the motherboard might have been damaged. They're quite tiny and closely packed between and around the CPU and DIMM sockets. It's very easy to do and not really notice it.

Using both A1 and A2 you get all 16 GB at least, but only have single channel memory access with a substantial loss in performance..

Great to have that info. Just to make a correction though, I was able to boot and run the system with 16GB on dual channels (A2 & B2) with the 3600 after booting with 1 stick in A2 and setting the XMP profile to 1 along with the voltage to 1.35v, then adding the second stick in B2. Doing the same with the 5600x however did not work. So the B2 channel did seem to work earlier today on the 3600, but it does seem a bit iffy as that was the only instance I could run dual channel. Do you think damage to some circuit trace might yield these types of results?

 

[drea.drechsler]

.... I was able to boot and run the system with 16GB on dual channels (A2 & B2) with the 3600 after booting with 1 stick in A2 and setting the XMP profile to 1 along with the voltage to 1.35v...

Ahhh...that's different! I guess I missed that. It's actually kind of typical behaviour to make you manually enter DIMM voltage to get a boot up. So it seems the 3600 works both A2 and B2...both channels functioning OK.

Now it sounds like the 5600X has a defective IMC....rare, but it happens. That since you've checked/rechecked/cleaned contacts of DIMM and CPU sockets.

Can you return the 5600X? I'd take that piece of info to them and ask for an exchange, assuming you still have that window open. It would be a lot faster that way than trying to work an RMA with AMD.

In the meantime...swap back to the 3600 and both sticks of memory in A2 and B2. Stay on the latest BIOS and you're ready for the replacement 5600X...just be sure to reset CMOS each time you change CPU.

 

[DRagor]

We have to take other factors into account, namely two C17 sticks that does not seem to work anymore. They suddenly go bad? Two sticks going bad at same time is rare, so maybe something damaged them. That something is of course either CPU or board. Again, rare, but not impossible in both cases. However if we assume that would be the case, then question arises why it only damaged C17 sticks and not C16 ones?

I suppose during all those flashing attempts you were mostly using C17 sticks and only rarely C16 ones. If so, plausible explanation would be that whatever was damaging RAM didn't have enough time to damage C16 (so we assume here the process of damaging them was not instantaneous). In that case we only need to determine if it was 5600 or motherboard doing that. That should be quite easy - if your 3600/C16 setup that runs stable now will crash in few days and the RAM will stop working we will know it was motherboard. Otherwise we have to blame 5600. In which case your sudden decision to buy it was even worse then you thought. (whoever read that far is a champ)

 

[invictus9407]

Ahhh...that's different! I guess I missed that. It's actually kind of typical behaviour to make you manually enter DIMM voltage to get a boot up. So it seems the 3600 works both A2 and B2...both channels functioning OK.

Now it sounds like the 5600X has a defective IMC....rare, but it happens. That since you've checked/rechecked/cleaned contacts of DIMM and CPU sockets.

Can you return the 5600X? I'd take that piece of info to them and ask for an exchange, assuming you still have that window open. It would be a lot faster that way than trying to work an RMA with AMD.

In the meantime...swap back to the 3600 and both sticks of memory in A2 and B2. Stay on the latest BIOS and you're ready for the replacement 5600X...just be sure to reset CMOS each time you change CPU.

Yeah so it seems like I should be able to return the 5600x, which I am most likely going to do. I just did some more testing on it to be sure, and I definitely can't post with A2 & B2 on it, and the newer RAM (3600 CL17) doesn't work at all. I'm reverting back to the 3600 right now and will test all RAM once more with it.

We have to take other factors into account, namely two C17 sticks that does not seem to work anymore. They suddenly go bad? Two sticks going bad at same time is rare, so maybe something damaged them. That something is of course either CPU or board. Again, rare, but not impossible in both cases. However if we assume that would be the case, then question arises why it only damaged C17 sticks and not C16 ones?

I suppose during all those flashing attempts you were mostly using C17 sticks and only rarely C16 ones. If so, plausible explanation would be that whatever was damaging RAM didn't have enough time to damage C16 (so we assume here the process of damaging them was not instantaneous). In that case we only need to determine if it was 5600 or motherboard doing that. That should be quite easy - if your 3600/C16 setup that runs stable now will crash in few days and the RAM will stop working we will know it was motherboard. Otherwise we have to blame 5600. In which case your sudden decision to buy it was even worse then you thought. (whoever read that far is a champ)

This is 100% what I'm surprised by as well. The CL17 sticks don't seem to work at all regardless of which CPU I have installed, and on the 5600x the B channel doesn't work with the CL16 either, only A1 and A2. So it seems like I am facing 2 issues at once based on what you folks are saying right, i.e. the newer CL17 RAM appears to have been damaged and also the new CPU (5600x) seems to potentially have an IMC issue.

I will for one last time test all RAM sticks with the 3600, but assuming its only the 3200 CL16 (old) RAM that works, I'll run that and see if it remains stable, meanwhile returning the 5600x hopefully.

 

[drea.drechsler]

...The CL17 sticks don't seem to work at all regardless of which CPU I have installed, ...

The CL17 sticks certainly are an oddball and outlier. That's where you try to keep things simple and use what does work for now, as you are. Once you've got your system solidly running on the sticks that DO work then you might try swapping back to the CL17 again (be certain to reset CMOS, of course). Things can be funny, you never can tell they might just start working.

But before trying that, I'd exchange the CPU and get a 5600X set up and running on the RAM you know does work now on the 3600. One thing at a time: get the 3600 and RAM working well, upgrade the processor (you're on the right BIOS for that now!) then the memory.

 

[invictus9407]

The CL17 sticks certainly are an oddball and outlier. That's where you try to keep things simple and use what does work for now, as you are. Once you've got your system solidly running on the sticks that DO work then you might try swapping back to the CL17 again (be certain to reset CMOS, of course). Things can be funny, you never can tell they might just start working.

But before trying that, I'd exchange the CPU and get a 5600X set up and running on the RAM you know does work now on the 3600. One thing at a time: get the 3600 and RAM working well, upgrade the processor (you're on the right BIOS for that now!) then the memory.

Ok so, I cleared CMOS, popped the 3600 CPU back on and tried the 3600 CL17 RAM with 1 stick - can confirm these do not seem to work under any circumstances.

The CL16 3200 RAM however is working in the dual channel setup. So A2 and B2 work for the 3600 CPU with CL16 RAM, only A1 and A2 work of the CL16 work with the 5600x, and the CL17 doesn't work in any of the combinations possible with either CPU.

I think I will return the 5600x tomorrow, and if the shop doesn't accept it then I'll RMA. In terms of the 3200 CL16 RAM that I currently have running in dual channel, as I don't know much about RAM timings etc, I am just wondering if there is much difference from a gaming perspective between this and the 3600 CL17 that I was using before trying to upgrade the CPU. And if so, do you think it's worth trying to OC the 3200 CL16 RAM / do you have any tips on that front?

Not sure if it's a good time to try OC'ing RAM right now, but if this system runs stable for several days and there does not appear to be an issue with the MOBO, I might try and OC if you think it's worth it. If the RAM isn't much of a downgrade from the 3600 CL17 that I had, I can of course keep it as it is, but I game quite competitively so would like to make the most of my system.

 

[drea.drechsler]

..I am just wondering if there is much difference from a gaming perspective between this and the 3600 CL17 ..

From a gaming perspective, it depends entirely on your game. Some games are memory dependent, some aren't. I couldn't say.

The timing difference is mainly because one is "looser" for the higher clock speed it operates at.

But those timings or clocks are irrelevant since until you set an XMP mode ALL DDR4 memory should train and boot up at default DDR4 clocks...usually 2133, sometimes 2400. That's super easy for modern memory, and also using super loose timings. It's done to make sure it boots reliably so if it's not something's amiss.

It could be defective too...it could be the defect in the 5600X' IMC injected a defect into the RAM, but that's a guess.

EDIT: when you game competitively...is that in e-sports type games? also called FPS games? the game type that looks for extreme high FPS. If so, many of those games are latency dependent vs. throughput dependent. That means it's often better for them when you keep memory speed lower but try to find the lowest timings for lowest latency. It's not a simple process but definitely not worth starting until you get the final memory and processor combo in there. It also means getting the right memory: something with Samsung B-die is the best. I think you can get that with GSkill Trident Z kits. Also Micron E-die but I'm not so certain...nor what kits they come in.

 

[DRagor]

Definitely RMA the C17. What you got to lose - few $ shipping cost? And you can win a set of working RAM. However I would wait with that until you know how RMA of 5600 went as this might shed some light on what exactly happened.

 

[invictus9407]

From a gaming perspective, it depends entirely on your game. Some games are memory dependent, some aren't. I couldn't say.

The timing difference is mainly because one is "looser" for the higher clock speed it operates at.

But those timings or clocks are irrelevant since until you set an XMP mode ALL DDR4 memory should train and boot up at default DDR4 clocks...usually 2133, sometimes 2400. That's super easy for modern memory, and also using super loose timings. It's done to make sure it boots reliably so if it's not something's amiss.

It could be defective too...it could be the defect in the 5600X' IMC injected a defect into the RAM, but that's a guess.

EDIT: when you game competitively...is that in e-sports type games? also called FPS games? the game type that looks for extreme high FPS. If so, many of those games are latency dependent vs. throughput dependent. That means it's often better for them when you keep memory speed lower but try to find the lowest timings for lowest latency. It's not a simple process but definitely not worth starting until you get the final memory and processor combo in there. It also means getting the right memory: something with Samsung B-die is the best. I think you can get that with GSkill Trident Z kits. Also Micron E-die but I'm not so certain...nor what kits they come in.

Sorry for the late reply. So yeah, I'm mostly playing FPS games, especially Warzone at the moment. I don't believe COD is super RAM dependent but could be wrong. I'll do a bit more research and look into the GSkills too.

Definitely RMA the C17. What you got to lose - few $ shipping cost? And you can win a set of working RAM. However I would wait with that until you know how RMA of 5600 went as this might shed some light on what exactly happened.

Good call! I am in touch with HyperX right now, looks like they will indeed be sending me replacements. I also found a shop relatively close to me which may be able to test both the RAM and CPU to see if the issues can be replicated on a different board. I'll report back once I know more. Thanks again folks for all the help.

 

[drea.drechsler]

... I also found a shop relatively close to me which may be able to test both the RAM and CPU to see if the issues can be replicated on a different board. ...

That's a good idea. Being able to swap in and out known-good components is the best, if not only, way to test outside of a well equipped engineering lab.

 

[invictus9407]

I know it's been a while, but I just wanted to give a quick update on how things went in the end. Sadly I was not able to get the RAM and CPU tested on a different board, however I was able to return the 5600x CPU for a full refund, and I got an RMA replacement of the RAM sticks that weren't working. I can confirm that the replacement RAM works on A2 and B2, so it seems like there definitely was an issue with the RAM. What was strange though was that I still had issues with the 5600x where I could not run dual channel. I guess there was also an issue with the IMC on the CPU, but I guess we can't definitively say that.

Either way, thanks again for all the help!

 

[drea.drechsler]

I know it's been a while, but I just wanted to give a quick update on how things went in the end. Sadly I was not able to get the RAM and CPU tested on a different board, however I was able to return the 5600x CPU for a full refund, and I got an RMA replacement of the RAM sticks that weren't working. I can confirm that the replacement RAM works on A2 and B2, so it seems like there definitely was an issue with the RAM. What was strange though was that I still had issues with the 5600x where I could not run dual channel. I guess there was also an issue with the IMC on the CPU, but I guess we can't definitively say that.

Either way, thanks again for all the help!

So you have it working all ok? great!

I must say it's just so highly unlikely for both a CPU and RAM to have unrelated defects at the same time. I don't know how it could happen but something in one must have caused the other to go bad. That's the best way to explain it so far at least.

At least you're up and running OK now.👍