MSI GTX 970 stability issues

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Webghost

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Dec 11, 2014
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Hello,
I hope you guys are able to give me some ideas what might be wrong, as I find the whole situation fairly confusing. I've updated the description in case it helps to get some replies.

SETUP:
Mother board: ASUS P8Z68-V/GEN3
PSU: Thermaltake Thoughpower 750 W (modular)
Mem: 8 Gig memory
3dcard: MSI GTX 970
Hard drives: 2x Samsung SSD and one normal 1TB Harddrive
Other devices:
- Sound Blaster X-Fi Elite Pro
- various USB devices (but the problem happens without any of them connected, so I leave them out of this for now)

***

I upgraded my graphic card from ASUS 560 TI to MSI GTX 970 Gaming 4G.

Games in general seem to have random (?) and less random crashes that just boots up whole computer. They can happen at load screen, but in some games at specific cutscene spots.

As a second side effect of installing MSI GTX 970, Sound Blaster X-Fi Elite Pro cannot be found in device manager any more and can't be used. When I switched back the old card, it returned. I've tried clean Geforce driver install with DDU, but no luck. It stays missing!

I've been discussing this on another forum too,but additional thoughts would be great. Currently I am leaning towards PSU problem, but I am puzzled as 750W should be plenty... but perhaps old Thoughpower is just getting old and doesn't do what new card wants? I am not sure does it explain Soundblaster too somehow? Wouldn't want to buy PSU just to note nothing changed... but I am getting fairly desperate.

Any thoughts are welcome! What would be the smartest thing to continue with? I hope I provided enough details for you guys.
 
Solution
ihog
Yeah, Thermaltake wasn't the best PSU manufacturer, especially then. And personally, I hate when PSU split the 12V; I would much rather have a strong, single 12V rail.

So I guess with two 12V connected it gives around 30 which is at least on the edge?
Click to expand...

The split of the 12V rail isn't necessarily between each PCIe power connector.

And if it is 5 years old so, I guess these numbers might have suffered? Am I making sense?
Click to expand...

Yes, PSU degradation is a known phenomenon.

So I guess that is my problem, guaranteed?
Click to expand...

Not necessarily, but it's likely the cause of the issue, and you would want to upgrade your PSU, even if you weren't having problems.

Just so I am making right choice: "xfx 850w black edition 80+ gold" would...
Click to expand...
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Graphic card's memory and core settings are with some of overclocking software or is it in BIOS? What would it indicate if such worked?

Sorry for possibly stupid question, I always leave these as defaults as I presume everything should work so :)
 
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Sorry for multiple posts, but I've done some research on my current PSU and new ones, I think the reason is here. However, would be great if someone could verify.

A GeForce GTX 970 - needs 28 amps on the 12v + rail and a 500 watt power supply with 1 - 6 pin and 1 - 8 pin PCIE power connection.

Thoughpower has: Max load of 18A for 12V on connector (If you summ two power connectors connected I guess that is 32 together, but I do not think it works that way?)

XFX for instance has 70A on 12V?

So does this explain the whole issue? My current PSU doesnt supply enough amperage, thus the problem in some games (even if 2d works fine). Or am I totally in the lost?
 
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I have older model, I didnt know they reused the name for newer model:
Mine PIN is W0116RE I can't find it on the official site.

I found one review:
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=7

I do not think I bought it 2006... but I remember it was latest back then. Wow time flies.

So I guess that is my problem, guaranteed? I was so fixed on Watt number...

EDIT: The review says total combined output should not exceed 60 (and there is 4 of 12V outputs). So I guess with two 12V connected it gives around 30 which is at least on the edge? At least modern PSU:s are not at the edge like this? And if it is 5 years old so, I guess these numbers might have suffered? Am I making sense?


Just so I am making right choice: "xfx 850w black edition 80+ gold" would fix it right? It seems to be few years old, but I presume that is still excellent pick.. one online retailer close seems to have them. Better than Corsair CS750M, 80 PLUS Gold that seems to be at local store?




 
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If it is just that, it would be pretty disastrous as I would have to get new motherboard? 🙁 It is a rather big thing to change... I mean after PSU it would be either that or faulty card, I guess.

Do you have any good way to make sure?

I presume I cannot use ASUS P8Z68-V/GEN3 PRO's BIOS update, as it has gotten update... but non pro hasn't.

P8Z68-V/GEN3 (my MOBO)
http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/P8Z68VGEN3/HelpDesk_Download/

P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3 (updated last month)
http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/P8Z68V_PROGEN3/HelpDesk_Download/
 
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Yeah, Thermaltake wasn't the best PSU manufacturer, especially then. And personally, I hate when PSU split the 12V; I would much rather have a strong, single 12V rail.

So I guess with two 12V connected it gives around 30 which is at least on the edge?
Click to expand...

The split of the 12V rail isn't necessarily between each PCIe power connector.

And if it is 5 years old so, I guess these numbers might have suffered? Am I making sense?
Click to expand...

Yes, PSU degradation is a known phenomenon.

So I guess that is my problem, guaranteed?
Click to expand...

Not necessarily, but it's likely the cause of the issue, and you would want to upgrade your PSU, even if you weren't having problems.

Just so I am making right choice: "xfx 850w black edition 80+ gold" would fix it right?
Click to expand...

Can you please give a link to the exact one you're planning on purchasing so that I can make sure I'm looking at the right one?

junkeymonkey said:
may just be a compatibility issue with older chipsets and no bios updates for the newer cards for the boards
Click to expand...

I highly doubt that is the issue, but updating the bios to the latest revision would be wise for Webghost to do.
 
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Solution
I highly doubt that is the issue, but updating the bios to the latest revision would be wise for Webghost to do.

ok if you say so ..

http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2388720/computer-instantly-shuts-randomly-installation-gtx-970.html

http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2403049/black-screen-gigabyte-gtx-970-gaming.html

if the boards manufacture don't give you a bios that will support the newer cards they may not work some do right out of the box some do not video cards are not as plug and play as it once was this is why you now get ''vbios'' support with a motherboards bios update these days


but all I can do is state whart I'm seeing and giving you something to look at or in to
 
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The split of the 12V rail isn't necessarily between each PCIe power connector.
Click to expand...

I understood from the review it was, of course reviews can be wrong too..and yes still would be on the edge with 30A even (if it works that way).

I am Finnish, so this is a Finnish link but I think you can get the details:
http://www.jimms.fi/tuote/P1-850B-BEFX

I presume 12V1 / 70A means PCI-E has 70A to them.

Possible BIOS thing worries me however, with the soundcard still being not present while GTX970 is inside could be part of that, I guess.
 
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I'm half Finnish! Though I don't speak or write very well, or at all, really.

Yes, that PSU should be good.

Possible BIOS thing worries me however, with the soundcard still being not present while GTX970 is inside could be part of that, I guess.
Click to expand...

What do you mean?

to be honest .. all I see about the 970 card makes me glad I did not jump right on one and decided to hold back and wait and see ...
Click to expand...

That I can certainly agree with.
 
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What I can say is, my problem is not like the first one. However second post is similar, however in that case there is no resolution is it PSU problem (which it could be too?). If I understand correctly.

Do you think my PSU is non-issue? I would go with PSU replacement, unless there is reason to believe that my Thermaltake is okey afterall. I mean doesn't it look like a possible reason for problems to you too?

The motherboard has "full PCIe 3.0 support", and I am at latest released BIOS (2012). However, motherboard Pro version has 2014 update from last month, that they have not given for the non-pro board for some reason. Which is strange as difference between normal and PRO is minimal as far as I can see. I guess I can ask ASUS about it, certainly wont hurt even if it doesn't turn out to be my issue.
 
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Thank you ihog! Good to know it would be a right choice for PSU! :)

Sound card thing is what I mentioned in the original post:

"As a second side effect of installing MSI GTX 970, Sound Blaster X-Fi Elite Pro cannot be found in device manager any more and can't be used. When I switched back the old card, it returned. I've tried clean Geforce driver install with DDU, but no luck. It stays missing!"

I can live with internal soundcard from Mother Board for time being, but it is still strange. I've never had anything like it that card in other slot affects the other. They shouldn't even be sharing IRQ or anything if I read manual correctly.

When I did BIOS update few days ago, it seemed it helped with a game, but other games not so much. So I do not really know if it did anything or was newly found stability in one game just luck... or perhaps they adjusted power usage with BIOS update but it still isn't enough for most games because my PSU is insufficient? Possible I guess?

About jumping with 970. I read about sound issues at some cards, but nothing like this. I can say my card is super quiet even with case open and even while playing (Far Cry 3, Dragon Age Inquisition) , so the high sounds or such at least arent the issue so far. Would be great to get to play game more however... :) It felt it made most sense with price to jump from 560 TI as really needed a better card. I hope I can still enjoy the card at some point :)





 
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ya, well I guess funny thing is, I don't see this with the 980 card [so far ]

thing is some folks don't get why the 970 is soo much cheaper then the 980 and really its not hard to understand

http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2393837/gtx-970-gtx-980.html

http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2395249/gtx-970-gtx-980.html
maybe down to you get what you pay for [and sometimes less]

but , you see where asus may of give support to one board over others,, its easier for you to buy new stuff then it is for them to support the old ..

don't know I do hope you get it going to enjoy

good luck
 
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I ordered a new PSU, I will keep you guys updated what happens.

However, any ideas/comments are still welcome... the vanishing Sound Blaster is especially odd one still.
 
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I was looking around to see if I could find something to help but not so much just things like this

Anandtech gtx 980/970 review
Meanwhile GTX 970 should fare similarly as well, however as our sample is having compatibility issues that we haven’t been able to resolve in time, that is a discussion we will need to have another day.

seems odd that they found this with there card.. I don't know these 970 cards just got too much going issue wise to me [opinion]

I wish I did not have all this to say on it sorry I'm no better help
 
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Thanks for looking!

While waiting for PSU, but I did also contact ASUS.

They say it is unlikely that they update the BIOS (no idea why PRO board was), and state they have no solid data yet on 970 cards. However he says the cards "seems" to be exception in rule that any card works on any mother board. So they say its possible its due to the BIOS, but nothing beyond it. Not promising, but who knows. There seem to be cases where PSU update has done the job too...

However as this point we can only speculate: If this is indeed BIOS thing, one thing I am puzzled about. There is not posts about mother board BIOS issues with this ASUS brand. I thought this fairly popular one, and I really bought it only a bit over 2 years ago. I can't be the only one in the "internets" with this Motherboard and happen to have upgraded to 970 or 980! Oh well, I hope I am not just the first 😛
 
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its easier for you to buy new than them supporting there old [??]

funny as I see is the 980 don't seem to have this that I have found just the 970 and I think its due to what I try to explain here on them
http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2426952/pull-trigger-gtx980-wait.html

bottom line is the 980 is the true card the 970 is just to use up parts the best they can and sell them [opinion]

also I feel they were rush out to make x-mas sales before they were fully ready to do so ????
 
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I got my PSU today, and it seems to have solved the issue of stability. I have been gaming around 5 hours without any issues. I was not able to do that with old PSU.

XFX seems like really fine work too, certainly more silent than Thermaltake was, not that it was loud by any means. GTX 970 worked flawlessly so far, it is also very quiet.

Also as a slight side effect, the machine boots up faster too... for some reason with old power it waiting 5 seconds before ASUS screen and loading Windows. So it seems there definitely was some sort of power shortage. I did not think anything of it, until I saw faster boot.

Sound blaster card is still in limbo, but its looking good so far! Perhaps Soundblaster issues is best for another post as its separate thing.

I will observe the system for few days, but it is looking VERY promising. I want to thank everyone already for the input, but I will return in to this in few days to confirm how it has been.
 
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I think ihog was in the right track here.

While I considered my ThermalTake a good PSU, I guess it wasn't up to the task of modern graphics card. Perhaps it was the Amps? One would think that Watts had not deteriorated that much over the years that they would be an issue, but I guess it could be possible too? We won't know exact reason, but it is clear PSU change helped. The Sound Blaster vanishing and having a powerful PSU really made it hard to say for certain what to do, just buying a new PSU and experimenting was really the only logical step. The Sound Blaster is still a mystery, but I continue it in another post maybe, as this is so much involved in system stability and GTX 970.

I hope this will help to solve any similar issue someone might have with a new card and older PSU.

Thanks for everyone's help!
 
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