Need advice for Hi8 -> DVD copying

adrian

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Hi everybody,

I would like to transfer all my old Hi8 tapes to DVD - no editing, just
simply copying them. Because the tapes are 2 hours and on a DVD I can
usually put less than that, I can't let them both run unattended, so I
have to first capture the whole tape on hard-drive, then only record on DVD
until the DVD is full, and continue with the remaining of the file on a
different DVD and so on. I have been able to capture and save the video on
the hard-drive, but I couldn't do the second part. I tried to edit the saved
file and split it in 2, but any software I used (such as Adobe premiere)
took forever because of the large size of the file, to the point it became
impractical to use this method.

Any suggestions what software to use and how to do this?

Help will be highly appreciated,

Adrian
 
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Adrian wrote:
> Hi everybody,
>
> I would like to transfer all my old Hi8 tapes to DVD - no editing, just
> simply copying them. Because the tapes are 2 hours and on a DVD I can
> usually put less than that, I can't let them both run unattended, so I
> have to first capture the whole tape on hard-drive, then only record on
DVD
> until the DVD is full, and continue with the remaining of the file on a
> different DVD and so on. I have been able to capture and save the video on
> the hard-drive, but I couldn't do the second part. I tried to edit the
saved
> file and split it in 2, but any software I used (such as Adobe premiere)
> took forever because of the large size of the file, to the point it became
> impractical to use this method.
>
> Any suggestions what software to use and how to do this?

6000 kbps encoding with stereo audio at 192k will fit two hours on a 4.7Gb
DVD-or+R with a little room to spare.
 
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i'm_tired wrote:

> 6000 kbps encoding with stereo audio at 192k will fit two hours on a
4.7Gb
> DVD-or+R with a little room to spare.
>
>

As I'm looking forward to the same task, will that allow all (most?) of
the information from Hi8 (And soon-to-be purchased digital camcorder -
probably Sony's DCR HC-85) to be added to DVD - either 1 or 2 hours per
DVD OK for me?
 
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i'm_tired wrote:


> 6000 kbps encoding with stereo audio at 192k will fit two hours on a 4.7Gb
> DVD-or+R with a little room to spare.


Correct me if I'm wrong:

6192 Kbit/sec / 8 = 774 KB/sec
774 KB/sec * 360 = 2,786,400 KB/hour

2 hours of video will take up 5,572,800 KB
How will that fit on a single layer DVD with room to spare?


-WD
 
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Will Dormann wrote:
> i'm_tired wrote:
>
>
>> 6000 kbps encoding with stereo audio at 192k will fit two hours on a
4.7Gb
>> DVD-or+R with a little room to spare.
>
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong:
>
> 6192 Kbit/sec / 8 = 774 KB/sec
> 774 KB/sec * 360 = 2,786,400 KB/hour
>
> 2 hours of video will take up 5,572,800 KB
> How will that fit on a single layer DVD with room to spare?

Well, where is your audio? I didn't bother to whip out the calculator. I
happen to have encoded 2:03 with ulead dvd movie factory last night and it
fit a disk. The video was 6000 kbps and the audio was 192 stereo. I didn't
use AC3 audio. - Is that the difference?
 
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Dan Wenz wrote:

> i'm_tired wrote:
>
> > 6000 kbps encoding with stereo audio at 192k will fit two hours on a
> 4.7Gb
>
>> DVD-or+R with a little room to spare.
>>
>>
>
> As I'm looking forward to the same task, will that allow all (most?) of
> the information from Hi8 (And soon-to-be purchased digital camcorder -
> probably Sony's DCR HC-85) to be added to DVD - either 1 or 2 hours per
> DVD OK for me?

http://www.dvdrhelp.com/calc.htm


-WD
 
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i'm_tired wrote:

> Will Dormann wrote:
>
>>Correct me if I'm wrong:
>>
>>6192 Kbit/sec / 8 = 774 KB/sec
>>774 KB/sec * 360 = 2,786,400 KB/hour
>>
>>2 hours of video will take up 5,572,800 KB
>>How will that fit on a single layer DVD with room to spare?
>
>
> Well, where is your audio? I didn't bother to whip out the calculator. I
> happen to have encoded 2:03 with ulead dvd movie factory last night and it
> fit a disk. The video was 6000 kbps and the audio was 192 stereo. I didn't
> use AC3 audio. - Is that the difference?


Bits are bits. It doesn't matter if it's AC3 or LPCM or anything. If
Ulead told you that the video is 6000 kbps, I have a feeling that it is
incorrect.

Open one of your resulting MPEG2/VOB files in Bitrate Viewer:
http://www.tecoltd.com/bitratev.htm

What does it report the bitrate to be? (Average and Peak)


-WD
 
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Will Dormann wrote:
> i'm_tired wrote:
>
<snip>
>
>
> Bits are bits. It doesn't matter if it's AC3 or LPCM or anything. If
> Ulead told you that the video is 6000 kbps, I have a feeling that it is
> incorrect.
>
> Open one of your resulting MPEG2/VOB files in Bitrate Viewer:
> http://www.tecoltd.com/bitratev.htm
>
> What does it report the bitrate to be? (Average and Peak)


I see. The peak is 6000 and the average is 4900. - That leaves me about a
zillion questions.

First: I thought DVD compliant mpeg had to be at least 5400. Next, now I
have to wonder why I'm not getting accurate info from Ulead. I thought I
told it CBR... and since it is fibbing to me, I have to wonder how to make
it not exhibit that sort of behaviour... Now I have reading to do.
 
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i'm_tired wrote:

> I see. The peak is 6000 and the average is 4900. - That leaves me about a
> zillion questions.
>
> First: I thought DVD compliant mpeg had to be at least 5400. Next, now I
> have to wonder why I'm not getting accurate info from Ulead. I thought I
> told it CBR... and since it is fibbing to me, I have to wonder how to make
> it not exhibit that sort of behaviour... Now I have reading to do.

There is no minimum bitrate for DVD really. But once you go so low, it
gets to look pretty horrible.

I make DVDs out of recordings from my MythTV machine. With half D1
resolution and the proper filtering, I can use an average bitrate of
3000 kbit/sec (Mainconcept encoder) and the results are pretty amazing.
It's better than analog cable in that the video is very clean, but
worse in very high motion scenes such as full-screen fire or sparks.
(Slight visible macroblocking appears there)

With 3000kbit/sec video and 192k AC3 audio, I can get 3 hours plus menus
on a DVD with just a little room to spare. (which is why I knew your
6000kbit figure for 2 hours was incorrect)


-WD
 
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On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 18:56:26 GMT, Will Dormann
<wdormann@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:

>Correct me if I'm wrong:
>
>6192 Kbit/sec / 8 = 774 KB/sec
>774 KB/sec * 360 = 2,786,400 KB/hour

6192 kbps = 6192000 bps.
/ 8 = 774000 Bps. But now you need divide by 1024 (not 1000) to get
KBps. Thus, 774000/1024= 755,86 KB/sec

*3600 = 2,721,094 KB/h

which means 5,442,188 for 2 hours.
 
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Bariloche wrote:

> On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 18:56:26 GMT, Will Dormann
> <wdormann@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>>Correct me if I'm wrong:
>>
>>6192 Kbit/sec / 8 = 774 KB/sec
>>774 KB/sec * 360 = 2,786,400 KB/hour
>
>
> 6192 kbps = 6192000 bps.
> / 8 = 774000 Bps. But now you need divide by 1024 (not 1000) to get
> KBps. Thus, 774000/1024= 755,86 KB/sec
>
> *3600 = 2,721,094 KB/h
>
> which means 5,442,188 for 2 hours.


Thanks. I figured in there somewhere I'd use the wrong type of "kilo".


-WD
 

adrian

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I also thought a 2h hi8 tape would fit onto a 4.7Gb DVD, but it didn't. So
going back to the original question, any ideas how to copy 2 hours hi8 tapes
on DVDs?

Thanks,

Adrian
 
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Adrian wrote:
> I also thought a 2h hi8 tape would fit onto a 4.7Gb DVD, but it didn't. So
> going back to the original question, any ideas how to copy 2 hours hi8 tapes
> on DVDs?

http://www.dvdrhelp.com/calc.htm

Calculate what bitrate you need for the amount of video you have.
2h of video will easily fit on a single DVD.


-WD
 
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On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 01:32:30 GMT, "Adrian" <adrian@xxx.xxx> wrote:

>I also thought a 2h hi8 tape would fit onto a 4.7Gb DVD, but it didn't. So
>going back to the original question, any ideas how to copy 2 hours hi8 tapes
>on DVDs?

Wether it fits or not is just a matter of bitrate, which either you
calculate yourself, or use a "bitrate calculator" software.
 
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Adrian <adrian@xxx.xxx> wrote:
: I also thought a 2h hi8 tape would fit onto a 4.7Gb DVD, but it didn't. So
: going back to the original question, any ideas how to copy 2 hours hi8 tapes
: on DVDs?

It WILL fit, but not at the settings you are using. I have access to a
standalone DVD recorder at my cable access TV studio and at the "standard"
setting it records 2 hours on one DVD.

As others have been saying, you need to adjust the bitrate when you record
to fit 2 hours on a disc.

Richard in Boston, MA, USA
 

adrian

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Thanks everybody for your replies.

> As others have been saying, you need to adjust the bitrate when you record
> to fit 2 hours on a disc.
>

Actually I don't want to sacrifice quality for time as these are intended to
be high quality back-ups of the hi8 originals, so I would prefer to record
at the maximum bit rate. So my question is, how do I manage the whole
recording process in this case.

Someone in another NG suggested to capture the video and save it in avi
format, and copy the avi files on DVD. This sounds like a good idea as it
will preserve the original quality, but it would require 3, 4 times as many
DVDs. Is the difference in quality significant enought to make this
worthwile?

Adrian
 
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On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 04:36:22 GMT, "Adrian" <adrian@xxx.xxx> wrote:

>Someone in another NG suggested to capture the video and save it in avi
>format, and copy the avi files on DVD.

The path for best quality goes through capturing as Avi encoded with
Huffyuv (which is a lossless codec). Once the material edited, it's
the time to chose a storage format. The best, of course, is keeping it
as Huffyuv, but it ocupies a lot, and would not play on a desktop Dvd
player. But encode it to mpeg-2 at 8000 kbps, and you'll get very high
quality that can be authored as Dvd.
 

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