Question Multi boot system, change default boot order

[frusubilam]

I have 3 internal drives with identical OS partitions. I have recently changed the names and boot display order with the following commands (identifiers included)

C:\WINDOWS\system32>bcdedit /set {current} description "Windows 1"
C:\WINDOWS\system32>bcdedit /set {identifier} description "Windows 2"
C:\WINDOWS\system32>bcdedit /set {identifier} description "Windows 2"

bcdedit /displayorder {current} {identifier} {identifier}

to change things from this

Macrium imposed boot priotiy

MSCONFIG MACRIUM CHANGE

to this

NAME CHANGE AND ORDER

MSCONFIG

To maintain things, I was told elsewhere, that in the future, when using Macrium to do an Image restore, only restore the OS partition.

I did so, and the disk that was restored would not boot up.

The easy "fix" or workaround, for me at least, after a common 4 partition Macrium image restore, is to go into the Macrium recovery environment, choose which disk to boot with, after which when you exit all disks will again be bootable.

The problem here is that, this "fix" also completely reverses the name and boot order changes, to what they were before the changes were made.

That is what we see in the first and second images above, i.e. the default, "Windows 10, on Volume 16", is actually "Windows 3" (the disk with the lowest boot priority) in the second set of images, where "Windows 1" (Windows 10, Volume 3) is now the default.

Unless I have somehow unwittingly set this as some kind of default in Macrium, my only "guess" is that Macrium is being guided from the BIOS?

How can I process things to change the Macrium behavior in this particular case?

I just read this thread, and it mentions changing/switching what is now my my Windows 1 and Windows 2 ssd SATA connectors. I did so some time ago to make my "secondary" into the "primary" to preserve wear and tear on the previous default disk.

https://forums.tomshardware.com/thr...disk-becomes-boot-disk.3834553/#post-23187575

 

[USAFRet]

Please show us a screencap of your Disk Management window.
The whole thing, top and bottom sections.

 

[frusubilam]

 

[USAFRet]

So...
The issue is that the boot partition lives on Disk 0, the second partition.
That holds the boot info for all 3 drives.

If I may ask...why the 3? They look to be identical.

 

[frusubilam]

Considering you signature advice, I think you might appreciated It's simply about image and data redundancy, backup, tho it's not necessarily conventional.

Disks 2 & 3 are hard drives from my old computer. When I added the ssd's, I just j keep the the hard drives as well.

Macrium images from Disk 0 are restored to the other boot disks.

For protection purposes. DIsks 1 & 3 are manually disconnected when backups are not being performed,.

"The issue is that the boot partition lives on Disk 0, the second partition."

Please expand on that.

 

[USAFRet]

Thats what I suspected.

Direct, semi bootable clones are not really the pathway to "backups" and redundancy.
It leads to confusion like this.

There are much better ways to do this.

Regarding the boot partition, if you were to physically disconnect Disk 0, the system would not be able to boot from the others, no matter what is on them.
(I could be wrong, tho)


If you look at the L and D partitions, they are just 'Basic Data Partition"

Which OS is this?
40GB is really too small for the OS partition. That can lead to other problems.

 

[USAFRet]

I would use Macrium, and create an Image of the C drive off on one of the other 2.
Not a mostly clone.

That results in a single file, and leaves the rest of that drive fully usable.
And no confusion about what to boot from.

 

[frusubilam]

Sorry, please read my edited post.

This is what I image



The only problem I'm experiencing is Macriums confusion about which disk to appoint as boot default, which, before I dd the nane and display changes, was remedied by changing the default OS in the Windows recovery environment, after exiting the Macrium recovery enviroment

Are you saaying that somehow the last OS partition to have an image restore becomes the default, as far as Macrium is concerned?

I had the impression that the EFI parttion controlled these sorts of things. As i mentioned earlier, due to advice i received elsewhere, I restored only the OS partion from the Macrium image (not a clone) to the other OS's, with the resulting boot breakage,and I dealt with it in the Macrium environment, but it reverses all the changes as I discussed.

It reverts back to the same order every time. That seems like a pattern whose source can be tracked doen and dealt with

When I have all disks connected, I can boot to any of them. I haven't done it in a while, but If I were to disconnect Disk 0, I believe I could make any of the other two "active" in the Macrium recovery environment by simplly picking one of them to boot from.

"40GB is really too small for the OS partition. That can lead to other problems"

Not in my case. I only put stuff I put on my OS partition if it does not have a portable alternative, which means I have very few items installed.

I've been operating with this 40gb partition for years, and I've still got over 15gb free space. If it ever gets to the point where I need more room, I'll extend it.

Not to mention, my Macrium image backups are are only about 18gb in size. That's a major space saver when you have multiple saved images.

 

[USAFRet]

To maintain things, I was told elsewhere, that in the future, when using Macrium to do an Image restore, only restore the OS partition.

You also needed the EFI partition.

ANd, unless you bought a really crappy 3rd rate drive, "wear and tear" on an SSD has not been a thing for a decade or so.

 

[USAFRet]

Also, with any backup procedure, we test before we need it.

Simulate the physical death of Disk 0:
Power off
Physically disconnect Disk 0 and 1.
Does the system boot from the one remaining drive?

 

[frusubilam]

You also needed the EFI partition.

ANd, unless you bought a really crappy 3rd rate drive, "wear and tear" on an SSD has not been a thing for a decade or so.

Except for the last time i did the restore, except when taking the dubious advice I received elsewhere, I always do the 4 partitions.

I don"t have boot problems. I have a Macrium problem, or let's call it an annoyance. That's my focus.

I use Crystal Disk Info. It reported the Disk was at 98%. I simply decided to give it a nap., and let the other identical ssd take over.

 

[USAFRet]

Except for the last time i did the restore, except when taking the dubious advice I received elsewhere, I always do the 4 partitions.

And all 4 partitions is a GoodThing.

The problem lies in what the boot info thinks it should be booting from. 1, 2, or 3.

I am uncertain of how to "fix" this, except for abandoning that multiple identical drives concept, and going to an Image for the backups.

Maybe someone else will chime in.

 

[frusubilam]

What it comes down to is I'm basically trying to make things more efficient, and correct an idiosyncrasy. which has thus far no explanation, and, just specualting, who knows what other as yet undiscovered problems it may cause.

Call me lazy, but in order to do a Macium restore procedure, it must be done in Windows, from whichever is the the default boot drive, but If I want to restore to the boot drive, one of the others must be made default, at least temporarily, and the procedure must be done from there, unless it is done in the Macrium recovery environment.

It'e just does the job faster in Windows, and I can work on other things while it's in the process, less complicated, than booting into Macrium and waiting however long it takes in there to complete.

 

[USAFRet]

Call me lazy, but in order to do a Macium restore procedure, it must be done in Windows, from whichever is the the default boot drive,

No.

You can create a RescueUSB, boot from that, and do whatever recovery you need.

Having to boot from the original OS drive wouldn't do much good if that drive were physically broken. Which is one of the main reasons you'd need to do this.

 

[frusubilam]

Respectfully, I don't see what that has to do with the substance of the subject at hand.

First of all, we're talking about under normal circumstances, and I've explained my reasoning.

I have a Macrium boot recovery usb, and dvd, if needed, in an emergency, but I don't need them, under normal circumstances, to get into the Macrium boot recovery environment.

And I don't need to get into the Macrium environment to do an image restore, unless I need to temporarily change the default boot disk, which brings us full circle back to the heart of my inquiry.

Which is, once I do that default boot disk change, Macriun reverses the names and boot manager default display order changes when I do that boot default change in the Macrium environment.

This is about where Macrium is deriving it's information from, and what can be done about it.

 

[USAFRet]

And as noted, I am completely unsure of how to fix or manage your situation, because I don't use Macrium like that.
Nor have have multiple identical copies of my OS drive.

As said, maybe someone else will chime in.

 

[frusubilam]

Thanks for your time. Much appreciated.

 

[TerryLaze]

Macrium will restore things to the way they are in the backups, if you change the boot menu afterwards of course it will not be restored.
You have to back up/put the changes into new macrium image(s)

Alternatively you can use the free version of easybcd to backup and restore your boot menu every time you do a macrium restore.

 

[frusubilam]

Macrium will restore things to the way they are in the backups, if you change the boot menu afterwards of course it will not be restored.
You have to back up/put the changes into new macrium image(s)

Alternatively you can use the free version of easybcd to backup and restore your boot menu every time you do a macrium restore.

Thanks, but my issues has nothing to do with images restoring. Please re-read the details of my comments.

I'll repeat once again, I am not experiencing boot problems. This is a Macrium generated/related issue.

 

[TerryLaze]

Thanks, but my issues has nothing to do with images restoring. Please re-read the details of my comments.

I'll repeat once again, I am not experiencing boot problems. This is a Macrium generated/related issue.

You change the boot menu
you only clone the partition you want and not the partition that has the boot menu on it
you get a no boot situation

"The problem here is that, this "fix" also completely reverses the name and boot order changes, to what they were before the changes were made."

Your options are to do clone the partition with the boot menu so that it will be restored when cloning with macrium or to do a backup/restore with easybcd, probably you could also do this with MS commands using the normal bcdstore commands.

 

[frusubilam]

You change the boot menu
you only clone the partition you want and not the partition that has the boot menu on it
you get a no boot situation

"The problem here is that, this "fix" also completely reverses the name and boot order changes, to what they were before the changes were made."

Your options are to do clone the partition with the boot menu so that it will be restored when cloning with macrium or to do a backup/restore with easybcd, probably you could also do this with MS commands using the normal bcdstore commands.

I'm embarrased to take up so much time and space here because I'm not clearly getting the point across. I'm finding that this apparently unique situation is a bit quirky to grasp,

As I said, I don't have a boot problem. Except for this one time, I always do a typical 4 partiition Macrium restore.

It is a simple, albeit inconvenient/time consuming proicedure to "fix" the Macrium boot breakage, in either scenario, which I don't care to keep repeating, but that's what I am looking forward to if it can't be figured out.

I mentioned that I initially got some info elsewhere, including how to change the names and boot manager order. It was explained to me that I had "three" boot managers, and I was better off with only one. Less complications or confusion. It was supposed to be the foundation for altering the way Macrium undoes the name and display changes.

Bottom line is something, somewhere, is misconfigured, to the extent that Macrium somehow "thinks" that the boot default, names and display chages it re-creates are the way things are supposed to be.

The mystery is where is Macrium getting it's instructions? Is it Macrium's internal settings that have been altered? Is it the BIOS? Elsewhere?

 

[USAFRet]

The myster is where is Macrium getting it's instructions? Is it internal settings that have been altered? Is it the BIOS?

A Macrium Image only gathers the state of the system as it was when the Image was created.
It does not, can not, change things on its own.

Any changes after that, and a restoration of that initial Image will screw things up.

 

[frusubilam]

A Macrium Image only gathers the state of the system as it was when the Image was created.
It does not, can not, change things on its own.

Any changes after that, and a restoration of that initial Image will screw things up.

I never said it did or could. But it does execute the orders it is given

Screw things up? Please explain. How, unless you mean it will nullify any changes made before the restoration of the initial image, which is generally why a restoration is executed in the first place, is it not? To go back to a place where certain problematic behavior(s) did not exist?

You can always create an image of the current state of the OS if you want to return to it, warts and all. if that's the case,

I repeat. The underlying question is "where is Macrium getting it's instructions?"

According to you, it's getting them from the system. I agree. Precisely what I am asserting.

Unless Macrium has some bug that needs to be addressed, and I'm assuming that's not the case. With that in mind, if we discover, and alter, those "system" settings to suit our preferences, therefore Macrium should perform it's duties as we expect.

Then, we creats an image to reflect those changes.

 

[USAFRet]

I repeat. The underlying question is "where is Macrium getting it's instructions?"

According to you, it's getting them from the system. I agree. Precisely what I am asserting.

AFAIK, its not getting "instructions" from anywhere.

It is making a copy/image/clone of the state of the drive at that moment.
Initially, a VSS. Volume Shadow Copy Service.
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/storage/file-server/volume-shadow-copy-service

This is what allows Macrium to create an Image or a Clone od a running OS.

 

[frusubilam]

I don't have a boot problem.

"It is making a copy/image/clone of the state of the drive at that moment"

You've construcrted an irrelevant narrative . How did image creation enter into this conversation?

I don't have any problem with creating or restoring images.

But It's understandable if someone is unfamiliar dealing with a multiboot system in this way, it's probably hard to visualize.

What I'm talking about occurs before the restore operation. It's a basic preparation for doing a restore within the Macrium app in Windows, from one disk to another (as opposed to doing a restore within the Macrium recovery environment), that has absolutely nothing to do with the restore operation itself, or with the content or integrity of the image that is itself being restored.