Question My Ryzen 7 3800x is not doing well...

playstation1868

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So, right to the point. My previous rig rocked a 7700 and a 1070. The new rig i just built rocks a 2080 super and a liquid cooled r7 3800x. Gaming performance is way worse on the new rig. Why? No clue. Cpu bottlenecking looks like the culprit.
 

CosmicDance

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Hi Playstation

Can you list your full system specs please so that people, including myself, can start to help you.
Also can you list -

  • which games you are you getting sub-standard performance with
  • what resolution you are playing them at
  • what framerates you are getting.
Your system is more powerful than mine so to give you an idea of what you should be achieving -
I run a Ryzen 3700x with an RTX 2070, 16 GB of RAM (2X 8 GB sticks) & a 60 HZ monitor and am impressed with the performance.

Battlefield V runs at 4K in mostly Ultra settings,
GTA V at Very High settings in 4K,
Far Cry 5 at 1440p Ultra settings,
The Division 2 at 1440p mostly High and Ultra settings.

Andy
 

playstation1868

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Hi Playstation

Can you list your full system specs please so that people, including myself, can start to help you.
Also can you list -

  • which games you are you getting sub-standard performance with
  • what resolution you are playing them at
  • what framerates you are getting.
Your system is more powerful than mine so to give you an idea of what you should be achieving -
I run a Ryzen 3700x with an RTX 2070, 16 GB of RAM (2X 8 GB sticks) & a 60 HZ monitor and am impressed with the performance.

Battlefield V runs at 4K in mostly Ultra settings,
GTA V at Very High settings in 4K,
Far Cry 5 at 1440p Ultra settings,
The Division 2 at 1440p mostly High and Ultra settings.

Andy
Can't help without the complete specs of your PC
Hello all! Sorry about the incomplete post, I will now be more descriptive. Here are my stats and specs according to steam:

Computer Information:
Manufacturer: System manufacturer
Model: System Product Name
Form Factor: Desktop
No Touch Input Detected

Processor Information:
CPU Vendor: AuthenticAMD
CPU Brand: AMD Ryzen 7 3800X 8-Core Processor
CPU Family: 0x17
CPU Model: 0x71
CPU Stepping: 0x0
CPU Type: 0x0
Speed: 3893 Mhz
16 logical processors
8 physical processors
HyperThreading: Supported
FCMOV: Supported
SSE2: Supported
SSE3: Supported
SSSE3: Supported
SSE4a: Supported
SSE41: Supported
SSE42: Supported
AES: Supported
AVX: Supported
CMPXCHG16B: Supported
LAHF/SAHF: Supported
PrefetchW: Unsupported

Operating System Version:
Windows 10 (64 bit)
NTFS: Supported
Crypto Provider Codes: Supported 311 0x0 0x0 0x0

Video Card:
Driver: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER
DirectX Driver Name: nvldumd.dll
Driver Version: 26.21.14.3602
DirectX Driver Version: 26.21.14.3602
Driver Date: 8 16 2019
OpenGL Version: 4.6
Desktop Color Depth: 32 bits per pixel
Monitor Refresh Rate: 143 Hz
DirectX Card: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER
VendorID: 0x10de
DeviceID: 0x1e81
Revision: 0xa1
Number of Monitors: 1
Number of Logical Video Cards: 1
No SLI or Crossfire Detected
Primary Display Resolution: 2560 x 1440
Desktop Resolution: 2560 x 1440
Primary Display Size: 23.54" x 13.23" (26.97" diag)
59.8cm x 33.6cm (68.5cm diag)
Primary Bus: PCI Express 16x
Primary VRAM: 8191 MB
Supported MSAA Modes: 2x 4x 8x

Sound card:
Audio device: Dell S2716DG (2- NVIDIA High De

Memory:
RAM: 16302 Mb

Miscellaneous:
UI Language: English
Media Type: Undetermined
Total Hard Disk Space Available: 3337865 Mb
Largest Free Hard Disk Block: 1879361 Mb
OS Install Date: Dec 31 1969
Game Controller: None detected
VR Headset: None detected

My RAM is clocked at 3600 Mhz and my GPU is running a modest MSI AB overclock to 2Ghz. These both function great! My Monitor is G-sync and 1440p at 144Hz. It is my CPU which boggles my mind. It never reaches its specified and advertised boosts. Never breaks 4.3. Seems locked at it in fact. My cooling is great and it is not throttling (60 degrees max under full gaming load). I have no idea what is holding my CPU back. It seemed like such a great performer in other peoples builds and in the trailers and mine? Just seems to be underwhelming. Any suggestions?
 
That last 100-200 MHz of advertised boost clock speed missing is not a cause for concern...

First question: was this a full fresh/clean install of Win10?

All required drivers installed?

Are you in Balanced or Performance mode within WInddows power plan? (In power plan, max processor usage state should be set to 100%)
 
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....
Driver: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER
...
That's a whole lotta over-kill. Just CPU, Motherboard, Memory, GPU and PSU models would suffice.

What's your motherboard and is BIOS up to date? How many memory DIMM's? are they installed in correct sockets for dual channel operation? Is your memory operating at rated transaction rate (at least)? Have you under-volted in BIOS in needless attempt to reduce temperature? which gimps processor performance by reducing effective clock speed.

Many things to know.
 
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playstation1868

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That last 100-200 MHz of advertised boost clock speed missing is not a cause for concern...

First question: was this a full fresh/clean install of Win10?

All required drivers installed?

Are you in Balanced or Performance mode within WInddows power plan? (In power plan, max processor usage state should be set to 100%)
That's a whole lotta over-kill. Just CPU, Motherboard, Memory, GPU and PSU models would suffice.

What's your motherboard and is BIOS up to date? How many memory DIMM's? are they installed in correct sockets for dual channel operation? Is your memory operating at rated transaction rate (at least)? Have you under-volted in BIOS in needless attempt to reduce temperature? which gimps processor performance by reducing effective clock speed.

Many things to know.
Why is this not a cause for concern? Other CPUs that I have used have always easily clocked up to their advertised boosts. I thought that was how it was meant to be. Secondly, my motherboard is the ASUS ROG Crosshair HERO VIII (WIFI). My PSU is the RM850x. My RAM, in CPUid, says that it is operating at 3600Mhz (the rated frequency). My BIOS is revision 0803 which is apparently the latest. I THINK I have all the latest drivers. I have the latest GPU and Chipset drivers at least. I have the RAM in an automatically configured DCOP configuration in my BIOS and I have some other settings in there set to automatically overclock the CPU as needed (within the parameters of stability of course).
 

rigg42

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Why is this not a cause for concern? Other CPUs that I have used have always easily clocked up to their advertised boosts. I thought that was how it was meant to be. Secondly, my motherboard is the ASUS ROG Crosshair HERO VIII (WIFI). My PSU is the RM850x. My RAM, in CPUid, says that it is operating at 3600Mhz (the rated frequency). My BIOS is revision 0803 which is apparently the latest. I THINK I have all the latest drivers. I have the latest GPU and Chipset drivers at least. I have the RAM in an automatically configured DCOP configuration in my BIOS and I have some other settings in there set to automatically overclock the CPU as needed (within the parameters of stability of course).
The boost thing is an issue.....sort of. I agree that it should be boosting up to advertised speeds. In any real world scenario it's not going to make any real performance difference. In reality I don't think its all that big of deal. These CPU's change voltage and clocks on the millisecond scale.

This seems to be a bios related issue from what I can tell. I currently have 4 different Ryzen 3000 systems. I have 2 with 3600's and x370 asus boards that I'm running on the older bios' with Agesa 1.0.0.2. Not only do they both boost properly but they boost to the full +200mhz when I enable auto OC. My 3900x will hit 4.55 ghz on some cores on the latest bios on my crosshair 8 if I just leave it sitting there with only HWI64 running at 100ms. I've never seen it go over 4.3 when I feed it cinebench single core.

I'm a bit cooling limited so my all core clocks weren't great either on auto settings. I ended up OC'ing the individual CCX's in Ryzen master with my voltage locked to 1.2 v. This probably works a bit better with the 3900x since you have better binned chiplets and 4 ccx's to work with.

I have some other settings in there set to automatically overclock the CPU as needed (within the parameters of stability of course).
What exactly did you change?

Did you do a fresh install of windows or carry over from the previous build?

What resolution are you running?

What does your GPU usage look like in games?

Your current system should be kicking the snot out of the 7700 and 1070 rig you had previously. Irrespective of whether or not it's giving you full boost. Something is wrong here and I'm not really sure what. The hardware choices are fine. Unless running 720p or low settings in games the CPU shouldn't be a bottleneck. At any reasonable resolution and settings for a 2080 the 3800x should be able to feed the GPU enough frames to stay fully utilized all day long. My 3600 keeps a 1080ti fed at 1080p.
 
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InvalidError

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Moderator
Why is this not a cause for concern? Other CPUs that I have used have always easily clocked up to their advertised boosts. I thought that was how it was meant to be.
On older CPUs, sure. On AMD's newest CPUs though the boost frequency is an optimistic all-planets-aligned (plenty of VRM margin, plenty of thermal margin, only one active core) single-core boost, so you'll rarely see it since any background activity combined with the additional activity generated by the CPU monitoring software used to read clocks will almost always cause more than one core to be active and bump the clocks down a bit.

In other words, you may never be able to catch the last 100-200MHz of boost with monitoring software.
 
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rigg42

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On older CPUs, sure. On AMD's newest CPUs though the boost frequency is an optimistic all-planets-aligned (plenty of VRM margin, plenty of thermal margin, only one active core) single-core boost, so you'll rarely see it since any background activity combined with the additional activity generated by the CPU monitoring software used to read clocks will almost always cause more than one core to be active and bump the clocks down a bit.

In other words, you may never be able to catch the last 100-200MHz of boost with monitoring software.
I agree. The 3000 CPU's can adjust core clocks and voltage as much as 1000 times a second and something like HWI64 can't poll at any faster than 10 times a second. In reality none of this really matters. Advertised base and boost clocks on these CPU's are nothing more than marketing.
 

playstation1868

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The boost thing is an issue.....sort of. I agree that it should be boosting up to advertised speeds. In any real world scenario it's not going to make any real performance difference. In reality I don't think its all that big of deal. These CPU's change voltage and clocks on the millisecond scale.

This seems to be a bios related issue from what I can tell. I currently have 4 different Ryzen 3000 systems. I have 2 with 3600's and x370 asus boards that I'm running on the older bios' with Agesa 1.0.0.2. Not only do they both boost properly but they boost to the full +200mhz when I enable auto OC. My 3900x will hit 4.55 ghz on some cores on the latest bios on my crosshair 8 if I just leave it sitting there with only HWI64 running at 100ms. I've never seen it go over 4.3 when I feed it cinebench single core.

I'm a bit cooling limited so my all core clocks weren't great either on auto settings. I ended up OC'ing the individual CCX's in Ryzen master with my voltage locked to 1.2 v. This probably works a bit better with the 3900x since you have better binned chiplets and 4 ccx's to work with.



What exactly did you change?

Did you do a fresh install of windows or carry over from the previous build?

What resolution are you running?

What does your GPU usage look like in games?

Your current system should be kicking the snot out of the 7700 and 1070 rig you had previously. Irrespective of whether or not it's giving you full boost. Something is wrong here and I'm not really sure what. The hardware choices are fine. Unless running 720p or low settings in games the CPU shouldn't be a bottleneck. At any reasonable resolution and settings for a 2080 the 3800x should be able to feed the GPU enough frames to stay fully utilized all day long. My 3600 keeps a 1080ti fed at 1080p.
On older CPUs, sure. On AMD's newest CPUs though the boost frequency is an optimistic all-planets-aligned (plenty of VRM margin, plenty of thermal margin, only one active core) single-core boost, so you'll rarely see it since any background activity combined with the additional activity generated by the CPU monitoring software used to read clocks will almost always cause more than one core to be active and bump the clocks down a bit.

In other words, you may never be able to catch the last 100-200MHz of boost with monitoring software.
I agree. The 3000 CPU's can adjust core clocks and voltage as much as 1000 times a second and something like HWI64 can't poll at any faster than 10 times a second. In reality none of this really matters. Advertised base and boost clocks on these CPU's are nothing more than marketing.
This is a fresh installation of windows. I built this rig totally fresh (I didn't even port any data over...fresh EVERYTHING). In game my GPU usage is consistently on 90-100% in, for example, battlefield V and 1. I run on a 1440p, 144Hz, G-Sync monitor. In my BIOS I can not remember what setting it was but I set something to "Level 3 OC." It was some sort of Performance Enhancer setting. I guess it is supposed to be an OC without having to manually do anything? I saw no difference though. I also set my RAM to operate in a DCOS config clocked at 3600Mhz.
 

rigg42

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This is a fresh installation of windows. I built this rig totally fresh (I didn't even port any data over...fresh EVERYTHING). In game my GPU usage is consistently on 90-100% in, for example, battlefield V and 1. I run on a 1440p, 144Hz, G-Sync monitor. In my BIOS I can not remember what setting it was but I set something to "Level 3 OC." It was some sort of Performance Enhancer setting. I guess it is supposed to be an OC without having to manually do anything? I saw no difference though. I also set my RAM to operate in a DCOS config clocked at 3600Mhz.
Did you set the monitor to run at 144hz in the monitor tab in advanced display options?
 

rigg42

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So to be clear....With the same games, same settings, and the same monitor you are getting worse performance with the 3800x/2080 than you were with a 7700/1070? I just don't understand how that could be possible. I'm stumped. PSU maybe???? IDK.
 
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playstation1868

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So to be clear....With the same games, same settings, and the same monitor you are getting worse performance with the 3800x/2080 than you were with a 7700/1070? I just don't understand how that could be possible. I'm stumped. PSU maybe???? IDK.
Well, in SOME aspects. The average FPS IS higher. Make no mistake it is a good 20-40 fps higher. The STABILITY is the issue. It stutters and lag spikes way more than on the other rig. Like it'll be going strong at 144 FPS and then BOOM it'll drop down 60 frames and then go back up to what it was in like a second. This causes stuttering.
 
Why is this not a cause for concern? Other CPUs that I have used have always easily clocked up to their advertised boosts. I thought that was how it was meant to be. Secondly, my motherboard is the ASUS ROG Crosshair HERO VIII (WIFI). My PSU is the RM850x. My RAM, in CPUid, says that it is operating at 3600Mhz (the rated frequency). My BIOS is revision 0803 which is apparently the latest. I THINK I have all the latest drivers. I have the latest GPU and Chipset drivers at least. I have the RAM in an automatically configured DCOP configuration in my BIOS and I have some other settings in there set to automatically overclock the CPU as needed (within the parameters of stability of course).
Ryzen 3000 is not like other CPU's, that's what everyone is finding out. Hitting highest rated clock speeds is not something it does continually. If you want to know if your system is performing up to par, don't look at clock speed. Instead run a reliable and predictable benchmark: Cinebench 20 is probably best as it's predictable and repeatable and includes a single threaded as well as multi-threaded result to compare with results from other systems with 3800X processors.

Auto-overclcocking doesn't really help much, probably just increases heat output with little if any performance gain. Compare CB20 with and without it enabled to see what it does for you. I enable PBO and set all limits to maximum with a PBO scalar to 5X. That gets me highest CB20 ST scores as well as high MT scoring. ST scores means in lightly threaded workloads (about 95% of things I do: web browsing, spreadsheet and word processing, gaming) it's working at it's best.

For best MT performance (5% tasks; video encoding) I could use a manually set overclock profile. But the difference is not really appreciable so I usually just forego the reboot to set the profile.

This whole max-boost clocks is something still being settled. Some people believe there's gonna be some AGESA updates coming (new BIOS's for your boards) that will help get the processors to boost more reliably. I'm not sure they will; it may have more to do with poor set-up by board MFR's of their board parameters. You may have luck adjusting voltages and LLC that will help the processor boost.

At any rate, if you run some CB20 benches and compare you'd find it doesn't really matter: the processor's major performance benefit comes not from hitting the highest rated boost but hitting mid-range boosts for longer.
 
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rigg42

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Well, in SOME aspects. The average FPS IS higher. Make no mistake it is a good 20-40 fps higher. The STABILITY is the issue. It stutters and lag spikes way more than on the other rig. Like it'll be going strong at 144 FPS and then BOOM it'll drop down 60 frames and then go back up to what it was in like a second. This causes stuttering.
You are on the 1903 update right?
 
Why is this not a cause for concern? Other CPUs that I have used have always easily clocked up to their advertised boosts. I thought that was how it was meant to be. Secondly, my motherboard is the ASUS ROG Crosshair HERO VIII (WIFI). My PSU is the RM850x. My RAM, in CPUid, says that it is operating at 3600Mhz (the rated frequency). My BIOS is revision 0803 which is apparently the latest. I THINK I have all the latest drivers. I have the latest GPU and Chipset drivers at least. I have the RAM in an automatically configured DCOP configuration in my BIOS and I have some other settings in there set to automatically overclock the CPU as needed (within the parameters of stability of course).
There are lots of Youtube videos where the fact many/most Ryzens not hitting advertised boost speeds are discussed in respectable length...

Not everyone has the issue....but lots of folks are seeing 100-200 less MHz than they hoped/expected to see....some were hoping for higher all -core clocks, and some actually hoped to see all cores hit the advertised boost.
But......well, watch the below.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2SzF3IiMaE&t=495s


This may improve in the future with more BIOS releases/updates, but, in short...these Ryzen 3000 CPUs do NOT run very cool...nor do they have much headroom for shenanigans in overclocking. (Most are happy to get all cores at 200-350 MHz less than advertised boost)

YOu can at least compare your results with what other 3800X users are seeing....; if you are substantially lower, your mainboard is more likely at fault than the CPU, but, you might not see advertised boost clock more than once per day unless on a premium board with great cooling...and some luck....and a quick chant!

Good luck, however!
 
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...but, in short...these Ryzen 3000 CPUs do NOT run very cool...nor do they have much headroom for shenanigans in overclocking. (Most are happy to get all cores at 200-350 MHz less than advertised boost)
...
But they DO run with very low power consumption and score impressive performance benchmarks!

Just remember, temperature does not equate to thermal output, e.g. BTU's, calories, erg's. Just think of a butane lighter at 1,500F and ceramic electric heater at 600F: which is putting out enough thermal energy to heat your room? That ceramic heater is putting (maybe) 1,000 times more thermal energy out to heat the room, that would be measured as 1000 times more watts, or BTU, calories, erg's. That's how it can make sense that a Ryzen 3000 APPARENTLY running 'hot', with a higher than expected core temperature, is still actually quite 'cool' because of it's low power consumption.

And max clock speed is not the total measure of performance: it's average sustained clock speed across the entire duration of the work load. That's how Ryzen scores impressive benchmark results, keeping a high sustained clock. And the reason why not hitting the max clock isn't nearly as important as it may seem.
 
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playstation1868

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But they DO run with very low power consumption and score impressive performance benchmarks!

Just remember, temperature does not equate to thermal output, e.g. BTU's, calories, erg's. Just think of a butane lighter at 1,500F and ceramic electric heater at 600F: which is putting out enough thermal energy to heat your room? That ceramic heater is putting (maybe) 1,000 times more thermal energy out to heat the room, that would be measured as 1000 times more watts, or BTU, calories, erg's. That's how it can make sense that a Ryzen 3000 APPARENTLY running 'hot', with a higher than expected core temperature, is still actually quite 'cool' because of it's low power consumption.

And max clock speed is not the total measure of performance: it's average sustained clock speed across the entire duration of the work load. That's how Ryzen scores impressive benchmark results, keeping a high sustained clock. And the reason why not hitting the max clock isn't nearly as important as it may seem.
There are lots of Youtube videos where the fact many/most Ryzens not hitting advertised boost speeds are discussed in respectable length...

Not everyone has the issue....but lots of folks are seeing 100-200 less MHz than they hoped/expected to see....some were hoping for higher all -core clocks, and some actually hoped to see all cores hit the advertised boost.
But......well, watch the below.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2SzF3IiMaE&t=495s


This may improve in the future with more BIOS releases/updates, but, in short...these Ryzen 3000 CPUs do NOT run very cool...nor do they have much headroom for shenanigans in overclocking. (Most are happy to get all cores at 200-350 MHz less than advertised boost)

YOu can at least compare your results with what other 3800X users are seeing....; if you are substantially lower, your mainboard is more likely at fault than the CPU, but, you might not see advertised boost clock more than once per day unless on a premium board with great cooling...and some luck....and a quick chant!

Good luck, however!
So to be clear....With the same games, same settings, and the same monitor you are getting worse performance with the 3800x/2080 than you were with a 7700/1070? I just don't understand how that could be possible. I'm stumped. PSU maybe???? IDK.
Then...if it isn't a CPU problem, why am I getting stuttering and crashing in my Battlefield 1 and V!? My 2080 Super is water cooled and should be plenty fast to smash games like that at high to some ultra settings. It isn't even that my games have "low" fps. It just isnt stable. It'll go from 160 fps to like 50 in a second and then go back up...it makes the game stutter and play poorly. So annoying. I reinstalled GPU drivers and everything! Ugh this new rig was supposed to INCREASE gaming performance lol.
 

InvalidError

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It isn't even that my games have "low" fps. It just isnt stable. It'll go from 160 fps to like 50 in a second and then go back up...it makes the game stutter and play poorly. So annoying. I reinstalled GPU drivers and everything! Ugh this new rig was supposed to INCREASE gaming performance lol.
I'd toss every hardware and system monitoring tool available on a secondary display and see if anything weird is happening when the stutters kick in. Might have a background process hogging the CPU or a defective device causing IO to stall.
 

rigg42

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I just saw this. Thought it might be worth a read...

 

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