need advice

[Spiritof55]

I'm gathering info on various pc components in hopes of creating a system soon. After searching the net awhile and finding this site I've decided to ask you all for help. My processor will either be an athlon xp 2100+ or p4 2ghz. Price will be a small factor but I really want a good gaming chip as my system will be used mainly for online games. I realize other factors including video card and amount of memory can affect game performance. Is there a big difference between these chips concerning game graphics? Any info will be appreciated. Thanx

 

[texas_techie]

graphics do not depend heavily on CPUs. The CPU is used for things like game physics. Obviously, the graphics card is 90% of how your game will look.
At those speeds, it really doesnt matter which chip you get. Slower chips can hurt overall performance. For online gaming, your biggest factor will be connection speed. Get cable or a decent DSL if you dont have it already.
Good memory helps. If you get a P4.. then rambus is the better solution. With athlon, you have to go DDR. I recommend 256mb. PC2100 will do the job. If your looking for the next thing. Its pc2700 (pc333). But then ya gotta get a KT333 chipset ( or any chipset that support pc333 memory)
If I missed something lemme know

Benchmarks are like sex, everybody loves doing it, everybody thinks they are good at it.

 

[Spiritof55]

How about the cpu instruction sets? Do they play a big role in games? I'm guessing most new games are programmed to take advantage of 3dnow and sse2. I've always wondered if there is a difference between them. Thanx for the help texas...its appreciated.

 

[killian2]

I don't know about CPU instruction sets, but I have a few Athlons that my friends and I play online games on. Mainly Counter Strike. The chips are Tbird's 1.4Ghz and a XP 1600+ with 256mb of DDR, and Geforce2 MX 400 video cards. All of these systems run extremly fast and game play is flawless. These are not the most recent video cards but they do a good job. If price is some what of a factor you will probably save some money going with the AMD chip over Intel. Hope this helps.

 

[chuck232]

Would you be into overclocking? If you are I'd say Intel is that to go, if not go AMD. I'll post up two possible systems and get you the price in a bit.

My firewall tastes like burning.

 

[Copenhagen]

I would recommend the following:

2.0GHz Northwood A with FSB 400
Motherboard based on Intel's 850E chipset
256MB Samsung RDRAM PC1066
GeForce4 Ti4200 based graphics card
Western Digital JB series disk (80GB or 120GB)
Antec like Medium-tower case with P4 compatible 340W-400W PS

Enter the BIOS and change FSB from 100 to 133 and you have a powerful P4 Northwood B @ 2667MHz. Chances are you can go even further, as the only thing which will be holding you back is the CPU itself; motherboard and memory will be within spec at FSB 133. At best probably around 3000MHz and more likely 2800MHz, depending on your cooling solution. If you are a little lucky (with your P4 sample) you will then have a system which will be able to compete even with the first samples of ClawHammer clocked at 2000MHz which will emerge by the end of 2002.

But you'll have to wait until the end of this month where Intel will be slashing prices on its high-end P4's and where the appropriate motherboards and graphics cards will be available.

You could also go for the upcoming Athlon Thoroughbred, but the overclocking potential of this chip is unknown, with unofficial benchmarks indicating that it could be a "disappointment". Not to mention: When will the chip finally launch and be available for the ordinary buyer ? It could launch as late as by the end of June.

I'm sure others in this forum has a completely different view on this, so be it.

<i>/Copenhagen - Clockspeed will make the difference... in the end</i>

 

[Spiritof55]

Thanx for helping everyone. I'm not ignorant of pc hardware and technology but probably don't know as much as most of you...especially the overclocking stuff. As of now overclocking isn't a priority but that may change once I have a board that is jumper free. Changing the settings in the bios makes it too easy to not try. Copenhagen...the specs you listed are almost exactly what I want in a p4 machine. I'd have more memory (preferably a gig) and a geoforce4 4600. I'm looking to have this system useful for a couple years at least. My 550 has served me well for the last 2-3 (however long its been on the market). Only recently I've noticed some games require a faster processor. Is the new athlon chip 462 pin? If so...I'm hoping it is compatible with current 462 boards unless the architecture has changed so much that it isn't. Then again if it has but the pin number is the same..couldn't it still be used? Ack...I need to look around this site more =)

 

[Copenhagen]

<blockquote><font size=1>Svar på:</font><hr><p>Is the new athlon chip 462 pin? If so...I'm hoping it is compatible with current 462 boards unless the architecture has changed so much that it isn't. <p><hr></blockquote><p>It will be Socket A, just like the current Athlon Palomino and be fully compatible with most existing Socket A motherboards. Look for a KT333 based motherboard and remember to get some high performance RAM that can go all the way up to 200MHz.

<i>/Copenhagen - Clockspeed will make the difference... in the end</i>

 

[texas_techie]

It depends on what you mean by new athlon chip.
athlon - old
athlon XP - newer
Thoroughbred - coming real soon ( we think)
Hammer - coming out in fall

The same motherboard will run an athlon, XP and T-bred. Unless of course you want to run pc2700 memory. Then ya need a new mobo ( because of the memory, not the CPU).


Benchmarks are like sex, everybody loves doing it, everybody thinks they are good at it.

 

[Matisaro]

If you are a little lucky (with your P4 sample) you will then have a system which will be able to compete even with the first samples of ClawHammer clocked at 2000MHz which will emerge by the end of 2002.

The clawhammer will be releeased at pr3400+.


The 2100+ > 2.2ghz p4

Therefore the 3400+>3.6ghz p4.*



* This assumes that amd has not changed its pr rating meaning and is not lying about the release pr.

The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark

 

[chuck232]

Well, after reading your needs, I've put together two systems. The Intel one is mainly if your going to overclock. I've chosen the parts to these systems without money in mind. I made sure not to skimp on anything, but I didn't go overboard either. I'll put some of the common parts together and the other parts in their separate groups. I've also used newegg.com's pricing as a reference point.

Common Components:

1. Lite On 32x12x40 CDRW Model LTR-32123S BLACK Color - $82
2.Lite-On 16x DVD Model LTD-163 Black - $54
3.MAXTOR 60GB 7200RPM Model # 6L060J3 - OEM -$90
4.Logitech Cordless Freedom Optical Keyboard and Mouse Bundle - $79
5.NEC MultiSync FE950+ BK 19" (BLACK) FLAT MONITOR - RETAIL - $295
6.D-Link 10/100 Mb PCI Ethernet NIC Adapter w/Wake on LAN Model DFE-530TX+ (Retail Version) - $10
7.Creative Labs Sound Blaster Audigy Xgamer - $84
8.GAINWARD/CARDEXPERT GeForce 4 Ti 4600, 2.8ns, Twin-DVI, 128MB DDR, Power pack and Golden Sample, VIVO. 2 DVI connectors + 2 CRT adaptors + a (3+1)-port IEEE1394 firewire card, OVERCLOCKING - $388
9.BLACK* PANASONIC 1.44 MB DENSITY FLOPPY DISK DRIVE, MODEL # JU-257A-907P - OEM - $12

Total for common components: $1100US

INTEL COMPONENTS:

1. ANTEC Performance PLUS Model PLUS660 (BLACK)- with Antec Original TRUE P4 Power Supply 330Watt - $91
2. Intel Pentium 4 2.0AGHz 512K Socket 478 Processor 400MHz Processor Bus OEM - $260
3. Intel Motherboard D850EMV2L for P4 478 Processors - $167
4. 2xSAMSUNG (Origional) 512MB RAMBUS 800Mhz ECC RIMM - RETAIL - 2x$232 = $464
5.Thermaltake DRAGON 478.(With Speed Control) Heatsink + Dual Ball-bearing 701X70X25 mm fan. FAN Speed: 6000±10% RPM. Max. Air Flow: 49.4CFM - $28

Total for Intel components: $1010US
Total for Intel System: $2110US

AMD COMPONENTS:

1. Not sure about case
2. AMD ATHLON XP 2100+/266 FSB PROCESSOR CPU - OEM - $235
3. Gigabyte GA-7VRX, VIA KT333 5P1A3D RETAIL - $96
4. 2xCORSAIR MEMORY CMX512-2700C2 PC2700 DDR RAM 333MHz w/ Heat Spreader - OEM - 2x$186 = $372
5. Thermaltake VOLCANO 7+. (With Fan Speed H.M.L RPM Setting Cable) Variable Fan Speed Control. TINY FIN TECHNOLOGY. High Ratio (36 fins). All Copper Material. 3-Pin with 4-Pin adaptor. Retail - $49

Total for AMD components: $752+case cost
Total for AMD System: $1852+case cost

Well there you go. The reason I chose the Intel D850E mobo is because you'll be able to go to 133MHZ FSB. That'll give you a 2.66GHz P4. That'll also give you PC1066 RDRAM. The Gainward video card will also o/c very well.

My firewall tastes like burning.

 

[Copenhagen]

<blockquote><font size=1>Svar på:</font><hr><p>The clawhammer will be releeased at pr3400+.<p><hr></blockquote><p>Anyone knows the PR rating for a P4 3.0GHz Northwood B ?

I don't think ClawHammer will provide any significant boost in performance compared to whatever Intel we be having at that time (both CPU and Chipset). Intel more or less knows what the ClawHammer can do, and is doing eveything they can to minimize the gap to Clawhammer when it launches.

<i>/Copenhagen - Clockspeed will make the difference... in the end</i>

 

[Copenhagen]

Just some comment to your P4 system.

I think it's a bit premature to buy a 2.0GHz Northwood A. Wait until the end of this month. And I think it's better and maybe even cheaper to buy the Retail version. The retail cooler has a high quality Sunflower heatsink and a low noise fan and you also get 3 years warranty.

Also watch out for 845G based motherboards, they could be a great bargain, nice performance and reasonable price.

Finally, there's no need to buy ECC RIMMS.



<i>/Copenhagen - Clockspeed will make the difference... in the end</i>

 

[FatBurger]

Whoa, slow down turbo.

The Intel one is mainly if your going to overclock.

Intel Motherboard D850EMV2L for P4 478 Processors - $167

Overclocking on an Intel motherboard? That's a first. The Abit TH7II at Newegg is $20 cheaper than that, too.

Why ECC RDRAM? You don't need that, save some cash.

And why the 2.0? For overclocking, grab a 1.6A.

Also, no need for the heatsink, the stock one works great, even with OCing.

You can use the same case for the AMD system, I'm not sure why you left that out.

<font color=blue>Hi mom!</font color=blue>

 

[bront]

Also, the TT Volcano 7 can fit on a P4 too, it comes with clips for both sockets.

Wouldn't a high end cooler help even more with OCing a P4?

Yes, don't do the Intel Board. It probably won't support Memory at 133 if Intel won't officialy.

I want to be your Opteron... Why don't you call my name - Peter Gabriel?

 

[bront]

you also get 3 years warranty.

Which you blow immediately by OCing the system.

I want to be your Opteron... Why don't you call my name - Peter Gabriel?

 

[FatBurger]

Wouldn't a high end cooler help even more with OCing a P4?

Maybe, but it most likely wouldn't be that big a difference, and the Dragon is loud (though sweet looking).

<font color=blue>Hi mom!</font color=blue>

 

[Spiritof55]

wow..so much info...chuck...thanks for your help...I can tell you put alot of time and effort into your post and I appreciate it. I've decided to buy a p4 system. Here is what I have so far:

mobo: Soyo Sy-p45645dx (supports 533hz fsb)
memory: corsair cmx512-2700c2 (ddr333 512 megs cas 2.0 with heat spreader)
hard disk: western digital 80 gigs ultra ata
sound card: soundblaster audigy gamer

So far thats it. I have a video card. Nothing has been ordered yet. The soyo board has nice overclocking options. Memory has me a bit confused. I found corsair 370mhz ddr chips on their website and not sure if this will be an option for me. I guess these chips were designed to take advantage of the 533 fsb. Oh well...I'm rambling and this is a cpu forum.

 

[lhgpoobaa]

question... is that the WD drive with 2mb (1200BB) or 8mb (1200JB)?
8mb one is alot better!

corsair even has PC3200 chips out now.
u really only need it if you are overclocking. gives you more ram headroom

<font color=purple>Be gentle with yourself, but not too gentle when browsing porn .</font color=purple>

 

[Spiritof55]

Its 2mb...about the chips, I might decide to try overclocking in the future. Never done it but its an option so I want the fastest memory I can get. I want a pc that will last me at least 2 years. Most of my time is spent with games. Once game requirements catch up to my new specs I'll search the net for more parts.