Question My I5-9600KF is getting me worse performance than my I3-8100

playzxbox

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I recently upgraded from an I3-8100 to a I5-9600KF and on average I get 3 fps worse in games compared to when I was using the I3-8100. I updated my bios before installing the new cpu and used a way better cooler this time around instead of the stock cooler that came with the i3. I should also point out that no matter what I do I can't get the cpu to turbo above 4.3 ghz. Full rig specs are as follows:
Gpu: 8gb Rx 580 Saphire nitro+
Cpu: I5-9600KF
Mobo: Asrock B360M-HDV
Ram: 16GB 2400 mhz DDR4 Ripjaw Gskill gaming ram
PSU: OCZ ModXStream Pro 700 Watt
HDD: 230 gb kingston nvme drive, 1tb Barracuda HDD, 2tb Firecuda HDD
OS: Windows 10
 

playzxbox

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Which game(s) and what resolution?
OopsI should of included my monitor in the specs, I use a 1080p Acer 144 hz gaming monitor so I run all my games at 1080p, Games i've tested so far are Witcher 3, I get 3-4 fps worse running the game fully maxed out than I was before. Shadow of the tomb raider fully maxed out in DX 12 I get 42 fps on average compared to 44 with the i3 8100, strangely enough running it fully maxed in DX 11 I get 37 fps average which is what I would get using the i3 8100. RDR2 I play on a mix of high medium and would get on average 60 fps with lows of 40s in highly populated areas with the i3, I still get an average of 60fps but now Ill dip down to 38-39 in highly populated areas.
 

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TJ Hooker

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Herald
Hmm, everything looks normal there. It could just be as geofelt suggested; if you were already GPU limited with your old CPU you wouldn't see much performance difference with a new one. I know Witcher 3 is pretty GPU heavy, and I think I've seen reports about RDR2 having performance issues in general (although maybe those are supposedly resolved by now).
 

playzxbox

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It sounds like you're only seeing a difference of a couple FPS. That's probably within the margin of error, such that you could treat your old and new performance as being essentially the same.
Alright thanks for explaining this, I did look at some old posts about Newer cpus performing poorer than expected and the general accepted answer was to do a fresh install of windows. Would this do anything to fix my issue or is it just that my gpu can't perform any higher than it already is?
 

TJ Hooker

Glorious
Herald
Alright thanks for explaining this, I did look at some old posts about Newer cpus performing poorer than expected and the general accepted answer was to do a fresh install of windows. Would this do anything to fix my issue or is it just that my gpu can't perform any higher than it already is?
Hmm, If you had also changed motherboard I'd definitely recommend a clean install, but I wouldn't necessarily for just a CPU change. It certainly wouldn't hurt, but obviously it's a bit of a hassle.

If you wanted to test it out before you commit to a complete reinstall you could do a fresh install on a new partition/2nd drive (leaving your current installation alone) and install the bare minimum (drivers and a game or two) to see if it improves. If yes, proceed to completely replace your old installation with a clean install. If not, just wipe the new partition/install you made.
 

playzxbox

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Hmm, If you had also changed motherboard I'd definitely recommend a clean install, but I wouldn't necessarily for just a CPU change. It certainly wouldn't hurt, but obviously it's a bit of a hassle.

If you wanted to test it out before you commit to a complete reinstall you could do a fresh install on a new partition/2nd drive (leaving your current installation alone) and install the bare minimum (drivers and a game or two) to see if it improves. If yes, proceed to completely replace your old installation with a clean install. If not, just wipe the new partition/install you made.
Thanks, Ill leave this as a last resort because as you said it is a pain. Only other question I have is that this cpu turbos to 4.7 ghz but I've not been able to get it to turbo above 4.3. Would a fresh install of windows fix this issue, or is this another problem entirely?
 

Karadjgne

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Herald
Have you reset bios/cmos since the addition of the new cpu?

That psu is ancient, group regulated and seriously not doing you any favors at all. It didn't even rank as mediocre back when it was new, 10 years ago and far less so now. I'd not be surprised if the outputs are so out of whack the cpu can't remain stable enough to actually boost to its full potential and the VRM's going nuts.

However, once we open the unit we find that OCZ 700W ModXStream Pro looks very much like a cheap group regulated unit. This is further compounded by the fact that the unit has some questionable component selections in the mystery "Rec" capacitors. Good capacitors only add slightly to the total cost of a unit so why even something along the lines of Samxon or at the very least Teapo was excluded from this build is bewildering. Further, the unit only features a 3 year warranty and with questionable capacitors this is hardly reassuring.
 
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playzxbox

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Have you reset bios/cmos since the addition of the new cpu?

That psu is ancient, group regulated and seriously not doing you any favors at all. It didn't even rank as mediocre back when it was new, 10 years ago and far less so now. I'd not be surprised if the outputs are so out of whack the cpu can't remain stable enough to actually boost to its full potential and the VRM's going nuts.
I reset the bios when I first upgraded it before installing the new cpu. I built this rig around 10 years ago and besides my case the psu is the only original part that still remains, I had no idea that it was/is so poorly rated. What exactly do you mean by group regulated? Could the unit itself possibly damage my rig? and also what is VRM?
 
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TJ Hooker

Glorious
Herald
Only other question I have is that this cpu turbos to 4.7 ghz but I've not been able to get it to turbo above 4.3. Would a fresh install of windows fix this issue, or is this another problem entirely?
Max turbo is 4.6 GHz, but that only for a single core. 4.3 GHz is the all core turbo. You can try running Cinebench with only 1 thread running to see if you get 4.5-4.6 GHz, but overall I wouldn't be too concerned.
 
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Karadjgne

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Herald
Ouch, a 10 year old OCZ. Wow. It still runs.
Umm ok, try returning bios back to factory optimized default and reset cmos. You upgraded bios, that was perfect, but at that time you had the i3 for a cpu. Bios is considerably larger than the settings that you can see, there's a whole bunch that isn't visible and was setup for the i3 when you swapped. With the hardware change, many of those invisible and visible settings get revamped to seat the new hardware, but sometimes some of them don't, so resetting bios to factory default can fix many/most/all of those. In the event one or two are still resistant to change, resetting cmos forces bios to do a full and complete hardware search/test/settings reset that will not happen with a windows shutdown. Between both, you basically tell the pc that you are the boss, and it's going to play nice and accept the 9400kf fully whether it likes it or not.

There's 2 basic kinds of psus, the old and the new. The old are group regulated, the +5v and 12v rail are grouped and regulated together, the 3.3v rail is seperate. It's an old design, has issues with uber low power modes and can't put out anything close to rated wattage on 12v, meaning a 500w group regulated psu on 12v rail might see 450w-460w. With almost everything powered by 12v in modern pc's, it's a kick in the pants to get shortchanged so many watts.
The new are dc-dc, and single regulated, all the rails are seperate, so there's little to nothing of 1 affecting the others. This allows for the really low wattages required by Haswells and newer Intel sleep states, as well as what the Ryzens require. It also means that a 500w psu stands a really good chance of seeing 500w on the 12v rail, or at least 480-490w. Actually getting what you paid for.

If you equate group regulated as being analog and dc-dc as being digital, you'd not be far off.

Not to say group regulated psus are bad, there's still some very good examples out there, but with modern demands of cpus and gpus for nice clean power, those older psus are getting left behind.

My motor in my car puts out over 450HP and gets 22-23mpg. Back in the late 60's when it was first introduced, it barely hit over 300HP, and got 6-8mpg. Times change, carberator vrs fuel injection, advances in combustion chamber design etc. Great motor back then, way better now.

And you have a mediocre psu, with all its group regulated shortcomings, capacitor degradation, wear and tear, serious lack of good protective circuitry, on some very cheap and questionable components. The word time-bomb applies.

Strongly.

VRM's are part of the voltage regulatory circuitry that are under those heatsinks surrounding the socket. The cpu demands 1 voltage for one thing, another for something else, and several others for other things from the motherboard. All those voltages, like vcore for example, are sent from the motherboard through the voltage regulatory circuits to the cpu. A nice, clean voltage is easy to work with, doesn't require much adjustment by adding/subtracting current/amps etc. A dirty voltage has high amounts of ripple, lots of ups and downs, so requires a lot of work to smooth out, and can still bounce all over, putting a lot of stress on the VRM's and cpu, and is a major cause of instability leading to bsod. For absolutely no apparent reason. Mid game, bsod nt-kernal error.

To put it bluntly, when comparing a new, good quality psu to your current psu, instead of washing your car with a nice clean rag, you are using 80-grit sandpaper instead.

At 10 years old, you are well past advise to replace sooner or later, and we'll into you should have replaced it yesterday, last week would have been better.
 
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playzxbox

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Apr 22, 2018
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Ouch, a 10 year old OCZ. Wow. It still runs.
Umm ok, try returning bios back to factory optimized default and reset cmos. You upgraded bios, that was perfect, but at that time you had the i3 for a cpu. Bios is considerably larger than the settings that you can see, there's a whole bunch that isn't visible and was setup for the i3 when you swapped. With the hardware change, many of those invisible and visible settings get revamped to seat the new hardware, but sometimes some of them don't, so resetting bios to factory default can fix many/most/all of those. In the event one or two are still resistant to change, resetting cmos forces bios to do a full and complete hardware search/test/settings reset that will not happen with a windows shutdown. Between both, you basically tell the pc that you are the boss, and it's going to play nice and accept the 9400kf fully whether it likes it or not.

There's 2 basic kinds of psus, the old and the new. The old are group regulated, the +5v and 12v rail are grouped and regulated together, the 3.3v rail is seperate. It's an old design, has issues with uber low power modes and can't put out anything close to rated wattage on 12v, meaning a 500w group regulated psu on 12v rail might see 450w-460w. With almost everything powered by 12v in modern pc's, it's a kick in the pants to get shortchanged so many watts.
The new are dc-dc, and single regulated, all the rails are seperate, so there's little to nothing of 1 affecting the others. This allows for the really low wattages required by Haswells and newer Intel sleep states, as well as what the Ryzens require. It also means that a 500w psu stands a really good chance of seeing 500w on the 12v rail, or at least 480-490w. Actually getting what you paid for.

If you equate group regulated as being analog and dc-dc as being digital, you'd not be far off.

Not to say group regulated psus are bad, there's still some very good examples out there, but with modern demands of cpus and gpus for nice clean power, those older psus are getting left behind.

My motor in my car puts out over 450HP and gets 22-23mpg. Back in the late 60's when it was first introduced, it barely hit over 300HP, and got 6-8mpg. Times change, carberator vrs fuel injection, advances in combustion chamber design etc. Great motor back then, way better now.

And you have a mediocre psu, with all its group regulated shortcomings, capacitor degradation, wear and tear, serious lack of good protective circuitry, on some very cheap and questionable components. The word time-bomb applies.

Strongly.

VRM's are part of the voltage regulatory circuitry that are under those heatsinks surrounding the socket. The cpu demands 1 voltage for one thing, another for something else, and several others for other things from the motherboard. All those voltages, like vcore for example, are sent from the motherboard through the voltage regulatory circuits to the cpu. A nice, clean voltage is easy to work with, doesn't require much adjustment by adding/subtracting current/amps etc. A dirty voltage has high amounts of ripple, lots of ups and downs, so requires a lot of work to smooth out, and can still bounce all over, putting a lot of stress on the VRM's and cpu, and is a major cause of instability leading to bsod. For absolutely no apparent reason. Mid game, bsod nt-kernal error.

To put it bluntly, when comparing a new, good quality psu to your current psu, instead of washing your car with a nice clean rag, you are using 80-grit sandpaper instead.

At 10 years old, you are well past advise to replace sooner or later, and we'll into you should have replaced it yesterday, last week would have been better.
Wow thanks so much for the very detailed and in depth information. I’ll reset my bios to factory settings right now and then reset my cmos!
As for how this psu is still running I didn’t really game on pc for the longest time. I built this rig in either 2009/2010 as a high school project but never really used it regularly until 2012 stopping in 2013 and not touching again until 2017 as I was console gaming at the time, from 2018-2019 I’ve been using it almost every day putting very heavy hours in. I’ve never noticed any issues with it (the psu) but I do have a feeling that it will go pretty soon, so I’ll make replacing my psu priority number 1 in the mean time. As for your last sentence, do you mean that my other parts (gpu,mobo,ram etc) are already damaged?
 
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Karadjgne

Titan
Herald
Yes, no, maybe, I can't answer that. Nobody can. Not with any certainty. Your cpu is comprised of millions of microscopic transistors. Loosing 1 or 10 or 100 would not in any way you can measure be important or noticeable, until those 100 become 101 and starts affecting your ram inputs or throughput or vcore demands from the motherboard etc. It's a cascade thing like an avalanche can be started by a single snowflake. So you could have lost 100 or 1000 or none at all, same goes for anything that's powered, drives, gpu, ram, etc. The only thing a bad psu does for any certainty is seriously increase the risk, not just of damage or failure, a quiet death, but of catastrophic failure that has real consequences like burning down houses (that's a for real thing) as an extreme.
 

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