Need a Soundcard

[Fusionxz]

I need a reccomendation on which EXTERNAL soundcard I should get.. and if I need an amp with it. I currently own an Alienware x51 (Yes I know, bash me all you want I bought this thing 4 years ago when I had no clue about anything in PC's and just wanted good preformance in games), and I need a new soundcard for 7.1 dolby surround on a new pair of headphones, and an alienware x51 has no slots for an internal soundcard. so therefore that leaves me to go for an external one, my question is which one should I go for.. and do I need to grab an amp, such as a Schiit magni 2 with it because most of the external sound cards I see look like they have an integrated amp in them. here's a few that I've been looking at, and to note I want 7.1 dolby headphone surround (not 5.1):

https://www.amazon.com/ASUS-Xonar-U7-Sound-Card/dp/B00E7QA9E0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1467867538&sr=8-1&keywords=ASUS+Xonar+U7+USB+Sound+Card


http://www.bestbuy.com/site/creative-sound-blasterx-g5-black/5142203.p?id=bb5142203&skuId=5142203
(I'm not sure if this one supports dolby, as I'm not familiar with the software for dolby, I only know the asus card does because it says it right on it)

 

[thor220]

I'm not going to bash you but I am going to help you understand a few things. First, you don't want or need an external sound card that emulates 7.1 surround sound. Why? Because it sounds awefull. If you invest in proper headphones, they should be able to create sound coming from any direction. Trying to emulate seven speakers doesn't help when the headphone can't properly position the sounds in the first place.

A huge drawback with ASUS and Creative external sound cards is that they require heavy drivers to run, effectively rendering them useless on many devices and increasing audio latency. Just as a note, an external sound card is usually called a DAC. If you were to purchase the Schiit magni 2 you might as well pair it with the Schiit modi 2 dac.

Of course before you purchase either a DAC or an AMP you need to have decent headphones. By decent I mean $180 or more.

 

[Fusionxz]

I'm not going to bash you but I am going to help you understand a few things. First, you don't want or need an external sound card that emulates 7.1 surround sound. Why? Because it sounds awefull. If you invest in proper headphones, they should be able to create sound coming from any direction. Trying to emulate seven speakers doesn't help when the headphone can't properly position the sounds in the first place.

A huge drawback with ASUS and Creative external sound cards is that they require heavy drivers to run, effectively rendering them useless on many devices and increasing audio latency. Just as a note, an external sound card is usually called a DAC. If you were to purchase the Schiit magni 2 you might as well pair it with the Schiit modi 2 dac.

Of course before you purchase either a DAC or an AMP you need to have decent headphones. By decent I mean $180 or more.

I currently have a thread up asking for suggestions on good headphones to pair with my audiotechnica at2020 mic and my budget is set to $200-$250. But, to be clear... You're telling me that getting an external sound card, or a "DAC" would be useless, and just simply going for an amp alone would be better?

 

[thor220]

I'm not going to bash you but I am going to help you understand a few things. First, you don't want or need an external sound card that emulates 7.1 surround sound. Why? Because it sounds awefull. If you invest in proper headphones, they should be able to create sound coming from any direction. Trying to emulate seven speakers doesn't help when the headphone can't properly position the sounds in the first place.

A huge drawback with ASUS and Creative external sound cards is that they require heavy drivers to run, effectively rendering them useless on many devices and increasing audio latency. Just as a note, an external sound card is usually called a DAC. If you were to purchase the Schiit magni 2 you might as well pair it with the Schiit modi 2 dac.

Of course before you purchase either a DAC or an AMP you need to have decent headphones. By decent I mean $180 or more.

I currently have a thread up asking for suggestions on good headphones to pair with my audiotechnica at2020 mic and my budget is set to $200-$250. But, to be clear... You're telling me that getting an external sound card, or a "DAC" would be useless, and just simply going for an amp alone would be better?

No, I'm saying to avoid the external sound cards that promote "dolby 7.1 surround" or any other audio effects. These are targeted at gamers and are always lower quality. These are things that require heavy drivers which in turn introduces audio latency and blocks usage on certain devices. The Schiit products don't have any of that. You should get used to calling soundcards DACs because many of the best external sound card producers don't use the words "Sound Card" at all, they are DACs. Confusing because they are the same thing, although the term sound card usually implies the forementioned heavy drivers you want to avoid.

If your budget is $200-$250 then I would recommend you pair them with the Schiit Stack. They are the best bang for your buck. The Schiit Stack being the modi and Magni. The next upgrade above them at around $50 more would be the o2 + ODAC. If you have some soldering skills you can actually purchase your own kit to make it for cheaper than a Schiit stack.

For headphones in the $200 - $250 price range I would recommend either the Audio Technica ATH-A900x or the ATH-AD900x. The difference between the two is that the A900x is closed and the AD900x is open. Pick whichever style you like best. You can sometimes save a lot on these cans by importing from japan. It usually takes around 1-2 weeks for an import to come in. If you are willing to go a bit above your price range you could always get the ATH-A900z, which is the newly release version of the ATH-A900x.

 

[Fusionxz]

I'm not going to bash you but I am going to help you understand a few things. First, you don't want or need an external sound card that emulates 7.1 surround sound. Why? Because it sounds awefull. If you invest in proper headphones, they should be able to create sound coming from any direction. Trying to emulate seven speakers doesn't help when the headphone can't properly position the sounds in the first place.

A huge drawback with ASUS and Creative external sound cards is that they require heavy drivers to run, effectively rendering them useless on many devices and increasing audio latency. Just as a note, an external sound card is usually called a DAC. If you were to purchase the Schiit magni 2 you might as well pair it with the Schiit modi 2 dac.

Of course before you purchase either a DAC or an AMP you need to have decent headphones. By decent I mean $180 or more.

I currently have a thread up asking for suggestions on good headphones to pair with my audiotechnica at2020 mic and my budget is set to $200-$250. But, to be clear... You're telling me that getting an external sound card, or a "DAC" would be useless, and just simply going for an amp alone would be better?

No, I'm saying to avoid the external sound cards that promote "dolby 7.1 surround" or any other audio effects. These are targeted at gamers and are always lower quality. These are things that require heavy drivers which in turn introduces audio latency and blocks usage on certain devices. The Schiit products don't have any of that. You should get used to calling soundcards DACs because many of the best external sound card producers don't use the words "Sound Card" at all, they are DACs. Confusing because they are the same thing, although the term sound card usually implies the forementioned heavy drivers you want to avoid.

If your budget is $200-$250 then I would recommend you pair them with the Schiit Stack. They are the best bang for your buck. The Schiit Stack being the modi and Magni. The next upgrade above them at around $50 more would be the o2 + ODAC. If you have some soldering skills you can actually purchase your own kit to make it for cheaper than a Schiit stack.

For headphones in the $200 - $250 price range I would recommend either the Audio Technica ATH-A900x or the ATH-AD900x. The difference between the two is that the A900x is closed and the AD900x is open. Pick whichever style you like best. You can sometimes save a lot on these cans by importing from japan. It usually takes around 1-2 weeks for an import to come in. If you are willing to go a bit above your price range you could always get the ATH-A900z, which is the newly release version of the ATH-A900x.

I currently own a pair of ATH-AD700x's and I'm not impressed with the audio output from them at all, and the headband really isnt for me.. so I'd like to stay away from audio technica headphones (suggest another pair of headphones please if possible!) and I'll probably just go with the schiit stack, I've heard things about both the schiit stack and the alternative o2 + ODAC and I hear they are pretty much the same exact quality and not very different when both are compared with the same pair of high end headphones(stated in Linus tech tips review of the schiit stack), unless you think that I should go with the o2 + ODAC for better quality, because of course you know more than me about this kinda stuff, I definitely would.. and you are talking about this right? https://www.jdslabs.com/products/48/objective2-odac-combo-revb/ by the way, you're by far the most helpful person I've had on this forum so far out of about 10 threads I've posted, thanks for that! 😀

 

[thor220]

I'm not going to bash you but I am going to help you understand a few things. First, you don't want or need an external sound card that emulates 7.1 surround sound. Why? Because it sounds awefull. If you invest in proper headphones, they should be able to create sound coming from any direction. Trying to emulate seven speakers doesn't help when the headphone can't properly position the sounds in the first place.

A huge drawback with ASUS and Creative external sound cards is that they require heavy drivers to run, effectively rendering them useless on many devices and increasing audio latency. Just as a note, an external sound card is usually called a DAC. If you were to purchase the Schiit magni 2 you might as well pair it with the Schiit modi 2 dac.

Of course before you purchase either a DAC or an AMP you need to have decent headphones. By decent I mean $180 or more.

I currently have a thread up asking for suggestions on good headphones to pair with my audiotechnica at2020 mic and my budget is set to $200-$250. But, to be clear... You're telling me that getting an external sound card, or a "DAC" would be useless, and just simply going for an amp alone would be better?

No, I'm saying to avoid the external sound cards that promote "dolby 7.1 surround" or any other audio effects. These are targeted at gamers and are always lower quality. These are things that require heavy drivers which in turn introduces audio latency and blocks usage on certain devices. The Schiit products don't have any of that. You should get used to calling soundcards DACs because many of the best external sound card producers don't use the words "Sound Card" at all, they are DACs. Confusing because they are the same thing, although the term sound card usually implies the forementioned heavy drivers you want to avoid.

If your budget is $200-$250 then I would recommend you pair them with the Schiit Stack. They are the best bang for your buck. The Schiit Stack being the modi and Magni. The next upgrade above them at around $50 more would be the o2 + ODAC. If you have some soldering skills you can actually purchase your own kit to make it for cheaper than a Schiit stack.

For headphones in the $200 - $250 price range I would recommend either the Audio Technica ATH-A900x or the ATH-AD900x. The difference between the two is that the A900x is closed and the AD900x is open. Pick whichever style you like best. You can sometimes save a lot on these cans by importing from japan. It usually takes around 1-2 weeks for an import to come in. If you are willing to go a bit above your price range you could always get the ATH-A900z, which is the newly release version of the ATH-A900x.

I currently own a pair of ATH-AD700x's and I'm not impressed with the audio output from them at all, and the headband really isnt for me.. so I'd like to stay away from audio technica headphones (suggest another pair of headphones please if possible!) and I'll probably just go with the schiit stack, I've heard things about both the schiit stack and the alternative o2 + ODAC and I hear they are pretty much the same exact quality and not very different when both are compared with the same pair of high end headphones(stated in Linus tech tips review of the schiit stack), unless you think that I should go with the o2 + ODAC for better quality, because of course you know more than me about this kinda stuff, I definitely would.. and you are talking about this right? https://www.jdslabs.com/products/48/objective2-odac-combo-revb/ by the way, you're by far the most helpful person I've had on this forum so far out of about 10 threads I've posted, thanks for that! 😀

The AD700x and the AD900x are in a different league. You aren't supposed to be blown away by the AD700x's, they are value headphones and thus the price. If you are having problems with the headband, why not stick a rubber band on the two paddles. That fixes the fit issue for most people.

Yeah, linus is not an audio expert. Linus has and still makes a living off making computer building and tip youtube videos. I've known linus since he started and he has never been big on audio. Heck, lately he doesn't even do 90% of the videos on his own channel. Here is where you should be going to get audio advice and reviews.

http://www.head-fi.org/

The Schiit stack and the o2 + DAC are far different. The Schiit stack isn't neutral, which means it adds a bit of coloration to the music. The o2 + ODAC is completely neutral and plays the music as the artist intended it. In addition, the o2 + ODAC can output more power, has a lower signal noise, and does well with a larger range of headphones. AMPs and DACs that add coloration will sound good with certain headphones and not with others.

 

[thor220]

As for another headphone recommendation, your price point is in kind of a middle ground. Nothing really in the $250 price range stands out. I'd say at around $300 the Sennheiser HD 600 are really really good. You can find them less used. At nearly half the price the Sennheiser HD 598 are good. I'd say the HD 598 and the ATH-A900x are probably the best bang for your buck all the way up to $280. and either one can be had around $150. I've owned both of these headphones and they are both fantastic.

 

[Fusionxz]

As for another headphone recommendation, your price point is in kind of a middle ground. Nothing really in the $250 price range stands out. I'd say at around $300 the Sennheiser HD 600 are really really good. You can find them less used. At nearly half the price the Sennheiser HD 598 are good. I'd say the HD 598 and the ATH-A900x are probably the best bang for your buck all the way up to $280. and either one can be had around $150. I've owned both of these headphones and they are both fantastic.

Thank you for your response, and I'm probably going with the o2 + ODAC then. Also, I have looked alot at the hd598 and heard great things, and I don't think I'm able to drop 300 on a pair of headphones and then another 250 on an amp.. I'll probably go with the hd598 over the audio technica set of headphones (mainly because of the headband). Hopefully the pair of HD598's is much better than these AD700x's because those were the 2 pairs I was contemplating when I bought these.. Because the ad700x was a bit cheaper and I heard they were nearly the same (But in my opinion my last pair of gaming headphones were better) I could buy the hd600s if I can find them around 250 but I'm not sure if going for used headphones is the best idea.

 

[thor220]

I don't see a problem with used headphones really. If you are worried about the pads being in bad condition they usually provide pictures. That or you can always just buy new pads.

The 598's and the AD700x are good at different things. Allot of people simply won't like the AD700x because it's sound is more laid back in the bass isn't in your face. The 598's on the other hand have more bass and have a bit more detail in the mids. The AD700x are better all arounds because the bass doesn't overwhelm the soundstage which is great for orchestral and big band pieces. I think 8 / 10 people are going to prefer the 598s over the AD700x.

If you liked your gaming headphones better than the AD700x you may very well be a basshead and the AD700x are exactly the cans you don't want to get if you are. Most people don't know how to properly seal them and that causes poor bass.

 

[Fusionxz]

I don't see a problem with used headphones really. If you are worried about the pads being in bad condition they usually provide pictures. That or you can always just buy new pads.

The 598's and the AD700x are good at different things. Allot of people simply won't like the AD700x because it's sound is more laid back in the bass isn't in your face. The 598's on the other hand have more bass and have a bit more detail in the mids. The AD700x are better all arounds because the bass doesn't overwhelm the soundstage which is great for orchestral and big band pieces. I think 8 / 10 people are going to prefer the 598s over the AD700x.

If you liked your gaming headphones better than the AD700x you may very well be a basshead and the AD700x are exactly the cans you don't want to get if you are. Most people don't know how to properly seal them and that causes poor bass.

yeah, for a while I've been between the Q701's and the DT 880s along with the Schiit stack (I've read many reviews on head-fi and the schiit stack is much better for the price than the o2+ODAC) and I think I'm going to go for the DT 880/600s (600 ohm) and yes I do love bass, i've heard that the dt 880 is perfect for almost everything except mids and with a good amp (and I've heard it produces a godly sound with a tube amp which I cant afford now but may be able to upgrade later) its good in the mids.. I've also heard it has a good soundstage, if you can reccomend anything other than the dt 880 than go for it and you may change my mind but as of now I'm sticking with that as my final choice. I've also heard that the hd598 and hd600 is slitghtly bland when it comes to bass as well (much like the ad700x).

 

[thor220]

I wouldn't call the HD 598 or HD 600 so much bass shy, rather I'd call their bass accurate. When sound engineers make sounds or music, the 598 and 600 will play it close to what those engineers had intended. A song with a lot of bass will have a lot of bass while a delicate piano violin duet will not be drowned out with bass every time the musician hits a piano key. That's the largest problem with the DT 880, you are losing detail in the mids because the bass is just overwhelming it and sounds that shouldn't even produce it are. This is the primary problem I see allot of bassheads have. They want the highest quality headphones they can get but in order to do that you have to realize that the goal of any pair of headphones is to produce realistic sounds. It's hard to get a better sounding pair of headphones when your number 1 requirement, bass, can muddy up your mids and your highs. You can get fantastic bass without totally messing everything else up but that's on the higher end headphones.

 

[Fusionxz]

I wouldn't call the HD 598 or HD 600 so much bass shy, rather I'd call their bass accurate. When sound engineers make sounds or music, the 598 and 600 will play it close to what those engineers had intended. A song with a lot of bass will have a lot of bass while a delicate piano violin duet will not be drowned out with bass every time the musician hits a piano key. That's the largest problem with the DT 880, you are losing detail in the mids because the bass is just overwhelming it and sounds that shouldn't even produce it are. This is the primary problem I see allot of bassheads have. They want the highest quality headphones they can get but in order to do that you have to realize that the goal of any pair of headphones is to produce realistic sounds. It's hard to get a better sounding pair of headphones when your number 1 requirement, bass, can muddy up your mids and your highs. You can get fantastic bass without totally messing everything else up but that's on the higher end headphones.

So what I'm hearing from you and what I'm hearing from head-fi is totally different. Which headphones should I go for then, are the Q701 an even medium between the 2? Because I've heard the q701 doesnt have enough bass and I've heard that the 598 and 600 are bland.. Also, I feel as if the 598 wouldnt be a good upgrade to the ad700x and the cheapest 600 I can find is $299 and what do you think about the DT 990? Would that be a better choice? If not, what is the best headphones that you can reccomend to me for a more of a bass head like myself, with a good soundstage and good mids/highs for around my price range? Because from what I've heard the best I could go with is a pair from beyerdynamic. If you absolutely think the best possible pair I could go for is the HD600 than I will compromise and bump up my price range for better quality but from what I hear the hd600s are best for classical music, which I never find myself listening to.

 

[thor220]

I wouldn't call the HD 598 or HD 600 so much bass shy, rather I'd call their bass accurate. When sound engineers make sounds or music, the 598 and 600 will play it close to what those engineers had intended. A song with a lot of bass will have a lot of bass while a delicate piano violin duet will not be drowned out with bass every time the musician hits a piano key. That's the largest problem with the DT 880, you are losing detail in the mids because the bass is just overwhelming it and sounds that shouldn't even produce it are. This is the primary problem I see allot of bassheads have. They want the highest quality headphones they can get but in order to do that you have to realize that the goal of any pair of headphones is to produce realistic sounds. It's hard to get a better sounding pair of headphones when your number 1 requirement, bass, can muddy up your mids and your highs. You can get fantastic bass without totally messing everything else up but that's on the higher end headphones.

So what I'm hearing from you and what I'm hearing from head-fi is totally different. Which headphones should I go for then, are the Q701 an even medium between the 2? Because I've heard the q701 doesnt have enough bass and I've heard that the 598 and 600 are bland.. Also, I feel as if the 598 wouldnt be a good upgrade to the ad700x and the cheapest 600 I can find is $299 and what do you think about the DT 990? Would that be a better choice? If not, what is the best headphones that you can reccomend to me for a more of a bass head like myself, with a good soundstage and good mids/highs for around my price range? Because from what I've heard the best I could go with is a pair from beyerdynamic. If you absolutely think the best possible pair I could go for is the HD600 than I will compromise and bump up my price range for better quality but from what I hear the hd600s are best for classical music, which I never find myself listening to.

Don't go for the q701, they don't have a level of bass you are going to like. They are also not very comfortable. I would either go with the Beyerdynamic 770 or 990. Both have great bass (aside for being pretty well rounded) and are super comfy.

The HD 600s are pretty good at many things but they do crush classical. I would still recommend those 990s or 770s over them for bassheads though.

Just thought I would throw this one in there as well

https://www.amazon.com/beyerdynamic-Custom-Headphones-Accessory-Microphone/dp/B00PK2LJ4E

Pretty good headphones with one huge standout feature, they let you customize the level of bass to fit any situation or preference. This may be a great choice for you because you aren't entirely sure what you like.

 

[Fusionxz]

I wouldn't call the HD 598 or HD 600 so much bass shy, rather I'd call their bass accurate. When sound engineers make sounds or music, the 598 and 600 will play it close to what those engineers had intended. A song with a lot of bass will have a lot of bass while a delicate piano violin duet will not be drowned out with bass every time the musician hits a piano key. That's the largest problem with the DT 880, you are losing detail in the mids because the bass is just overwhelming it and sounds that shouldn't even produce it are. This is the primary problem I see allot of bassheads have. They want the highest quality headphones they can get but in order to do that you have to realize that the goal of any pair of headphones is to produce realistic sounds. It's hard to get a better sounding pair of headphones when your number 1 requirement, bass, can muddy up your mids and your highs. You can get fantastic bass without totally messing everything else up but that's on the higher end headphones.

So what I'm hearing from you and what I'm hearing from head-fi is totally different. Which headphones should I go for then, are the Q701 an even medium between the 2? Because I've heard the q701 doesnt have enough bass and I've heard that the 598 and 600 are bland.. Also, I feel as if the 598 wouldnt be a good upgrade to the ad700x and the cheapest 600 I can find is $299 and what do you think about the DT 990? Would that be a better choice? If not, what is the best headphones that you can reccomend to me for a more of a bass head like myself, with a good soundstage and good mids/highs for around my price range? Because from what I've heard the best I could go with is a pair from beyerdynamic. If you absolutely think the best possible pair I could go for is the HD600 than I will compromise and bump up my price range for better quality but from what I hear the hd600s are best for classical music, which I never find myself listening to.

Don't go for the q701, they don't have a level of bass you are going to like. They are also not very comfortable. I would either go with the Beyerdynamic 770 or 990. Both have great bass (aside for being pretty well rounded) and are super comfy.

The HD 600s are pretty good at many things but they do crush classical. I would still recommend those 990s or 770s over them for bassheads though.

Just thought I would throw this one in there as well

https://www.amazon.com/beyerdynamic-Custom-Headphones-Accessory-Microphone/dp/B00PK2LJ4E

Pretty good headphones with one huge standout feature, they let you customize the level of bass to fit any situation or preference. This may be a great choice for you because you aren't entirely sure what you like.

I've heard from Head-Fi bassheads that the 770 has an overwhelming amount of bass and it is a fully closed-back headphone which I am not a fan of, I read up here about the 990, and from what I see:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/526839/dt880-vs-dt990-comparison-review
The DT990 is a very un-safe choice unless you are buying it for your bass 'phones and then getting another pair for all round uses, it also says this under the bass section
"The DT880 has very "safe" bass, in which most will be happy with the bass it has to offer. It's not too much, nor is it too little, thus it's the perfect amount. I will definitely agree with that to some extent. Between the two headphones, the DT880 has the more favorable bass. In some songs, it had too little, just as the DT990 had too much. But the DT880's bass is safe -- in which it sounds perfectly acceptable and it won't be fatiguing, at all. It's deep, it's balanced, and it's clear. The DT990 on the other hand, is a bit more risky. It does indeed have more bass, but some can find it fatiguing, just as some will love the addition of more of it. To play it safe AND if I could keep one for bass alone, I would choose the DT880 no question."

he also says this...
"only tested the DT880 and the DT990 briefly in the past (I quickly came to the conclusion I found the DT880's sound superior to the DT990, so I discarded the DT990 temporarily). I went ahead and threw the DT990 back into the mix. Let's just say, I was blown away with the sheer amount of treble they presented. It was, in short, appalling. It was so incredibly bright, it rendered them almost unlistenable with all the variety of music I threw at it. With brightness comes sibilance, and with sibilance comes fatigue. The sound of the DT990 was so bright, it felt as if it was covering up all the other details in the music."


The DT880 is a "tamed" DT990, and for that, it sounds much better for all kinds of music.

I also do plan on whatever headphone I get, upgrading to a Tube Amp for superior quality out of the 'phone later on.
And with the "I don't really know what I want" I don't necessarily know the genres for all the music I listen to.. Here's a playlist of pretty much the only songs I listen to on a daily basis that is, listen to 1 or 2 to get a feel and I feel like the DT880 is the best choice for me.. But then again, I could be wrong. *TAKE THE FIRST SONG WITH MOST CONSIDERATION* However, I do love the rest of the playlist aswell.. I feel as if the first is a good all rounded song to base it off of.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLX77b-cVf5cOymaEBvZj51VY5YykWnpMq

 

[thor220]

If you feel like the DT 990 would be too much bass for you the choice is really yours to make. If you really are so unsure why not just go with the custom one pros? They let you adjust the bass to your liking and they sound good.

 

[Fusionxz]

Well the thing is, If you read what I posted from that website.. He says the highs are way to much, and the bass is also way to much.. and the DT880 is kind of perfect in the middle. And I don't like closed back headphones which I why I didn't go for the 770.. also the custom one pro seems like something I wouldn't be familiar enough with to enjoy them completely. I feel like the DT880 is perfect for me and I've heard they are AMAZING with a tube amp which I plan to get later on.. I'm pretty sure my decision is on the 880s.. You've been a great help, and thank you so much!

 

[thor220]

Well the thing is, If you read what I posted from that website.. He says the highs are way to much, and the bass is also way to much.. and the DT880 is kind of perfect in the middle. And I don't like closed back headphones which I why I didn't go for the 770.. also the custom one pro seems like something I wouldn't be familiar enough with to enjoy them completely. I feel like the DT880 is perfect for me and I've heard they are AMAZING with a tube amp which I plan to get later on.. I'm pretty sure my decision is on the 880s.. You've been a great help, and thank you so much!

Glad you decided on something and it was a pleasure to help.