MSI vs GIGABYTE

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fankoosh

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Nov 9, 2013
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Hello ppl
I need M.B and I search alot and w8 until z97 come .
But now from what available here im stuck between MSI GAMING 7 &GIGABYTE GAMING 7 .
I was thinking to go with MSI but I wanna know what do u think about these 2 .
Thx in advance
 
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Based on 8yrs as a PC shop and my own years of using Gigabyte (my current board is 7yrs old) after I say go gigabyte. My experience with MSI is the same as the other poster's comment. Military class doesn't mean squat if your QC sucks to begin with. I don't recommend anything from MSI these days. I used to like DFI/Abit as an overclocker but eventually went Asus/Gigabyte for most customer builds (abit went to crap, stopped DFI after lan party boards ages ago) and actually always did for...
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Based on 8yrs as a PC shop and my own years of using Gigabyte (my current board is 7yrs old) after I say go gigabyte. My experience with MSI is the same as the other poster's comment. Military class doesn't mean squat if your QC sucks to begin with. I don't recommend anything from MSI these days. I used to like DFI/Abit as an overclocker but eventually went Asus/Gigabyte for most customer builds (abit went to crap, stopped DFI after lan party boards ages ago) and actually always did for customers. I rarely had issues with either and both were rock solid for 3 days of burn-in always. Prime95 for a day straight and 2 days running quake2 or ssam back then...both rock solid games in looped demo maxed. Quake2 could be run without an install easily (simple copy and delete after, nothing done to windows) and I sold serious sam with a lot of pc's back then (had vendor deals etc for cheapo software).

Solid Japanese caps is the main point for me, and QC while having them in there. I had more msi problems than any other and I'd rather see you say Asus/Gigabyte. I rarely stray for anyone unless it's myself, but I know how to fix things as I'm a 15yr+ tech. Also my vendors gave their RMA data to me (helps to be friends with your rep and rarely be doing RMA's due to ESD or just being too ignorant to work on PC's, or you miss this data), so if quality is the same as back then the RMA numbers say avoid MSI. I got cheaper prices pushing the stuff they knew didn't come back when installed by a good tech, and believe me I went that way 99% of the time. I was too small to be doing mass RMA's weekly. I didn't want you coming back unless you wanted another PC or a new one years later.

There are other good boards, don't get me wrong. But these two are #1, #2 in shipments for a reason IMHO. I think Asrock was 3rd last I checked but that isn't me making a recommendation for them thought they seem to be ok. IF you sell trash you go down quick which I think is what happened to abit (QC went into the crapper), and OC'ers (abit catered to them for years) won't put up with crap boards and we tell people as many of us are IT talking to hundreds or thousands a year on the job...LOL.
 
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Don't evet believe ungrounded and biased thoughts like poor QC and support. These are mostly subjective beliefs where "actual RMA rates" are very very close and so called "support" really changes depending where you live. Anyone with a common sense of hardware would know that. It's disappointing to see these kinds of comments in an enthusiast forums like Tom's Hardware.

Someone above mentioned about solid caps are the main point. Well, for more than 7-8 years everyone is using Japanese made solid caps. Don't worry about it. :)

About your question. I performed detailed surgery on quite a few z97 boards so far and I'll give you some good information.

Before going into depths. I have to say that both boards offers similar features. E.g both have pretty much the same amount of sata3 and usb3 ports. You can sli&crossfire with them. Both have new m.2 storage device support etc.. Both have good uefı bios, dual bios feature, debug leds, fan control.

Also they both have similar quality audio solution and both are better than the ones Asus and ASRock offers in any price range. Actually almost all of those boards use Realtek's latest ALC1150 codec. But Gigabyte and MSI employs high end nichicon caps for this area which are exactly the same that are used on professional audio solutions. So unless you want a Gigabyte G1.Sniper with quadcore Creative Core 3D sound processor, these two offer best onboard solution on the market.

Let's go deeper.

Since you want a Z97, you are an enthusiast and you also might want to overclock a bit right? So VRM department will have importance as well.

* Gigabyte Gaming 7 employs digitally controlled 8 true phases without a doubler. Controller is from International Rectifier (3563B). Has powerpak mosfets from Vishay. It's an interesting choice since Gigabyte was using driver mosfets from IR on Z87s. Those were better but also costly, so they must have found out that it's a bit overkill to use. Those vishay powerpaks are efficient as well but not that much. Must be 25A@6.5W.

I don't have much information how their chokes (inductors) perform. They are ferrite core inductors but no idea about their total output. Capacitors on the other hand must be from Chemi-con 10K hours rated @ 105C.

* MSI Gaming 7 on the other hand, has digitally controlled 6 true phases doubled to 12. Not as powerful as true 12 phase though, but better than having only 6 true phases. Controller is from Intersil (6388). This is the first digital controller from good old Intersil and first used on MSI boards which is surprisingly good. This board employs powerpak fets from nikos which must be around 38-39A@6.5W. More efficient than the Vishay ones on the Gigabyte. Means better heat dissipation and efficiency, but not like day&night.

Inductors are super ferrite cores rated at 60A, which means they are top-notch. Capacitors are tantalum filled low profile solid caps (most probably) from Panasonic rated at 160k hours @ 85C. (those caps never get that hot though).

What do those information mean. Well they really have very very similar in terms of vrm quality and have same overclocking potential. But I should admit that Gigabyte is tad better here.

So if VRM were the only selling point, I'd consider buying Gigabyte z97x-gaming 7.

But it's not.

All in all; they are really similar in each department. In the end it's your decision. Just take which one looks better in your opinion. :)

And sorry but don't believe ungrounded shit told around.
 
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Lot's of professional comp builder/repair shop techs have attested their same personal experience about how unreliable MSI is. MSI has put out known buggy boards in the past. Personal experience trumps all, IMO.

From my own personal experience, I stay away from MSI unless customer cannot be talked out of it.
 
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And I always look for the scientific and statistical facts. Like real RMA rates, actual customer reviews (not from some fanboys who never used a certain brand), component specs etc... And I'm also making tests, and detailed surgeries myself when I have some opportunity.

On the other hand I'm using computers since early 90s and I've had more than 20 personal computers since then and I've seen countless components so far. From my personal experience your argument just sounds like a clown-shoe, no offense. It's not even funny though. It's sad.

Even though I always had problems with a very popular brand (I'm sure you would say thousands of praises for that brand), I don't like to promote or demote a certain brand since it's just personal experience and it will vary people to people. There's no scientific way to evaluate newegg customer reviews right? But if you look at there; MSI z87-gd65 (pretty much the older counterpart of msi gaming 7 has one of the best z87 motherboard customer review ratings).

So based on some customer reviews, it's clear that argument is ungrounded and lazy. Sorry to say that but you don't even have a solid data to support that argument. Just some empty words. It's really sad to see such stuff on an enthusiast forum. Rumors, myths, utter lies, ungrounded arguments... Don't get it personal though. Lots of people doing that here.

How about put some real information and science on the table? Without promoting or demoting a certain brand? :)
 
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Wow thx for info .
Btw they have same price here .

 
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Sorry, but I don't see your point. I sold this stuff for 8yrs and had vendor data from ASI, Supercom and IETNW. I had their RMA data. That isn't fake, those 3 sold to everyone that had a PC business in my state at the time (and ASI/Supercom were national, so tons of RMA data from everywhere on everything they sold). I mentioned NO customer reviews, I'm talking VENDOR RMA data. It doesn't get any better than that and my own data over the years showed nearly exactly what they showed (and I stopped pushing msi). Mentioning the Japanese solid caps is just that, I want them no matter what. And I'm not sure you can claim EVERYONE uses them for the last 7yrs.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/asus-gigabyte-motherboard,5348.html
Gigabyte said once, that Asus didn't at some point. China makes them too, but not sure if that is exactly what they meant (more that they were not up to snuff). Take that for what you will though.

However on the ALL SOLID for 7yrs...ummm:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813135349
Might want to take a look at that SELLING current Am3+ product on newegg. Just an example. I don't see ALL solid caps...LOL.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128696
What the heck...How can more than one exist with NOT ALL solid caps? Say it ain't so. I see lots of tin cans pal.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813138399
What the heck...Biostar, gigabyte, ECS...Are you getting the point smart surgery guy? These are ALL current boards with usb3.0, sata etc...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157361
WTH? Asrock has some might huge funny looking cans that surely resemble NOT SOLID CAPS correct? Wowsers those are weird looking solid caps 😉

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813138373
Even up to $50 still not all solid....I can list a TON of these. For someone claiming everyone posts are bs, you seem to need to re-examine your own statements.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157469
How many do you need? Holy crap can city...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813138366&ignorebbr=1
Even up to $60, though not many cans. FM2 board.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132137&ignorebbr=1
WTF? ASUS, oh no you didn't...ROFLMAO. FM2+ $60 brand new models right?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813138386&ignorebbr=1
Same thing on low-end Intel side of the boards. I'll stop now since if you don't get the point by now, you are incapable of getting it 😉 I'll assume you're just ignorant rather than stupid 😉 As you said the the other poster, no offense of course 😉 Is that enough "REAL INFORMATION" for you?

BTW, while you were playing with your 20 pc builds (a PUNY sample size), I was building them and selling them for 8yrs straight and still doing them on the side for years after. The RMA data, as noted, is from millions of sales across multiple distributors over those 8yrs I bought parts from. End users couldn't buy there, you needed a business account, & you stand in line with your enemies buying parts and load up your van etc - or pay for delivery (there are rules so you can buy for yourself etc, reseller agreements blah blah). Not quite sure how you justify a few pc builds (yeah I call that anything under 100) as a valid test vs. MILLIONS of motherboard sales from multiple vendors who sell to PC shops that in turn build PC's based on those parts. They have shelves loaded with RMA's and it's easy to see just walking in the door who comes back the most (for whatever reason, we're talking stacks and stacks). That data is what I'd call a large sample set.

One more note, not all solid caps are the same either. You can pop those too if the materials used are junk (well nothing is fail proof, but you get the point) and you push them too hard. If I'm a fanboy, I'm a FAN of stuff that DOES NOT COME BACK. As a home user I'll take a risk that I wouldn't dare do in business. I can fix ONE or two at home, but not 100's in business. Selling the wrong stuff can kill your profits quickly as a small shop. I don't mind promoting QUALITY and knocking TRASH. That's the whole point of having the data; you can give a decent opinion of product X or brand Y with some conviction. If my favorite maker puts out a piece of junk I avoid it and tell others the same. Coupling valuable RMA data, with tons of user reviews adds up to a pretty good opinion (on top of my own experiences). IE from an avg 20pk of Matrox G200 cards back then I'd get 3 that couldn't run on Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 91TXM @75hz 1600x1200 (wavy lines etc issues, QA sucked IMHO). I kind of got sick of that rate and stopped buying them just to get out of checking every single one and matrox got an earful (note they don't sell many cards today either, so word got out!). Granted I ignore "this sucks" with nothing more to back it from a person who makes comments that sound as though they have no business building a pc, but you can tell the good user review from the bad pretty easily if you're a technician yourself. Is it comic in the end you say Gigabyte anyway? Pretty much what we said. This wasn't really a conversation about features either, I think it was about brand quality (I stray occasionally for a feature, but if going quality it's ASUS/GByte if they have all I need).

I've owned more than 20 pc's and tested oodles of parts that I was running through my business (every tray of cpus just to get the best OCers for the family...ROFL). I currently have 4 laptops (5 if you count one I wouldn't bother to mention...LOL maybe 2 I wouldn't count really as they just sit today), a PC, a server among other stuff and enough parts to probably build another few. Does that mean I win? ROFL. Have you ever bought a 20pk or 50pk of any PC component? Points made I guess...I digress...
 
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Hey somebody special, why are you feel so offended. I didn't tell anything directly to you, just mentioned that the capacitor plague or bad caps isn't the case anymore. And I was talking about the mid-range boards since this thread is about that context. That's really weird. Take some air man. We are cool. Don't take everything personal. 🙂

On the other hand. How do you know I wasn't building PCs or even manufacturing them? More than 8 years maybe? Maybe even longer than your age? So please don't put yourself in a funny position.

Above I just mentioned my real findings while closely analyzing some z97 boards. If you've done some surgery on some VRMs before you would understand me I guess.

About RMA rates... Well, last year for z77 chipsets the RMA rates are very very close between a %2-3 range avarage. For z77 boards Asus Rampage had the highest RMA rate for example with %5+. Can you call that a bad board? Not sure. But Asus had some poor QC going there for sure. You can find these datas on the net. From my friend's experience it took more than 2 months to get his board back from Asus RMA procedures. I still don't call them bad even though sht loads of people I know had similar problems. Yet I haven't had any problem with them.

So these things are still a bit subjective and even the actual RMA rates might not give a final word on the quality. But it still tells us something right? And it proves your argument is ungrounded.



So you call me an MSI fanboy while I suggested Gigabyte above?

Ok. Now I have a clue about how your brain works. Thank you.

Also you were the one that values customer reviews. I prefer newegg as a reference (since the reviews are from verified owners) instead of some strange guy who have no idea of hardware common sense.
 
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[/quotemsg]
Wow thx for info .
Btw they have same price here .

[/quotemsg]

No worries man.

Gigabyte Gaming 7 seems the best bang for the buck today and MSI Gaming 7 comes second. You can't go wrong with either one. Don't believe the myths.
 
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feelintheblanks,

u r making too many childish assumptions, presumptions here. I will continue to give my opinions, my perspective on whatever issue I choose to. Sorry but I am not here to just "argue" and disrupt threads here @ Tom's.

Why make and take what people say here personal??? Too many "you" "you" 's in your post for some reason. Sorry, but I never said a thing about you at all or call you any names. More assumptions/presumptions? Like where did I call "you" a fan boy???

Where are you getting anything that I said in this thread, that makes you think I value newegg reviews??? More assumptions/presumptions??? More like putting your words in my mouth.

I am stopping here and am not gonna waste my time with this thread any more. So post on if ya want. Not me.

Couldn't help but laugh some with somebodyspecial's last post.....

 
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I've had four MSI products (two motherboards, two video cards) and they have all been rock solid - no failures. I've had two Gigabyte boards (one AM2, one AM3 - both top end for their time) and one video card (GTX 260 Super Overclock) and all three failed within one to three years of purchase. Buying hardware is something of a crap shoot regardless of brand. That said, I wouldn't rule out a Gigabyte motherboard because I had a couple instances of bad luck. I would consider any of the top brands (ASUS - which I currently use, MSI, ASRock or Gigabyte) if it had the feature set I wanted at a decent price.

@somebodyspecial

A quick good shows that el cheapo ECS does have solid caps.
http://www.ecs.com.tw/ECSWebSite/Product/Product_Detail.aspx?DetailID=1428&CategoryID=1&DetailName=Feature&MenuID=115&LanID=9

As does the Gigabyte you linked.
http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4937#ov

As does the Biostar:
http://www.biostar.com.tw/app/en/mb/introduction.php?S_ID=696

The ASRock too:
http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/A55M-VS/

Did you take the time to check any of the manufacturers product pages for solid caps in the specs before constructing your post? As you said, they're not all the same though. Of course a high end board is going to use better quality components - including solid caps.

 
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I don't understand how correcting you means I'm offended. I'm assuming a few others might have been, which is why I sarcastically responded with all the grins/winks.

You did attack pretty much everyone's comments on quality with blanket statements about not believing ungrounded crap. I agree, which is why people reading this should ignore most of what you said and rely on the people who know what RMA's mean in large quantity. It IS very grounded in RMA data between these guys and IT people/technicians doing the work. Further you made a blanket statement about caps:
"Well, for more than 7-8 years everyone is using Japanese made solid caps. Don't worry about it."
Anyone reading this would assume you meant EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING, as that is what you said. You didn't just say in the price range his boards are in, not just these guys, etc you said everyone & don't worry. If anyone takes that and purchases they will be wrong. I do not believe you meant just this range, it was only after I showed how ridiculous the blanket statement was that you adjust the statement. Not all caps are the same either, as I pointed out.

Surgery on VRM's means nothing regarding quality of a board and how many times they come back over the whole brand (you're saying what, you know how to use a soldering iron? Many techs do). Nobody brags about building 20 pc's since the 90's if they've built 1000's and worked as a certified tech the whole time (my first computer was 1982, not that it matters). Your cherry picking of a single board that had problems by ASUS shows you don't understand the difference between the RMA rates of Gigabyte (or asus) vs. MSI as a whole. You chose ONE board and everyone makes a bad product occasionally. The data you used is from a french report here (translated by linustechtips I Guess):
http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/108284-huge-list-of-failure-rates-on-pc-components-french-but-i-translated-nearly-everything/

The point you'd understand as a re-seller/var etc is this:
"Average Failure rates:
- Gigabyte 1,19% (vs 1,77% before)
- ASUS 1,79% (vs 2,34% before)
- ASRock 2,09% (vs 1,67% before)
- MSI 3,05% (vs 2,24% before)

Compared to the previous period, Gigabyte and Asus do better, Asrock and MSI less. Gigabyte is in an obvious lead, while MSI's number surpasses 3%, which is worrying to say the least."

First look at the percent and understand it's 3x more work on MSI (and it's getting worse from the prior year right?) and for the two you WOULD NOT be fixing if NOT selling MSI you could be EARNING money building another machine that probably doesn't come back at 1.19% (not to mention the reputation hit for selling them something that failed, they usually assume YOU built them the piece of junk, fair or not). It's not just the 3x more fixing, it's what you're losing by not BUILDING more instead of fixing also. If I'm selling 100's or thousands of boards you don't want to be fixing 3x as many as gigabyte. That is the OVERALL average not just a SINGLE bad product, which clearly you'd avoid selling if you did your homework first in a few forums etc. Intel sells a ton of boards to people who merely just don't want to FIX it later. Though I rarely like their features I get why they sell.

Further in the report you're citing data from for rampage board:
"If we look more specifically at LGA 1155 Z77 Express motherboards, here is the ranking we get:
- Gigabyte 1,70%
- ASUS 1,87%
- ASRock 1,91%
- MSI 3,57%"

Again, we're seeing DOUBLE Asus/Gbyte. And the writers very DAMNING conclusion on that group of models?:
"A high percentage of the high return rate for MSI motherboards is then related to their Z77 models."

Sure a board or two sticks out, but OVERALL, even over an product chipset, MSI is WORSE and that isn't hype or "ungrounded" crap. It is the GROUNDED IN DATA plain truth.

All z77 boards combined again shows MSI as one of the worst 5 models:
All models combined, here are the 4 models with higher than 5% return rates :
- 7,05% ASRock 970 Extreme3
- 6,19% MSI X79A-GD45
- 6,08% ASRock 990FX Extreme3
- 6,06% ASRock 970 Pro3

Isn't 6.19% above the board you cited? As I said everybody has a piece of junk once in a while, but the main point is are they doing WORSE overall? Because when you're picking new models you have no idea how that particular one will pan out for a while so you run on OVERALL how have they been over the years. The data has shown you bet Gigabyte or Asus in most cases year after year and drop models quarterly that appear to come back more than others (I got my data quarterly from ASI/supercom). As a reseller/var you don't just sell one board or chipset you sell a LOT of chipsets and even many models in each one (hopefully you pick the ones that come back the least).

Your info no VRM's is really only applicable to a person who wants to push a board to the limits and for most overclockers this kind of info is moot as they will be plenty satisfied by most of the top end models which will likely show your cpu hitting limits without LN2 etc. Surgery? You think he'll whip out a soldering iron or something? I'd expect his post to include more details if that's what he was planning (or anything remotely like that, he may just be wanting a great gamer board, which both are overkill for anyway). The user didn't even mention overclocking in his initial post. It seems the person just wanted to know the features of the boards and if he's making a mistake buying these. Posters answered via RMA data they've seen over the brands which for me ends the conversation (regarding MSI, and leaves the gigabyte) as I wouldn't advise home users to build MSI based on RMA data if they don't know how to troubleshoot extensively themselves. Worse if someone takes your CAP comment seriously, they may just say heck buy the $50 board since everything has great solid caps (which we know is completely wrong). Many users might not even know the difference between a solid or electrolytic cap (the way it looks I mean) and just run on the thought everything is solid so who cares. NOPE. Your statement had to be corrected no matter what you claim you meant for the benefit of the newbies/tech-ignorant; which is the majority of users in the market no matter which website we're on. Look at the questions in the forum if you don't get my drift.

MSI GAMING 7=9 reviews at newegg (only one at amazon).
GIGABYTE GAMING 7=0 reviews at newegg as it just landed (even amazon has zero reviews still).
The only thing you can say about how they MIGHT turn out is older RMA data based on the entire brand's boards. These are too new to judge on RMA/quality probably for another quarter. Until then you're pretty much a beta tester for both boards 😉

That said even 3-5% isn't bad if you're NOT one of those in the percent...LOL.
 
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I don't get your point. I was merely showing there are a lot of boards without ALL solid still. But my point wasn't that you can get a cheap solid cap board. It was merely that not EVERYONE uses them on EVERYTHING. Just that.

I pulled up your gigabyte link. Are you actually looking at the pictures or not? They are not all solid caps. You do know the difference correct? The tin cans are NOT solid caps. Not going to bother with the rest as I don't recommend them over Gigabyte or Asus. Most of the caps on the Gbyte board you linked are ALL tin cans. Are you just hoping nobody would look at the pic at newegg or the link you gave from gbyte?

Ok pulled up the asrock also (as they are selling lots these days). It is ONLY solid for cpu. Did you READ the description or look at the pic on that one either? Might want to understand ALL SOLID means ZERO TIN CANS.
"Solid Capacitor for CPU Power" on asrock link, but cans everywhere else. Nice try though 😉

http://www.biostar.com.tw/app/en/mb/introduction.php?S_ID=696
Same here, cans all over it. ALL SOLID...NOT.

Heck only one left might as well down that ECS one also:
"Applied Solid Capacitor for CPU VRM"
Again that isn't ALL SOLID as you can clearly see form the pics and description. Am I saying all these boards suck. NOPE. Only that I wanted ALL SOLID, no exceptions and will spend to get it on more than just cpu. The boards don't just run on cpus 😉 What good is a cpu's caps that last forever if the cheapo caps kill you anyway? I'm not saying solid lasts forever, just making a point even if they did in this case. I call that marketing BS. All the caps matter, not just the ones around for the cpu. And yes, you can get all solid even on some cheaper boards, but I'd check to see where they're from first (I don't believe china makes the quality that the Japanese are so well known for). It's comic to me that firefox just wanted to cap Japanese but didn't give a hoot about china...ROFL. Meh, me either 😉 Even though I know why probably, (plates are not a country etc) it's still funny.
 
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These numbers you just copy/pasted from a report announced publicly and can be found on google easily.

In the same report there is is another RMA information regarding Intel's 7 chipset. Wonder why you didn't add this in to your comment.

- 5,88% ASUS Rampage IV Extreme
- 5,59% ASRock H77 Pro4/MVP
- 4,94% MSI Z77A-G45
- 4,10% ASRock 960GM/U3S3
- 4,09% ASUS P8Z68-V Pro/Gen3

And the most updated rma rates/avarage failures announced publicly as of October last year. So why you copy/pasted an older info? Who knows...

- Gigabyte 1,43% (vs 1,19% year before)

- MSI 1,83% (vs 3,05% year before)

- ASUS 1,86% (vs 1,79% year before)

- ASRock 2,09% (vs 2,09% year before)

And this is the latest RMA rate info announced publicly regarding z77s: Why you didn't mention that one? Well... Because...

- MSI 1,88%
- ASUS 2,01%
- Gigabyte 2,44%
- ASRock 3,51%

Don't hide the latest information which are announced publicly and can be found easily on the net. People are more clever than you think dude.

On the other hand I have the latest RMA reports in my hand from the first two quarters of 2014. If you "received" that information as well you already know it right? Sadly I can't tell anything since there are some NDAs about these stuff. But you know what i mean if your friends in industry find you important to give these numbers to you.

So don't make funny of yourself anymore. I'm tired of laughing already.
 
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You're getting them from the same link I gave: I'm supposed to believe you have new NDA data?
Link to the newer data please. I linked to the data showing what you gave me as the worst ASUS board:
- 5,88% ASUS Rampage IV Extreme
That is where I got everything from, YOUR data was from the same place I got mine. So is there magical data besides the stuff we're both quoting below in linus translation?
http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/108284-huge-list-of-failure-rates-on-pc-components-french-but-i-translated-nearly-everything/
Post date is Jan28 2014 (Oct data etc in there). I said, everyone puts out a turd, and you avoid that particular model if it's bad (like the MSI one over 6% rma etc) but as a purchaser not as a way to change the data. How far does asus plummet if you take out the Rampage at 5.88%? A lot.

They try to do the same thing manipulating data with asrock in that article also here:
Asrock obtains the worst score with 3.51%. It's failure rate however,is caused mostly by their Z77 boards because without them, Asrock would get a 2% failure rat."

Well if you drop the crap models, in this case the entire z77 board lineup wow they do better...ROFL. Sorry mistakes count, can't remove a board, an entire product line etc. Who wins overall year after year is what is an indicator of company wide product QA. You are picking data they have REMOVED models from to show them in a better light. That's like saying, "well if we ignore the 17.6 TRILLION dollars in debt we have right now, we have a FRIGGEN GREAT Economy". You can't remove the turds in the data to suit your need. The economy sucks with the 17.6T included and that is reality. You have to include it all or quit making the turds you don't want in the data that is bringing you down. You quote the whole thing, not boards based on X chipset and only after you remove the duds. All chipsets, all boards, then quote like I did.

Let me know when your NDA drops 😉 MSI has gained the rep over years (as have Gigabyte/Asus). They'd have to get it right for a few years to get my vote back if I was running a PC biz still, as you can see from the year before they were going the wrong direction getting worse, so not too stable. The two big boys have more for R&D, drivers, QA etc. Same with Intel vs. AMD on cpus. Or with NV vs. AMD on gpus. The bigger guy generally has good stuff (not always best, but good enough to buy without fear). IE NV's drivers are not in phase 3, freesync still not in anything while Gsync is here NOW etc. Yes it's all public data we're using easily found, that's the point and unlike you I include all the chipsets, all the boards then see who wins. Sorry it doesn't work out like you want. Sorry it doesn't get better until you start removing the worst boards that are dragging them down. Not really my problem as I can't change the data, just use it as it comes. Enjoy your evening.
 
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I usually don't reply on the opinion from repair shops. Their advice sometimes depends on benefit from big brands. of course, they want to promote those models with higher rebate from board makers. The editor might be angry on such a aggressive comment since they just gives awards to the so-called buggy board maker msi in the recent round-up review...funny.

from my point of view, the two boards has similar features/spec actually. even most of z97 board makers don't have new features but I am disappointed in gigabyte z97 line. it's obvious that they are copying either asus rog and msi gaming line.

when it comes to rma service, it REALLY depends on which stores/onlines you bought products from. I am fine with our local online shops. they delivered quality service. so DON'T buy cheap products with bad service quality!

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/mainstream-gaming-z97-motherboard,review-32948-27.html





 
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The number comes from a single shop from France, which can't stand for the true performance of whole population. The original article even doesn't mention which model/how many pcs they've sold. but I believe a trustable shop never sell the statics to a media...lol


" All statistics come from an unnamed large French online store, which provided the statistics to hardware.fr"
 
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Oops. tired hit the wrong button and lost me being the SOLUTION here for fankoosh...LOL.

Why would a shop not be trust-able for outing crap parts? Is netflix not trust-able for outing verizon/att shafting users? Spoken like someone who likes hiding stuff to screw people (I smell a union member who doesn't like REAL free market competition...LOL). Outing the data on the V.A. and how bad it is will probably lead to it getting fixed as opposed to another 40yrs or so of mistreatment of our veterans while HIDING their management bonuses etc for actually putting vets on waiting lists until they're dead or to far gone to help. Obama campaigned on helping the vets and had a report on his desk YEARLY since 2008. Without transparency (in most things that is) people just keep getting shafted. VA=80% union running the show, so no shocker treatment is bad with no where else for them to go. They can't go to another place outside the VA (the competition part) and charge the bill to the VA. Yet? Hopefully soon, or just kill the VA as it's clearly useless and killing people for bonuses...Get ready for the same treatment from obamacare just on a much more massive scale.

TLDR for most people, so move along.
I wish everyone would let loose with the data (at least to your customers), so I can't agree with you at all there. I told every customer I had about RMA data even if it made me less at the moment. But I didn't think it cost me since I knew I wouldn't be doing a repair later selling the junk (rebates or not). I felt people would come back for honesty and the data and they did. I did not advertise. The much more potent way was selling the truth and pitching the best products. I gave data from anandtech, tomshardware, storagereview, my distributors etc to show why I was telling them X card, board, drive etc was better and it produced enough work I sometimes had to tell people I just couldn't get to them. I had many buyers on their 3rd/4th PC before I quit (family medical situation sort of forced me to) and most blatantly said their business came from word of mouth. Probably 50-75% didn't even understand most of what I said as they'd admit it in some cases, but they understood I was getting them the best stuff their money could pay for. They all understood someone who talks like that backed by data doesn't sound like the other shops they perused. There were comments on the invoice many times about which products were #1 at x or y site etc in their builds in a note section.

There are ways to make up the money when downing a higher priced product also (when there is a valid reason of course), which wins big favor. If I told someone who came in with a list of parts for the machine they wanted built, "I think your pick is an overpriced part that is no better than this cheaper one" and showed them why I thought that, I'd follow that with how I thought they'd be better spending that savings elsewhere (it was never just saying save cash on part X, goodbye). Nine times out of ten I made the same thing or more and they left with better PC's/parts and comments that they'd be sending people my way shortly. I'd explain [for example], your vid card isn't as fast as this cheaper one shown here by X & Y benchmarks in the games you mention (I'd often pull up the sites in front of them), so save that money and double your ram, or get a bigger drive, better sound card etc so you get more from your PC (depending on what they'd told me was most important for their pc usage). Those people talk after leaving and I knew I had a good shot at not doing repairs due to my part switches. I sold a lot of PC Power & Cooling PSU's with the difference from some overpriced parts. Those were awesome PSU's back then that NEVER came back and still today (I'm running a red silencer 750CF right now to match my AMD card..LOL). Selling the truth doesn't hurt you if done right. Even for the very few who didn't bite and just decided to take my savings I sold them on, they still held a very high opinion of me and I saw them or family members of theirs many times later over the years (free advertisement). My customers KNEW my name, my certs, skills etc. It was personal, not just some dude handing you a part and cashing you out. It wasn't a sales pitch, rather it was always a DATA based pitch if something needed changed.

When the economy finally shows the tanking is done I'll go back to doing it again in the state I live in now assuming they don't completely crash the dollar causing a depression (only a few trillion in debt from that probably). I already know what works, keeps customers happy and keeps me from fixing crap I never wanted to sell to begin with.

Also my findings over the years were pretty much spot on with that retailer french or not, super huge or not 😉 In a forum like this retail shop owners/techs etc who you don't know are not here making money from telling you the truth. Odds are nobody we know would even see our comment. My customers weren't sitting at home reading forums or even reviews on these sites, they expected me to do it and point it out for them when buying. They knew I was doing it all the time. I'm not even in business right now...LOL. No reason to lie to anyone about what I found to be lacking or what I've experienced. I think the large french retailer was probably tired of fixing certain stuff (or getting grief for bad stuff) and was hoping the data would have an effect. The top brands don't rebate the crap out of their products because the best sells itself gererally. There were not many PC Power & Cooling sales...LOL I had to buy volume to get any savings.

Without "whistleblowers" we'd be a lot worse off in many things (**cough surveillance cough** - VA, GM killing us with cars, Bergdahl deserter being traded for 5 taliban LEADERS etc)... 😉 Would you buy any of the top failure rated boards? I'd happily buy a lower failure rated one with tons of reviews backing what we see/hear from retailers/techs. It's funny you dislike having the data in the open and are immediately skeptical (employee of one that got shafted by the data?). If the data wasn't lining up with what I knew I would be skeptical too, but it does line up with what I knew back then and still see today in forums, etc. No sample set can represent the entire public, it just gives you an idea of what is going on in more than your house. But failure rates are quite a bit more accurate than public opinion in say politics or something (which can easily be swayed by a lying liberal media), as the data here is just that, data. People in france might know who it was that outed that data too. If you said a large american online seller it might be amazon or newegg etc. The RMA data I got from distributors wasn't attempting to sell me anything (it came from friends who never tried to sell me much of anything-they knew I already knew what I wanted), it was just food for thought and in return I gave them advice for high-end custom clients they had (people I couldn't touch with such big orders, I couldn't build 1000-10000 PC's for an order). Nothing nefarious, just good data I could capitalize on, and good advice they could use to keep high-end customers happy. You can make money either way with the data, it's just how you want to run your business (many sold the crap anyway) and how many problems you can deal with be it from parts or people.
 
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I had regrets buying an MSI Z87 - G45 gaming motherboard yesterday. Fresh from the box, it can't detect USB flashdrives, onboard audio doesn't work properly and it doesn't allow me to install the ethernet drivers. If updating the bios can't fix this, I'll switch to Gigabyte.
 
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If you switch make sure you get z97 as many models are available for the same prices on newegg etc. No point in Z87 today unless you're dead and z97 isn't available where you live or something.

I know they have higher failure rates on msi, but this is kind of odd. That's a lot of crap wrong with it.

Are we talking IN windows for all these things? Sounds like you need to load chipset drivers first (always do this first, or the pc can't communicate with the OS for much else) and all other drivers after this. Get the latest from MSI site. The ones MS loads for these are useless for new boards so get the real things from MSI or your disc has ones that came with the board you can use to get up and running in all cases here. Then go get updates just in case the board was on the shelf for a while and has new versions on the website. USB drivers are probably the same story.

If that doesn't help above, are you sure it wasn't caused by ESD? I wear latex esd gloves, wrist strap and have a psu plug chopped off for grounding (overkill on the last one, but who cares it's seconds to plug in)...LOL. Paranoid but I never have issues. On my personal builds at home (that previous was for others) you'll even catch me in my underwear and NOT on any carpet on top of what I said for others...ROFL.

I watched a guy blow 3 nics in an hour trying to get a network setup in a DEC shop. He finally left and I told the boss to go get 3 more and set it up within minutes of them arriving (back in the good ole IRQ fun days). Of course the boss asked what happened & after explaining what happened he fired the other guy from the job (contractor) and never called him back 😉 That was the worst place I'd ever worked for pc work. That carpet would light your A$$ up. I mean you'd walk across the room and give yourself a major jolt just touching a cd drive eject button or pc power button etc...ROFL. You would SEE the fire that caused your pain. I saw that same guy hop around with 256/512MB ECC modules for Dell servers etc (back then $500-1000+ typical for each!) without a care in the world though admittedly on tile etc. Not much carpet at the other place he worked. But still, he kind of mocked me when I asked if he was worried about it - "It's not mine and it's really not an issue...LOL - even if I blow it, it's job security"...SAY WHAT? He learned nothing from the carpet experience I guess but I don't think anyone ever told him what I'd said or that I fixed it easily (cad/proe people were there for the whole thing, I had to fix it). It wasn't a hatchet job I just answered the boss. I blew a cheapo module running down carpeted stairs in a hurry once and never forgot that. It worked at the top of the stairs seconds before I did it. oops...

Also note on the page for your board, one bios update back they mention USB compatibility improvements, so maybe you really need a bios update and that's it (they never mention everything they fix sadly, too afraid to admit it probably if it's a lot of issues). Latest was 2/2014 the usb one a bit older. Go for the latest 1.7 version :) Or does your board already show it on 1.7? In that case if drivers don't work (chipset first) then I guess RMA with that many things wrong. There is a ton of drivers on that page for your board. Chipset, USB3 intel, nic drivers (killer nic), Intel RST, audio and more. But your disc should have at least functional ones to get you up if needed then go to the website.

Hope that helps. Not sure what your experience is, so don't take offense to the above if you are a tech or something. I have no idea here if you are, my apologies if you knew all that :) Surely someone will get some use out of it 😉

 
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