Need Advice on CPU fan error and buying a new PSU, PC wont boot

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Computer Specs (Custom)
Motherboard: ASUSTek model A8V-VM
CPU: AMD Athlon 64 3700+ Socket 939, Core Speed 2.2 GHZ
RAM: Brand = CORSAIR, Type: 2x DDR 512MB , 400 MHZ, XMS3200, CMX512-3200C2 (Total 1 GB)

Power Supply: Model: LPK2-30 500W (Dimensions: Height 3.3 inches, width: 5.8 inches)
300W Total Power on +3.3V and +5V is 140W Max.
350W Total Power on +3.3V and +5V is 150W Max.
400W Total Power on +3.3V and +5V is 160W Max.
420W Total Power on +3.3V and +5V is 170W Max.
450W Total Power on +3.3V and +5V is 200W Max.
460W Total Power on +3.3V and +5V is 205W Max.
500W Total Power on +3.3V and +5V is 210W Max.
520W Total Power on +3.3V and +5V is 220W Max.
550W Total Power on +3.3V and +5V is 240W Max.

Fans: Processor = 65 Silencer Ultra TCL AC
Chassis fans (back of computer) CreAir: DC Brushless fan = Model DFC802512M DC 12V __ 1.6 W
Front Fan.

Need advice on CPU fan error and what to buy for a new Power Supply(Or clean it?) because computer won't boot.


Alright, first of all. I'm trying to fix my friend's computer. I ask him questions like if it ever randomly restarted or if he installed any new hardware. He said he tried to install an video card which is an an ASUS, EN 210 Geforce 210 512MB, PCI Express 2.0. He said no it never restarted or anything like that. And it didn't work when he tried to install the video card.


Anyways, I take a look at his computer, so it won't boot, no beeps, but power is running, and fans are running etc. So I unplug everything not needed, removed graphics card, etc. Reseat memory sticks etc. To see if I hear beeps. Nope, still won't boot. Then cleared the Real Time Clock in CMOS as indicated by his motherboard documentation. Still didn't work. I figured the reason I did not hear the beeps was because there was no Speaker for bios. But that was not the case either.

Anyways, I figured maybe it's a bad power supply. So I use older 200Watt Power supply, it didn't have the extra 4 pin. Tried it and nothing worked period. So then I replugged in his power supply in. And his computer booted up. Now after that I turned off the computer. Started plugging everything back in. Now all of a sudden it doesn't work again.

So I unplug the power from the floppy drive, now the computer boots up again. We get CPU fan error as indicated by the bios. The fan runs very slow. In fact this has been an error ever since he bought the computer. He bought the computer used. I checked the temperatures in Bios, CPU Temperature : 32 Degrees C / 98.5F , MB Temperature 22 C / 71. 5 F.

It seems as the CPU heats up the the CPU goes faster. I mean it was running extremely slow at 200 RPM, then it speeds up to 570 RPM. And I also checked the feature in the bios that makes the Fan slow. Can't remember what the feature is called. But it was off. Silent feature whatever. Point was, I can't understand why it goes so slow, maybe it's a bad fan? Any advice on this is needed. Also the logo was on backwards, so I think the fan was spinning in the wrong direction.

He also told me once that he took the Heat sink and Fan off to check the CPU because this is happen before where the computer didn't boot. And I think its customary to put more thermal compound on the computer when you do that. So I decided to shut down the computer and do that. So I use the Dynex Silver thermal compound on it. I scrapped off old thermal compound, then I use the card to spread it and put a thin coating on it, I use a paper towel to spread it better. So after that I put the heat sink and fan turn on the computer it works. Watch the temperatures, first its extremely low, then goes up a little and stays at a steady pace.
Anyways that was that, he takes the computer home. Then about a week he calls me up saying the computer isn't working anymore.



He comes over, I take a look at it, this time the CPU fan, runs stops, runs, stops. Weird noises are coming from the power supply. I figure it's the power supply now. I tried a power supply from a Dell Dimension E510 and try that, it doesn't work still. I figured it's a 305 watt power supply it should work. Because the motherboard recommends a min 300W ATX 12 V Specification 2.0 complaint power supply unit. But it still doesn't work, and I still think it's the power supply, because this time the cpu fan runs even worse with the Dell power supply. And I learned that if the min power supply is 300 watts, then it should be 30% more than the minimum. And I figured that the Dell power supply's are cheap and crappy, So I suspect it's the Power Supply.

So I just need some advice on what kind of power supply I need to get. CPU fan recommendation on why it's doing what it's doing? Or clean the power supply considering I took it out out and it looks absolutely swamped with dust on it. And I'm worried it may not be the power supply. I just need some advice. As I know there is a lot more to a power supply than higher the wattage the better.

Also is this maybe a good power supply:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182199

And the computer always had CPU fan error from the beginning because of the low RPM speed. The guy that sold it to him just said don't worry about it.

I think it's the power supply because the when the CPU doesn't work, I think it doesn't beep at all. So I think the power supply is not giving enough power to the CPU. Hence, I think that is why the CPU fan is barely spinning at all, because I think the CPU fan isn't detecting the CPU heating up. That is my theory.
 
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hpdeskjet

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Sounds like you're right about the PSU. The new PSU from newegg that you linked looks solid. BTW, since the system is a bit old, it might be worthwhile to check the motherboard for bad capacitors while you are at it. I had a old socket 939 mobo from ASUS that I had to replace recently because some capacitors were bulging near the CPU/heatsink.
 
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Alright thanks for your advice for so far. But I was going to ask since motherboard suggest 300W min. And the computer uses onboard video. But he may want to add a Video Card which is EN210 Geforce 210 512 MB for PCI Express 2.0. And usually don't these video card require an extra 100W or 200W for them? Otherwise I was thinking that I needed a 500W. Although I have been told there is more to a power supply than it's max watts. That you need to know how many amps each rail can be supported. But that gets a little complicated. Otherwise some of the power supplies you linked will be alright anyways? 350W to 450W.

Otherwise I think I'm going to try and buy one then return one to Best Buy or Office Depot after I look at their return policies to make sure. I might go that route to see if it does indeed work with a new power supply.


Edit Update*: I took out the CMOS battery from motherboard since there is no power supply connected to it. So CMOS battery doesn't drain for no reason since I can always reset the bios system clock. Is this alright? Or should I just leave it in?
 
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I don't get it, it still doesn't boot up. It must be the processor. The heat sink isn't warming up. And this can of air that I bought shoots out liquid? Ultra Duster, is bitterant bad for PC parts, it says its okay to use on pc parts? But it's shooting out liquid? Hmm? Is it okay to use?

Anyways, I'm not sure what's going on. I'm going to try and clean CPU and reapply thermal paste. And I looked very careful for burnt traces and bursted caps. There was this little piece of metal that looked like it came from one of those little tiny chips, but these chips have 2 tiny pins going into the motherboard and not one in the middle. It didn't look it came from anywhere. Also there was a piece of dust on the CPU.
 
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hpdeskjet

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Can of air shouldn't be shooting out liquid. The cans of air I have tell me not to use the can if it's not upright (probably cause of liquid). I'm guessing that might be the case here.

I suppose it wouldn't hurt to take the CPU out to check for bent pins and reseating the CPU/HSF. You also mention there was always some CPU fan error. Maybe that contributed to damaging the CPU through heat or something. Hopefully someone else comes along who might be able to shed some light on the situation.

Not sure about the loose pieces of metal but that can't be construed as a positive sign.
 
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Yeah, you were right about that can of air, I had no idea it would leak out if I held it like that. It got liquid over the motherboard, but it evaporated quickly. Not a lot, just a spot or two 3 inches in diameter So I hope that is okay.

So anyways, ok after trying the new power supply and figuring out it still didn't work. I examined the MB for burnt marks and anything unusual nothing. Examined it for bad caps, no exploding caps or leaks.

But I did find something unsual. There are two bent fins for the heatsink for the Chipset, I guess the plastic push down that locks the heat sink in place presses against those two fins, the plastic clips for the heatsink for the CPU. Makes me wonder if this heat sink is compatible for my processor for this motherboard. But it does fit the two holes for the CPU attachment on motherboard. I think it was always like that, but this is not professional.

Oh and Sata 4 got ripped out the black part and the pins are bent. I don't think this renders the whole pc not to work. Maybe he got it like that. I don't know who did that and why but whatever.


I examined the CPU, piece of dust I got rid of. I cleaned the CPU with purified rubbing alcohol 50$ Isopropyl. Then I ended up taking the motherboard out to look at the backside of it, no burn marks , no visible damage. It was a pain to get out because top left screw that had a stubborn spacer that I needed to hold with a plizer to get it out.

I checked the CPU - no burnt, or bent pins, the pins are all gold.

Can the CPU still be destroyed and over heated but not show any physical features of that?

And there was never any symptoms of over heating, when the computer was turned on, it always worked for him. But he did claim he had issues in the past where the computer did not boot, and he took off the heat sink and fan. Then he got it to boot again. Or something like that, not sure if booted right away.

Also the two bent chips on the chipset heatsink fan can cause a short and kill the power supply or something else hmm?

The last thing I need to do is swap a processor, but I don't think it's worth checking to waste money on. I know he payed $300 for this computer and I know he is going to be mad.

The CPU fan error needed to be fixed from day one, I know that for a fact. But I"m not sure it over heated because of it. But who knows, maybe it did destroy it. Anyone have theories? Are there tools to check processors and motherboards?
 
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hpdeskjet

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At this point I think it would be wise to follow popatim's advice from a couple of days ago and replace the CPU fan. I agree with you that the whole fan setup your friend got from the seller definitely doesn't sound professional at all. It's almost like the fan/heatsink is being forced like a square peg into a round hole kind of thing. Replacing the fan at this point is really the cheapest and most relevant option. The system shouldn't POST without a properly installed heatsink.

I'm not sure about the mobo having Sata4 ripped out and having bent pins, but that sounds really sketchy too :??: It was working before but I suppose we can't completely eliminate the mobo as the problem. If the problem is really the mobo, replacing it isn't really a logical option. I tried looking for a replacement board for my AMD Athlon 64 3800+ a couple months ago but the prices were ridiculous. I was just better off upgrading the system. Hopefully your friend can salvage old parts (hard drive, case?) from this system to reuse if upgrading becomes the only option left.
 
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Well, here is the scoop, about the CPU fan, I did a switcharoo. I switched the chassis fan and plugged that in the CPU fan input, and plugged the CPU fan into the chassis fan input. Even the chassis ran faster than the CPU fan. It still didn't boot. I also once took my cpu fan out of my emachine, different socket of course, and that run good to. Still it wouldn't boot. I don't think replacing the CPU fan is going to make it boot. Since I tried switching and others, but then again who knows, maybe I should get the proper fan. It's noted as a good point.

And also, the proper heat sink is a good point. I'm going to do some research to what a proper heat sink looks on this motherboard, because I don't think his is it, and even the Motherboard documentation shows something different. His heatsink has a screw going right through the CPU's heat sink to hold the clip in. Yeah, if I had a camera I could show you a picture of it. It's really weird.

Also, what if I were to loosen the heatsink up and not have it clipped in, but turn the PC on while I'm moving it around a bit? Dumb idea sounds dangerous to see if the PC really does need to have it properly secure?



There is another thing I could try, I will try tomorrow.

Jumpers for the USB device wake up. It says this in the MB documentation:


"USB device wake-up (3-pin USBPW12, USBPW34, USBPW56,
USBPW78)
Set these jumpers to +5V to wake up the computer from S1 sleep
mode (CPU stopped, DRAM refreshed, system running in low power
mode) using the connected USB devices. Set to +5VSB to wake up
from S3 and S4 sleep modes (no power to CPU, DRAM in slow refresh,
power supply in reduced power mode).
The USBPW12 and USBPW34 jumpers are for the rear USB ports. The
USBPW56 and USBPW78 jumpers are for the internal USB connectors."


"The USB device wake-up feature requires a power supply that can
provide 500mA on the +5VSB lead for each USB port; otherwise,
the system would not power up.
The total current consumed must NOT exceed the power supply
capability (+5VSB) whether under normal condition or in sleep mode."



Maybe his CPU is sleepy and it's in a sleepy state lol? And I should play around with these jumpers to see if it does anything. Anyways, I'm not sure why it's all getting serious business with power supply demands for this. What does provide 500mA on the +5VSB lead? Mean? How do I know for for certain?
 
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Nah, nothing today. I'm taking a break today. I'll maybe try something tomorrow. There isn't much left to try.

I want to swap CPU's. Maybe try different heat sink. Replace CPU fan. Try those other jumpers on the motherboard.

And perhaps the motherboard doesn't like the heat sink and it thinks it's not secure so it won't boot. I could hold it tighter to see if it boots.
 
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Conclusion: I have failed. Here's what happened.

Before I played around with the computer. I did a paper clip test for his power supply, everything passed with the tolerance levels on 24 pin.

did 5 hours to 8 hour pass on his memory using Memtest on my computer, it passed the test. Anyways after all this the next day here is what I do:

I played around with the computer some more.

1. Took out cmos batery. Took jumper out, USB jumper, only had one stick of RAM in.
2. Put back in jumper (after losing it) (Titled PC computer up so I could get the jumper)
3. Got the jumper, put back in, turned on the computer. Didn't work.




4. Put CMOS battery in, it booted.

I didnt get a bios at all. But I got a blicking underscore. Then it goes to "Reboot and Select Proper boot device, or insert boot media in selcted boot device and press okay"


So I turned off the computer. Plugged in keyboard. Got the computer on, Bios appeared, Got CMOS checksum bad, got F1 to Run Setup, Press F2 to load default values and continue. Still gives CPU fan error. I put a older smaller CPU fan, it turns fast etc, but BIOS gives CPU error probably because it can't detect it.


Anyways, I get this info

About bios, blob blob, so I turn it off and turn it on. Everything works.



Now the next day, turn it on and it works. I go to the operating system. I run a ASUS utility program to test for anything. Stuff passes, or stuff doesn't show up. I think the utility program is crap, whatever. So I run a spybotsearch and destroy run. Get one trojan, and some malware, spyware etc. It removes most all but two, and it stated that it couldn't delete these two because the viruses where running, and I needed to restart. So I'm like okay. So after 1 Hour and 30 mins of using it I restarted.


Here is where the heck begins, after I restarted it stopped, it wouldn't boot. So I turned it off and on etc messing with it. I played around with the jumpers and I then smelled a strange ordor. So I turn off the power supply. Turn on the computer, fans work, but it's not booting.

But after 3rd or 4th attempt of dinking around with taking cmos battery out.

No fans no anything is running, the green light on MB is showing. But the Motherboard isnt turning on the power supply. There is nothing. So I take another power supply from my other Dell. Same story, nothing is turning on, no power whatsoever.

So then I decide maybe it's the pwr sw, thing on the case is just failing. So I put the motherboard into a different case, same story, it doesn't boot.

In fact, I use my voltage meter on the 24 pin atx while it's powering up. Turning off and on the switch. For one of the orange wires it went from 0.01 to 0.47.

I still say his power supply is junk and that's what killed it? I just don't know.

So what happened here, what killed this motherboard?

And why is the voltage so low, is the motherboard not accepting anymore voltage into the board?
 
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I'm playing around with the power supply on another motherboard that never worked either (But at it at least turns on the power supply and displays the right voltages). And all I do is just tap on the power supply and it stops power, and then when I tap on it again it starts.

I'm starting to agree with you. I'm going to try taking apart the power supply to see what is inside it.

Anyways now what I do? Buy new parts? This is a huge loss.


And I don't even have the pwr sw connectors connected on this other MB yet it turns on right when I turn the switch, weird.

 
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