MSI Or Asus? [IMPORTANT]

[Mihai Ilie]

Hello everyone!

I know you've seen this kind of post a lot on the forums, I did too...and I read almost all of them (if not all of them) Still, I am a little bit confused.

I want to purchase (in about a week from now) a gtx 970. The problem is..I am not sure which one. Initially I thought about asus but as it is not as powerful as the others I thought about the Gigabyte G1 one. It turns out it doesn't fit in my case (NZXT 210 Elite)

So now it comes down to this:

1)msi or asus? I would like to also see answers from guys that own these cards. If you say msi is better...or asus is better...please give some reasons so this post might help others aswell when they search for facts about those gpu.

Also..besides this..I have one more question:

2)Will a backplate make a difference besides the visual one?

I am waiting for as many answers as possible

Best regards!

 

[TheMentalist]

Take a look at this: http://www.overclock.net/t/1516121/gtx-970-comparison-strix-vs-msi-gaming-vs-gigabyte-g1
Backplates are more for rigidity and aesthetics really.

 

[SU11YBEAR]

I generally avoid Asus cards because they use non-reference PCB so if you want to watercool you need a non-standard block, however this has no bearing on this case since MSI is a non-standard PCB as well. Here is an article on these cards http://techreport.com/review/27203/geforce-gtx-970-cards-from-msi-and-asus-reviewed
Assuming you are talking about the Strix and not the over Asus options ...
1) MSI is better if same price, see article
2) Backplates add some structural support to cards, more commonly an issue with watercooling but heavy aftermarket coolers / board coolers can cause the PCB to warp over time, generally there is not much of a performance difference with/without backplate

 

[Alan Caldwell]

ASUS for silent operation and MSI for slightly better performance.

ASUS review:
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/asus_geforce_gtx_970_strix_review,1.html
MSI review:
http://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/msi-geforce-gtx-970-gaming-review,1.html

 

[tambeshakunt]

Having owned both MSI and ASUS products (not the 970 though) I can give you my viewpoint:

- Both are very very good quality brands but sometimes, ASUS cards have the little extra when it comes to solid components and reliability.

- ASUS and MSI both have very good cooling systems. MSI have the twin Frozer and ASUS have Direct CU. Again, both are very quiet and efficient.

- Msi is usually cheaper compared to ASUS and that is because ASUS does have the little better quality and the brand name since imo they are the only n manufacturers of the highest end boards ( their ROG range ) and so appear as a 'premium' brand.

- Both coolers allow for good overclocking.

- the backplate is for visuals, better ESD, dust and damage protection, potentially better rigidity and also improves heat dissipation but this is negligible. Most important is visuals.

Both MSI and ASUS have very good 970s and I would decide based on the price difference. If there is a small difference, go for ASUS but if there is a huge gap such as £30+ then MSI is a very good choice.

 

[Farapon]

Just make a cut so that it fits.

 

[JackNaylorPE]

This is easy .... MSI. Asus ruled the GFX card market (aside from elite cards like the Lightning and Classified) thru the 600 series..... they've slipped. Asus got a 10.0 for the 670 TOP from Techpowerup .... it was MSI however who took top honors with a 9.9 on the 780 Ti. (also top rating on the 780).....Asus came in last. Ya can't say because the Asus 670 TOP was better than MSI's offering, then it must follow that the Asus 970 is better than the MSI 970.

Asus has undertaken some cost cutting measures in the last 2 generations actually reducing the quality of some of the componentry, and skimping a bit on some of the PCB cooling efforts. OTOH, MSI has upped their game. This is reflected in the reviews, and the performance of the cards.

If ya look at the 770, 780, 780 Ti, 9xx series, out of the big 4, Asus cards are always the lowest clocked cards. Under water, I have been able to OC the Asus and MSI cards equally, but on air, the MSI's match the water cooled MSI and Asus cards .... I still find the water cooling worthwhile for noise reduction.... an speaking of noise.... MSI has held a substantial lead here for a while now.

While most times this decision is made simply because of brand loyalty, generally the result of reliance on outdated comparisons ..... there's two reasons why I now pick MSI over Asus.

1. Performance - Look at the reviews....I have yet to read a review where the MSI didn't break 1500 MHz overclocked. The Asus 970 just doesn't.

2. Compare the construction (components used, PCB cooling) to see the physical differences between the cards. There's a reason that the MSI and Gigabyte routinely OC to 1500 - 1600 and the others don't.

You will oft see it posted that "Asus has better quality" .... better said "They had better quality". The quality of the componentry used in past years is simply not there today as is evidenced in detailed tear-down reviews like bit-tech's below

Asus
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2014/09/19/nvidia-geforce-gtx-970-review/2

The base clock speed comes in at the lowest of all three: 1,114MHz, a 6 percent jump over reference that gives the card a boost clock of 1,253MHz. ....

ASUS has also trimmed the standard 2 x 6-pin PCI-E power connections down to a single 8-pin one, which has an LED to tell you when your cable is correctly connected and working. This design makes cable management easier, but there's a chance it could negatively impact the card's overclocking potential.

Employed to keep things cool is the DirectCU II system, featuring three U-shaped, nickel-plated copper heat pipes, one of which is a larger 10mm model. The full width of all three heat pipes make direct contact with the GPU for maximum heat transfer.

Two 92mm downdraft fans operate on top of the heatsink. As the card's shroud does not keep things sealed, most of the resultant hot air will be exhausted into your chassis, so be sure of adequate ventilation. Like the MSI card, the two fans also have the ability to operate semi-passively, and won't spin up until the GPU reaches about 65°C. This is enough of a threshold to enable users to play less demanding games entirely passively. Aside from the obvious noise benefits, this will also increase the lifespan of the card as well as its power efficiency.

On its custom PCB, ASUS places all eight Samsung memory chips on the front side, meaning that the backplate does not directly cool any of them. In fact, the chips are left without any contact plate or heatsink touching them, relying solely on air from the fans to cool them.

We also find a 6-phase power delivery system for the GPU, a 50 percent upgrade from stock specifications. It also uses ASUS's DIGI+ VRM controller for precise, digital voltages, as well as high quality Super Alloy Power components for buzz-free choke operation, longer capacitor lifespan and MOSFETs with a 30 percent higher voltage threshold than standard. Sadly, the memory has not been granted the same treatment. It is fed by a single phase found at the other side of the PCB, and this one does not use any special components.

The MOSFETs of the DIGI+ power phases are cooled by a small heatsink, but the VRM controller and the MOSFETs for the memory power phase are left, like the memory chips, to fend for themselves without direct cooling.

MSI
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2014/09/19/nvidia-geforce-gtx-970-review/4

..... this card is fed by a 6-pin/8-pin combination rather than the default dual 6-pin set-up. Hopefully this additional power brings about higher stable overclocks.

The card has no backplate, leaving four of its eight memory chips exposed on the rear side. The dragon and MSI logos on the side just above the pair of SLI connectors are backlit by white LEDs. There is no way to disable this other than by unscrewing the cooler and disconnecting the cable.

The Twin Frozr V cooling solution is the latest in the series. The GPU is cooled by a massive nickel-plated copper baseplate, to which the four heat pipes (two 8mm, two 6mm, also nickel-plated) are soldered to. This design ensure heat is transferred through all the pipes effectively, unlike in the EVGA solution where one of the pipes barely connects with the GPU. One heat pipe is S-shaped, while the remaining three are U-shaped, a design MSI refers to as SuperSU and claims helps to improve heat dissipation throughout the aluminium fins.

Two 100mm downdraft Torx fans provide airflow, with MSI boasting their new fan design offers 19 percent better airflow and five percent less noise (at 100 percent fan speed). The fan blades alternate between traditional blades that direct airflow to the heatsink, and dispersion blades with a small ridge in them that draw in more air and push it into the path of the normal blades blades, essentially accelerating the airflow. The fans are also wider than the fin stack, ensuring airflow covers the whole card and more.

Like the ASUS card, the GTX 970 Gaming 4G features a semi-passive mode, which it calls Zero Frozr. It's something MSI first brought to the market in 2008 (it's keen to clarify that it hasn't copied the ASUS Strix cards here). The temperature cut-off points are similar to the ASUS card – between 60 and 65°C, the fans will spin up; once the GPU drops to about 50°C, they're no longer needed. This carries benefits for noise production, efficiency and fan lifespan.

Another feature is called Hybrid Frozr, and this refers to the ability to control both fans independently. Enabling this functionality is a six-pin fan header on the PCB. In automatic mode, one fan is controlled by the GPU temperature while the other is controlled by temeprature measurement ICs dotted around the PCB. MSI claims it can result in a 1.9dB(A) noise reduction, and also offers users the ability to control the two fans independently using its Gaming App.

The power delivery is the best of any here; it's a 6+2 design. Further, MSI uses its own improved components for both the GPU and the memory power phases. The components are referred to as Military Class 4 since they meet MIL-STD-810G regulations. Specifically, we find Hi-c CAP and Solid CAP type capacitors and Super Ferrite Chokes, which are designed to provide higher stability, lifespan and efficiency.

A miniature heatsink takes care of cooling the main GPU MOSFETs near the rear I/O, while a metal contact plate equipped with thermal pads is used to cool three of the four front PCB memory chips as well as the remaining power circuitry including the memory MOSFETs and the VR controllers.

Right now, the choice is between the Gigabyte and MSI .... EVGA and Asus just don't measure up this time.

 

[TheMentalist]

If ASUS just had released a standard DirectCu II edition of the 970...

 

[Mihai Ilie]

Hey guys..I can not quote from mobile for some reason. First of all, thanks a lot for your answers, you are awesome.

The card won't be seen so visuals aren't important for me. Still...i read somewhere that the backplate would help a card not to sag. Is there a chance that the msi will sag? I want something that will last me for quite some time. Also...what about the msi's coil whine? So far I am more towards the msi card.

 

[JackNaylorPE]

Backplates can provide several advantages:

1. Aesthetics .... not important in your case.

2. Dust Protection .... site and build specific ... is dust a problem at your location and do you have air filters on inlets ? OTOH hand, some card's backpates have so many holes that they function as dust collectors requiring you to disassemble to get dust out.

3. Heat Transfer .... if the backplate is actually in contact with heat generating components, it can help radiate heat over a much larger surface area .... however as pointed out on the Asus card in the above review, the lack of thermal transfer material between the component and the back plate kills any advantage from a backplate.

4. Rigidity ... right up thru the 700 series we saw power and thermal requirements growing and growing thereby requiring larger (and heavier) heat sinks \. The additional weight resulted in sag which if not damaging to the card was aesthetically unpleasant. Now we have the 970 which OC'd draws about half the power of it's 7xx series equivalent. As a result, the coolers do not need to be as massive thereby eliminating the necessity to increase card rigidity.

Evert time I have had a box come in with coil whine, I have eliminated it with a PSU swap. That is not to say every instance of coil whine is PSU generated; it's just more common when lower end PSUs are used. It occurs when a resonance frequency occurs and the coil actually vibrates and creates the sound..... a web search will show you some solutions whereby a thermal pad or glue gun" was used to make it go away. While often brought out as an argument against a particular brand, the poster generally fails to note that visiting the forums of the competing brand are also replete with as many posts on the subject.

http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?52609-Strix-GTX-970-coil-whine
http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2358051/asus-strix-gtx-970-coil-whine-mordor-tf2.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2324838/coil-whine-asus-strix-970.html
http://vip.asus.com/forum/view.aspx?board_id=9&model=STRIX-GTX970-DC2OC-4GD5&id=20141119193248059&page=1&SLanguage=en-us
http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/222740-noisy-asus-970-strix-coil-whine/

You can insert any GFX vendor's name into a web search and get similar results.

 

[Mihai Ilie]

Hey Jack, thanks for all your help so far!
I'll probably have no problems with dust as I keep my room clean all the time. Also..if it comes with coil whine, I can get it back to the store, right?

So..as a conclusion you reccomend msi because it is more powerful over the asus card and because it is a good brand overall with a good build quality?

Is this card far behind the G1, or you consider it better overall? I really do not think I can fit a G1 in my nzxt 210 anyway...as the drive cage cannot be removed. And about my psu..it's an antec vp700w. Never used before...actually none of my parts were used before. I didn't even get them out of the box and I won't until I also get the GPU.

Best regards!

 

[JackNaylorPE]

I'm recommending the MSI 970 over the Asus 970 .... not MSI over Asus in general....Logos don't have an effect on quality and performance. Each manufacturer comes up with a plan to hit each market niche and make money doing it. Sometimes they figure, they can rely on laurels gained from previous products in a line and maybe cut a few corners and make it bit more money .... sometimes they figure they gotta up their game to be competitive, making less money per sale but gaining market share. Being an educated consumer is your path to getting the most for your money.

With Motherboards for example I'll take the $180 MSI GD65 over the $200 Asus Hero as it's physically a better board for less money (ridiculously priced at $125 last week), but at $250+ range, I'd take the Asus Maximus VII Formula over anything MSI has in its price range.

The MSI uses better componentry.
The MSI provides additional cooling capacity for VRMs and Memory
The MSI (and Gigabyte) have been ruling the overclocking competition.

This doesn't guarantee that Asus won't take back the title in the next generation or with the next card (980 Ti ?) in the product line ... it just means that they won this (970) round, tho I'd have to say there's a strong case to made for Gugabyte and MSI being co-champions .... in the past I knocked out Gigglebyte because of their noise issues but they seem to have eliminated that issue this time around.

 

[Mihai Ilie]

Thanks for your answer. I do not know if you saw that as I edited it while you answered...my psu is an antec vp700w and it's brand new just like the other components.

Also what do you think about the build overall: i7 4790k, asus z97k, seagate barracuda 1TB, corsair vengeance 2x4GB, antec vp700, nzxt 210 elite...and most probably a msi gtx 970. (I will mostly play battlefield 4...#bf4ever ) )

 

[JackNaylorPE]

4790k - good choice

Z97K - If we thinking about the same one, ($125 - $135 price range), I generally choose the MSI G45 here.

Seagate barracuda 1TB - I wuda went with the Seagate SSHD

Corsair vengeance 2x4GB - 2133 CAS 9 I presume (generally same price as 1600)

vp700 - I wuda went a lil bigger (Seasonic X series / EVGA G2 / / Corsaor HX - 750 or 850 if overclocking) for SLI, see below

nzxt 210 elite - I try not to slip to far below $100 when getting a case as I find users later come to regret slicing budget here. My budget case recommendation is usually the Phanteks Enthoo Pro - $90 - $100 but I have found that I can oft get the Corsair 500R for as low as $79 when timing is right. The 210 tho is a great competitor in its price range.


http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/gigabyte_geforce_gtx_980_g1_gaming_review,7.html

Here is Guru3D's power supply recommendation:

GeForce GTX 970 or 980 - On your average system the card requires you to have a 500 Watt power supply unit.
GeForce GTX 970 or 980 in 2-way SLI - On your average system the cards require you to have an 800 Watt power supply unit as minimum.

If you are going to overclock your GPU or processor, then we do recommend you purchase something with some more stamina.

 

[Mihai Ilie]

I will not overclock too much. And certanly not gonna sli any time soon. Do you think I will be fine with just changing the msi's profile to "gaming" while I am gaming (I heard it has such profiles) with this psu? Also..I am not going to overclock my cpu any time soon either.

 

[Robertwhyte]

"Not as powerful as the others"

They are all the same GPU lol others just have higher factory overclocks than others, you can easily match any overclock with any 970. Obviously other things to consider are cooling, noise and size, but thats really it when comparing the same GPU, unless ovcourse its all completely non reference like EVGAs classified series.

 

[JackNaylorPE]

The GPUs are the same but the PCB's are far from it. Therefore you can not necessarily match any card's overclock with any same series card. That would be equivalent to saying a specific sports car is as fast as every other model with the same base engine model, despite the fact that some may have turbos, superchargers, transmisson, gearing, tire, exhaust, fuel supply, suspension and other performance related modifications.

Differences between reference cards and non-reference cards over the last few generations may include for example the following:

1. Coolers..... better coolers / fans / fan control mean lower heat, lower heat means higher/ more stable OC's.
2. Bigger / better VRMs .... this was most evident with the 570 cards where owners of EVGA's SC series for example were frying their VRMs 4 phase when over clocking while Asus and other users with 6 / 8 phase VRMs were just fine. Aside from "not frying", better VRMs result in more stable power which in turn results in more stable OC's.
3. Better componentry .... super ferrite chokes, better japanese capacitors all lead to more stable power and better overclocks
4. Better PCB / VRM Cooling .... the VRM is the hottest point on the card and when it hits up near 100C, your OC stability is compromised. With the 900 series, this is less of an issue than it has been in the past.
5. Better Memory - Look no further than the Asus 780 DCII which arrived in two flavors, one with Samsung memory, one with Elpida. Those who drew Elpida were sorely disappointed as overclocks were substantially less.
6. Better Memory Cooling .... some vendors provide heat sinks / thermal pads on the memory, some do not. This affects ultimate overclocks.
7. Binned GPUs .... some vendors have "binned" the GPUs handpicking the best ones for the premium lines. Asus 670 DCII TOP is prolly the most well known example.
8. Allowable tweaks ... some vendors have permitted additional tweaks within their overclocking (i.e. voltage) on some of their factory OC'd lines.
9. Physical Voltage Modding .... some vendors have provided the means and tools to allow one to bypass nVidia's voltage locks.

There is the reason that some cards consistently overclock better than others .... when you see the same results in review after review, it's obvious that the silicon lottery is not at play here. If all cards could overclock the same, when overclocked by reviewers, we wouldn't see things like this:

Reference 970
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/nvidia_geforce_gtx_970_and_980_reference_review,28.html
Core Clock 1326 MHz
Boost Clock: ~1452 MHz
Memory Clock: 8002 MHz

Asus 970
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/asus_geforce_gtx_970_strix_review,26.html
Core Clock 1264MHz
Boost Clock: ~1443MHz
Memory Clock: 8002 MHz

MSi 970
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/msi_geforce_gtx_970_gaming_review,26.html
Core Clock 1325 MHz
Boost Clock: ~1501 MHz
Memory Clock: 8002 MHz

Gigabyte 970
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/gigabyte_geforce_gtx_970_g1_gaming_review,26.html
Core Clock 1328 MHz
Boost Clock: ~1516 MHz
Memory Clock: 8002 MHz

Now if you read the bit-tech article above, you will note that the Asus has physically little to differentiate it from the reference model, and as such, has similar (though actually in this case worse) performance than the reference model. The MSI model which has substantial differences (as does the Giga) and we find performs better. HighTechLegion hit 1567 and other sites have broken 1600. I have not found a review as yet where either the reference model or Asus 970 broke 1500.

nVidia has increasingly clamped down both legally and physically as to what it board partners can do with voltages and overclocking potential and as time has gone on, the differences we see on the non-reference boards have shrunken. But even though the performance differences have shrunk over the last 3 generations, we still find that for little or no cost increase, we are getting better performance, quieter systems and better components.