Multi-Oust Question

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This came up about three weeks ago, and while I was given an answer to
the question "What the hell happens now?" at the time, I have since
been given another answer. Additionally, the rulebook is a little
vague on the point, so here's the situation:

I call Ancilla Empowerment. My prey is at one pool with two minions.
My grandprey is at three pool with three minions. My great-grandprey
is at five pool with five minions. The vote goes to referendum and
subsequently passes. Three people are ousted. How many victory points
and pool do I get?

Many thanks in advance.

TTFn
 
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"The Kaiser" <aleistre@stny.rr.com> wrote in message news:1117855134.842540.213700@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> This came up about three weeks ago, and while I was given an answer to
> the question "What the hell happens now?" at the time, I have since
> been given another answer. Additionally, the rulebook is a little
> vague on the point, so here's the situation:
>
> I call Ancilla Empowerment. My prey is at one pool with two minions.
> My grandprey is at three pool with three minions. My great-grandprey
> is at five pool with five minions. The vote goes to referendum and
> subsequently passes. Three people are ousted. How many victory points
> and pool do I get?

One victory point and six pool - unless there are only four players in
the game when this happens, in which case you get two victory points
and pool count would cease to be relevant.

Your prey would get one victory point but be ousted herself before she
could take advantage of the pool gain. Your grandprey would be in a
similar situation.

Fred
 
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Ah, now I see. I read the relevant portion of the rules, but in my
typical self absorbed manner, I was like "Whatever...that doesn't apply
because *I* wasn't ousted at the same time as my prey." But now as I
look a little closer, I see it does have a some relevance after all.
Incidentally, I think I liked the 18 pool and 3 VP that I got when it
happened better =). Oh well. Thanks again!

TTFn
 
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On 3 Jun 2005 20:18:55 -0700, "The Kaiser" <aleistre@stny.rr.com>
wrote:

>This came up about three weeks ago, and while I was given an answer to
>the question "What the hell happens now?" at the time, I have since
>been given another answer. Additionally, the rulebook is a little
>vague on the point, so here's the situation:

>I call Ancilla Empowerment. My prey is at one pool with two minions.
>My grandprey is at three pool with three minions. My great-grandprey
>is at five pool with five minions. The vote goes to referendum and
>subsequently passes. Three people are ousted. How many victory points
>and pool do I get?

1 vp and 6 pool, unless that leaves you as the only Methuselah in the
game, for which you would receive a second vp.

Your prey gets 1 vp and your grand prey gets 1 vp.


http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulebook/


9. Ending the Game
9.1. Victory Points
When a Methuselah runs out of pool counters, she is ousted from the
game. If you are ousted, all the cards you control are burned. Any of
your opponents’ cards you control are placed in their respective
owners’ ash heaps (see Important Terms in the Game, sec. 1.1). Any of
your cards controlled by other Methuselahs remain in play as normal
(see The Golden Rule of Card Ownership, sec. 1.3). The game continues
until only one Methuselah is left. You get a victory point whenever
the Methuselah who is your prey is ousted (no matter how or by whom
your prey was ousted). You receive an additional victory point if you
are the last player left. At the end of the game, the winner is the
player with the most victory points, even if she has been ousted.
Along with a victory point, you gain six pool from the blood bank when
your prey is ousted.

EXCEPTION: If a player is ousted at the same time that her prey is
ousted, the player gets the victory point but does not gain 6 pool.








Carpe noctem.

Lasombra

http://www.TheLasombra.com
Your best online source for information about V:TES.
Now also featuring individual card sales and sales
of booster and starter box displays.
 
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On 3 Jun 2005 20:18:55 -0700, "The Kaiser" <aleistre@stny.rr.com>
wrote:

>I call Ancilla Empowerment. My prey is at one pool with two minions.
>My grandprey is at three pool with three minions. My great-grandprey
>is at five pool with five minions. The vote goes to referendum and
>subsequently passes. Three people are ousted. How many victory points
>and pool do I get?
>Many thanks in advance.
>TTFn

Adding fuel to the fire. We already know that in multi-oust
situations, a Methuselah who ousts more than one "subsequent prey" at
once does NOT get extra VPs for that. He just gets 1 Vp for ousting
his prey and 6 pool (leaving final VP for last man standing aside).

But I'm not sure about the timing of this situation that a player
asked me...

Player A -> Player B -> Player C
Player B has 1 pool. C has 5.
Player A bleeds for 5 at stealth. B bounces it to C. C announces he
can't block, reduce, bounce or whatever and is taking the bleed.
Player A plays a Spying Mission to "save" C.

If player B uses DI to cancel that Spying Mission, what happens?

- B pays for the Direct Intervention and is ousted before the bleed
for 5 resolves, or

- B pays for the Direct Intervention and is ousted at the same time as
C - the bleed was already successful when Spying Mission was played,
so C was already "being ousted" when Spying Mission + DI were played

best,

Fabio "Sooner" Macedo
V:TES National Coordinator for Brazil
Giovanni Newsletter Editor
-----------------------------------------------------
V for Vendetta on the big screen!
http://vforvendetta.warnerbros.com/
 
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"Fabio "Sooner"" <fabio_sooner@NOSPAMyahoo.com.br> wrote in message
news:np79a1198srt559te6qgar2c1gcl2injr4@4ax.com...
> Adding fuel to the fire. We already know that in multi-oust
> situations, a Methuselah who ousts more than one "subsequent prey" at
> once does NOT get extra VPs for that. He just gets 1 Vp for ousting
> his prey and 6 pool (leaving final VP for last man standing aside).
>
> But I'm not sure about the timing of this situation that a player
> asked me...
>
> Player A -> Player B -> Player C
> Player B has 1 pool. C has 5.
> Player A bleeds for 5 at stealth. B bounces it to C. C announces he
> can't block, reduce, bounce or whatever and is taking the bleed.
> Player A plays a Spying Mission to "save" C.
>
> If player B uses DI to cancel that Spying Mission, what happens?
>
> - B pays for the Direct Intervention and is ousted before the bleed
> for 5 resolves, or
>
> - B pays for the Direct Intervention and is ousted at the same time as
> C - the bleed was already successful when Spying Mission was played,
> so C was already "being ousted" when Spying Mission + DI were played

My guess: the former. B must pay for the Direct Intervention immediately
if C doesn't Sudden Reverse it (who cares why). But then the resolution
of the action goes on. If there were another way to save C at this point
with a different action modifier, A could then play it, possibly evoking
a DI from C (again, no matter why). C could play Extremis Boon. Other
things could happen. Point is, life goes on for at least a short space
of time between when B must pay for the DI attempt and when C is actually
ousted.

Again, just my guess. Once in a while, I'm actually right about rules
questions.

Fred
 
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On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 12:45:39 -0700, "Frederick Scott"
<nospam@no.spam.dot.com> wrote:

>"Fabio "Sooner"" <fabio_sooner@NOSPAMyahoo.com.br> wrote in message
>news:np79a1198srt559te6qgar2c1gcl2injr4@4ax.com...
>> Adding fuel to the fire. We already know that in multi-oust
>> situations, a Methuselah who ousts more than one "subsequent prey" at
>> once does NOT get extra VPs for that. He just gets 1 Vp for ousting
>> his prey and 6 pool (leaving final VP for last man standing aside).
>>
>> But I'm not sure about the timing of this situation that a player
>> asked me...
>>
>> Player A -> Player B -> Player C
>> Player B has 1 pool. C has 5.
>> Player A bleeds for 5 at stealth. B bounces it to C. C announces he
>> can't block, reduce, bounce or whatever and is taking the bleed.
>> Player A plays a Spying Mission to "save" C.
>>
>> If player B uses DI to cancel that Spying Mission, what happens?
>>
>> - B pays for the Direct Intervention and is ousted before the bleed
>> for 5 resolves, or
>>
>> - B pays for the Direct Intervention and is ousted at the same time as
>> C - the bleed was already successful when Spying Mission was played,
>> so C was already "being ousted" when Spying Mission + DI were played
>
>My guess: the former. B must pay for the Direct Intervention immediately
>if C doesn't Sudden Reverse it (who cares why). But then the resolution
>of the action goes on. If there were another way to save C at this point
>with a different action modifier, A could then play it, possibly evoking
>a DI from C (again, no matter why). C could play Extremis Boon. Other
>things could happen. Point is, life goes on for at least a short space
>of time between when B must pay for the DI attempt and when C is actually
>ousted.
>Again, just my guess. Once in a while, I'm actually right about rules
>questions.
>Fred

Let me be the first to say you're right, Fred :) One of the local
Princes e-mailed the question to LSJ before I've posted this question
in here, and he already received the answer.

It's like that: if other action modifier who did the same as Spying
Mission existed, A would have the chance to play it, so B is ousted
before C.

best,


Fabio "Sooner" Macedo
V:TES National Coordinator for Brazil
Giovanni Newsletter Editor
-----------------------------------------------------
V for Vendetta on the big screen!
http://vforvendetta.warnerbros.com/
 
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> >> If player B uses DI to cancel that Spying Mission, what happens?

I think B is ousted and all his cards are burned (including DI) as soon
as he has 0 pool, meaning Spying Mission would still take effect (as it
was not cancelled).

If I remember correctly, that is. Which I might not. LSJ?

-- Brian
 
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Fabio "Sooner" wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 12:45:39 -0700, "Frederick Scott"
>>"Fabio "Sooner"" <fabio_sooner@NOSPAMyahoo.com.br> wrote in message
>>>Adding fuel to the fire. We already know that in multi-oust
>>>situations, a Methuselah who ousts more than one "subsequent prey" at
>>>once does NOT get extra VPs for that. He just gets 1 Vp for ousting
>>>his prey and 6 pool (leaving final VP for last man standing aside).
>>>
>>>But I'm not sure about the timing of this situation that a player
>>>asked me...
>>>
>>>Player A -> Player B -> Player C
>>>Player B has 1 pool. C has 5.
>>>Player A bleeds for 5 at stealth. B bounces it to C. C announces he
>>>can't block, reduce, bounce or whatever and is taking the bleed.
>>>Player A plays a Spying Mission to "save" C.
>>>
>>>If player B uses DI to cancel that Spying Mission, what happens?
>>>
>>>- B pays for the Direct Intervention and is ousted before the bleed
>>>for 5 resolves, or
>>>
>>>- B pays for the Direct Intervention and is ousted at the same time as
>>>C - the bleed was already successful when Spying Mission was played,
>>>so C was already "being ousted" when Spying Mission + DI were played
>>
>>My guess: the former. B must pay for the Direct Intervention immediately
>>if C doesn't Sudden Reverse it (who cares why). But then the resolution
>>of the action goes on. If there were another way to save C at this point
>>with a different action modifier, A could then play it, possibly evoking
>>a DI from C (again, no matter why). C could play Extremis Boon. Other
>>things could happen. Point is, life goes on for at least a short space
>>of time between when B must pay for the DI attempt and when C is actually
>>ousted.
>>Again, just my guess. Once in a while, I'm actually right about rules
>>questions.
>>Fred
>
>
> Let me be the first to say you're right, Fred :) One of the local
> Princes e-mailed the question to LSJ before I've posted this question
> in here, and he already received the answer.
>
> It's like that: if other action modifier who did the same as Spying
> Mission existed, A would have the chance to play it, so B is ousted
> before C.

Correct.

--
LSJ (vtesrepSPAM@TRAPwhite-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep (remove spam trap to reply)
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
 
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firstconformist@aol.com wrote:
> > >> If player B uses DI to cancel that Spying Mission, what happens?
>
> I think B is ousted and all his cards are burned (including DI) as soon
> as he has 0 pool, meaning Spying Mission would still take effect (as it
> was not cancelled).
>
> If I remember correctly, that is. Which I might not. LSJ?
>
> -- Brian

I wouldn't think so, as DI is not put into play. I guess it resolves
immediately when player B pays for it, so Spying Mission is actually
cancelled. Then B is ousted and C would be too, right after B.

That brings out another question, which I think I know the answer to,
but would like to be sure. Does the fact that A played SM (requires a
bleed that would be successful) means that C is actually taking the
bleed after SM is cancelled? I mean, the window for C to play
Deflection or the like is over now, right?

Regards,

Luiz Mello
 
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Clément wrote:
> That brings out another question, which I think I know the answer to,
> but would like to be sure. Does the fact that A played SM (requires a
> bleed that would be successful) means that C is actually taking the
> bleed after SM is cancelled? I mean, the window for C to play
> Deflection or the like is over now, right?

Yes.

--
LSJ (vtesrepSPAM@TRAPwhite-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep (remove spam trap to reply)
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
 

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