News MSI Showcases AM5 Socket, X670 Platform's Dual Chipsets

wifiburger

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f AMD and their garbage 1st gen new platform chipsets / mobo

if I were to guess it will have issues with DDR5 memory for months, they will stop productions after release day & they will stop bios support after just 2 cpu gens

no amount of premium flare & worthless pcie5 will get me to buy into 1st gen AM5 mobo with Zen4 being 16core only and crap performance increase
 
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f AMD and their garbage 1st gen new platform chipsets / mobo

if I were to guess it will have issues with DDR5 memory for months, they will stop productions after release day & they will stop bios support after just 2 cpu gens

no amount of premium flare & worthless pcie5 will get me to buy into 1st gen AM5 mobo with Zen4 being 16core only and crap performance increase
You are basing all of your claims on nothing that is unbiased. When Ryzen launched it was a mess in several of the ways you mentioned, however, that has no barring on Zen 4. I will be right there with you if it releases with issues. "only" 16 cores, lmao. If you need more than 16 there are several options more relevant to you up to 64 if you had any need for more threads.
 

InvalidError

Titan
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Moving the CPU's bypass capacitors to the package is very much necessary for high-speed designs since their effectiveness is closely related to how close you can put them to the load. Putting them on-package mostly eliminates the socket from the equation.

I'm actually surprised AMD managed to get away with few or no bypass caps on package with AM4.
 

KananX

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f AMD and their garbage 1st gen new platform chipsets / mobo

if I were to guess it will have issues with DDR5 memory for months, they will stop productions after release day & they will stop bios support after just 2 cpu gens

no amount of premium flare & worthless pcie5 will get me to buy into 1st gen AM5 mobo with Zen4 being 16core only and crap performance increase
Unlikely and even Zen 1s problems were wildly overstated by toxic people and haters. Actual people with knowledge (not tech noobs) didn’t have big problems with it, some annoyance maybe. And the problems were all solved with bios updates later, so it was only the very beginning of Ryzen 1000 and that’s it.
 

InvalidError

Titan
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Unlikely and even Zen 1s problems were wildly overstated by toxic people and haters.
My first experience dealing with AM4 is having a no-boot, then getting accused by the store of frying components, the store spending an hour parts-swapping components until they found a combination that worked on the board before they could do a BIOS update and ultimately find out that all components were perfectly fine.

The only way it could have gone worse would have been if the store hadn't struggled to get anything working, then it would likely have stuck with the initial accusation.
 
My first experience dealing with AM4 is having a no-boot, then getting accused by the store of frying components, the store spending an hour parts-swapping components until they found a combination that worked on the board before they could do a BIOS update and ultimately find out that all components were perfectly fine.

The only way it could have gone worse would have been if the store hadn't struggled to get anything working, then it would likely have stuck with the initial accusation.
My first Zen Experience was with my 3900x on release day with the ASUS x570-f board. There were several overclocking settings bugs, multiple bugs related to Ryzen Master program causing issues, chipset drivers not installing / updating properly, et cetera. People that downplay the problems related to the 1000s CPU release are living in a bubble. I remember so many posts here about so many problems. In my case everything was fixed within the first few weeks of release and none of the issues prevented safe use of the CPU for what I needed it for.

For Zen 4 I expect a better release than the 1000, 2000, 3000, and 5000 series CPUs. AMD has become a bit better on release for ever major new CPU series launch since the 1000s.
 

KananX

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Sorry but anecdotal stories are hardly evidence, and most people as a matter of fact, had low to no problems with it. Otherwise Ryzen 1000 would’ve been a huge failure, but it wasn’t.

Here my own anecdotal story: 3700X didn’t boot with both 3600 RAMs in (2x16 GB) on my X570 board, did a quick bios update and it worked then flawlessly. That’s it. I bet most people had the same story as me or even easier, depending on which Ram they used, the more you want the more you’re running into compatibility problems. With Ryzen 1000 it was simple to get it running with lower clocked Ram, guess what, that’s what most people did. It was more complicated once you wanted more clocks and possibly more than advertised by AMD.
 
Sorry but anecdotal stories are hardly evidence, and most people as a matter of fact, had low to no problems with it. Otherwise Ryzen 1000 would’ve been a huge failure, but it wasn’t.

Here my own anecdotal story: 3700X didn’t boot with both 3600 RAMs in (2x16 GB) on my X570 board, did a quick bios update and it worked then flawlessly. That’s it. I bet most people had the same story as me or even easier, depending on which Ram they used, the more you want the more you’re running into compatibility problems. With Ryzen 1000 it was simple to get it running with lower clocked Ram, guess what, that’s what most people did. It was more complicated once you wanted more clocks and possibly more than advertised by AMD.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Reddit, Toms, and other forums were blowing up when Ryzen 1000 released with all kinds of issues for months. It is widely known that Ryzen 1k had a bumpy launch with many many BIOS, RAM, and connectivity issues that were widespread.
 

KananX

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You have no idea what you are talking about. Reddit, Toms, and other forums were blowing up when Ryzen 1000 released with all kinds of issues for months. It is widely known that Ryzen 1k had a bumpy launch with many many BIOS, RAM, and connectivity issues that were widespread.
Just confirms what I already said.

Give me some hard evidence, factual proof of how many users had problems vs users that had not. Yea, no, you’re not winning this argument. Ryzen 1000s problems were greatly overstated. Your toxicity on the other hand doesn’t help you either. Know more about this <Mod Edit> than you will ever know.
 
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InvalidError

Titan
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Give me some hard evidence, factual proof of how many users had problems vs users that had not. Yea, no, you’re not winning this argument. Ryzen 1000s problems were greatly overstated.
The way the shop had to go through over a dozen of hardware permutations between CPUs, motherboards and RAM when my friend brought his Ryzen 1700X back because I couldn't get a boot strongly suggests to me that this was far from being an isolated incident.

While we may not have numbers of the proportion of successful first-time boots vs failed, all indicators point toward Ryzen 1000's launch being far worse than typical.
 
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KananX

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The way the shop had to go through over a dozen of hardware permutations between CPUs, motherboards and RAM when my friend brought his Ryzen 1700X back because I couldn't get a boot strongly suggests to me that this was far from being an isolated incident.

While we may not have numbers of the proportion of successful first-time boots vs failed, all indicators point toward Ryzen 1000's launch being far worse than typical.
It wasn’t a great launch, I didn’t argue this. The only thing I argued was nerds exaggerating things, and this is a normal occurrence for decades in tech forums. The problems were fixed after a few weeks, and if you had ordered the right RAM with your mainboard, there wasn’t any problem to begin with. There are compatibility lists that get regularly ignored by everyone because they think “they don’t matter”. Or amateurs thinking they can build a PC while they simply have no clue, not even that a list exists.

The alder lake launch wasn’t great either, and nothing about PCs is “great” unless you know how to handle <Mod Edit> and able to trouble shoot.

<Moderator Warning: This is your second profanity violation. No points this time but next one will earn you no less than a 24hr ban>
 
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InvalidError

Titan
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The alder lake launch wasn’t great either
Show-stopping launch issues are practically unheard of with Intel chips. I've never had an Intel build I couldn't get to boot with almost any random bunch of known-good parts and I've never heard of anyone running into such issues either. The Ryzen 1000 launch was quite unique in how bad the out-of-box memory compatibility was. While AMD did release a bunch of AGESA updates over the first couple of months that fixed the bulk of these issues, that does nothing for all the boards already shipped with launch-day versions still in the distribution channels. This ensured that people would continue running into launch-day issues with their new builds on a regular basis through most of the first year.
 
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The only thing I argued was nerds exaggerating things, and this is a normal occurrence for decades in tech forums.
Your argument is anecdotal. Where is the evidence of the, "nerds exaggerating things," on such forums and that it is a, "normal occurrence for decades," that they have been doing so? At least I have the luxury of clarity of mind to remember the literal thousands of posts on multiple tech forums regarding a multitude of issues with the Ryzen 1000 launch.
 

KananX

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Your argument is anecdotal. Where is the evidence of the, "nerds exaggerating things," on such forums and that it is a, "normal occurrence for decades," that they have been doing so? At least I have the luxury of clarity of mind to remember the literal thousands of posts on multiple tech forums regarding a multitude of issues with the Ryzen 1000 launch.
Sure my argument is anecdotal for you, if you pick a part of it out, without understanding the full picture I painted.

Alder Lake launch surely wasn’t great, with CPU issues, games flat out not working. People have selective memories, typical AMD vs Intel debate, despite the mind share AMD picked up, Intel is still seen as “better”, interesting, but not true

The problems were fixed after a few weeks, and if you had ordered the right RAM with your mainboard, there wasn’t any problem to begin with. There are compatibility lists that get regularly ignored by everyone because they think “they don’t matter”. Or amateurs thinking they can build a PC while they simply have no clue, not even that a list exists.
I’m gonna stick with this, your arguments aren’t convincing to me, not even remotely.

The most experienced users had no problem with Ryzen 1000, do I have to care about people doing mistakes and then blaming the new platform, I don’t. You buy a new platform, then don’t buy the wrong RAM, be prepared or have problems, it’s a bit easy to blame AMD for all of it, but most of it was preventable if the user had used the right components. PC flat out not starting, 100% a user issue. Ram not reaching higher clocks, AMD issue, this is the only thing I’m willing to accept.

Nobody ever said PC is a easy platform, if I had those problems with Ryzen 1000 I would’ve 100% blamed myself and not AMD. But as always in life it’s too easy to blame others. Either be prepared or don’t buy a brand new platform, same goes with Intel. Alder Lake launch wasn’t perfect either, despite the billions of money advantage Intel had compared to AMD 2017, to me, games not being playable is a way bigger issue than some RAM types not working. I can easily order the right RAM or swap the RAM later, but the games needed months being fixed.

With this I’m gonna leave this discussion as well, feel free to disagree.
 
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InvalidError

Titan
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Alder Lake launch surely wasn’t great, with CPU issues, games flat out not working. People have selective memories, typical AMD vs Intel debate, despite the mind share AMD picked up, Intel is still seen as “better”, interesting, but not true
Games failing to launch with Alder Lake wasn't Intel's fault, it was mostly the games DRM or anti-cheat getting triggered by the uneven performance between P/E cores, nothing wrong with the hardware itself.
 
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Games failing to launch with Alder Lake wasn't Intel's fault, it was mostly the games DRM or anti-cheat getting triggered by the uneven performance between P/E cores, nothing wrong with the hardware itself.
I'm guessing me, yourself, and others just weren't included in, "The most experienced users," that, "had no problem," with Ryzen 1000. See, if we knew what we were doing and we had more experience on a wholly new platform that didn't exist prior, we would have not had any issues.

@KananX Myself and others, picked up RAM from the motherboard vender lists and still had issues with the kits running. There were many issues with the BIOS's of many boards that were show stoppers for months after release. The AM4 socket itself launched and still has a tendency to pull the CPU right out of the socket with the cooler, which has the potential to bend pins on the CPU especially if you don't notice it immediately. This can be alleviated by twisting the cooler while the CPU is in the socket to break the bond with the cooler and the TIM attached to the IHS, but that was not a known quantity at launch. Among other examples I am not going to list, there were many issues with the Ryzen 1000 launch. That being said, it has been a wild ride of actual competition since AMD released Ryzen. I am the owner of 2 of their CPUs and have built 12 systems with AMD's Ryzen CPUs since. To label me, "inexperienced," and an, "exaggerating nerd," or even an, "amateur," as all was alluded to in your post is a bit much even if unintended. I hope you have a great day and weekend.
 

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