[SOLVED] Need help building a gaming PC

[Awe32]

Hi

I'm planning on having a gaming PC built for me and I would prefer (for warranty and other reasons) it to be built by https://www.jimms.fi/en/ in case you want to check their selection of components. There could be some other place in Finland too that offers similiar services, but I'm not really aware of any.

I'm probably aiming for the Black Friday. 2500 € for the PC and Win 11. The lower the better, obviously. The price for the display much depends on the PC cost, but let's say roughly 250-350 €.

Due to my previous experiences, and those of my friends, I'd really appreciate a PC which runs cool, due to good airflow and maybe lowish power consumption components.

I have thought about the components a little bit and I'll drop a list below. But I'm a rookie in this field. I don't want to overspend on something that I don't really need.

Do I care about the looks of the computer? Well, yes. But I doubt that I'd be able to find a nice clean looking white GPU, motherboard, case, memories etc. The selection available is just so poor. So it's not high on my list. And RGB isn't important either.


Oh right, and I'm not planning to OC. I don't know anything about that stuff so I'll stay away from it.

So, let's start:

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5600X or alternatively Intel 12600KF. 5700X and 5800X are an option as well, but everyone always told me that CPU is not where you want to overspend.
Motherboard: Honestly not sure yet. The selection available is bad and overpriced. Wifi, BT and decent audio (AC1220 or something) would be preferable.
GPU: RTX 3070 minimum, but I think Radeon 6800XT or even 6900XT are perhaps better value for the money right now? 6800XT is about the same price as 3070 ti right now and 6900XT the same as 3080. So, maybe even PowerColor Red Devil 6900XT?
RAM: 2x 8 GB Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200Mhz CL 16
SSD: Maybe Samsung 970 Evo Plus 1TB and 0,5TB.
PSU: What happened to their prices? Goodness.. Maybe Seasonic Focus GM-850.
Case: Good airflow. Thinking of NZXT H7 Flow or Fractal Design Meshify 2... I'm honestly not sure if I need a big case or if a slightly smaller one has a sufficient airflow. Like Fractal Design Meshify 2 compact. I have a big desk but many big cases are still too big for it.
Cooling: Well, I was considering an AIO for my GPU. That's usually the heat monster afterall.. And it sure would look cool to have an AIO for the CPU aswell then, but honestly, whatever gets the job done without blowing up my ears. Maybe DeepCool AK620 for CPU and otherwise just ArcticFreezer BioniX F140 casefans.
OS: Windows 11.

The funny thing is that I could get a rather decent DDR5, Z690, 12600KF combo for roughly the same money as 5600X combo. Is it worth it though? I don't know the answer to that question. It's just that even AM4 motherboards seem to be real expensive right now and DDR5 isn't that stupendously expensive so it's possible.

In general, I'd like to have a good solid gaming PC that would allow me to play mostly single player games probably on 1080p or 1440p resolution with good (but not necessarely hyper) graphics. Games like Mount & Blade, Baldur's Gate 3 etc. I don't even know what games are out there right now. It's been a long time since I played anything. And it's going to be a long time untill I get a new computer so some "future-proofing" is what I'm looking for. Hence the 6900XT for example. I'm sure that even 3060 would suffice for now, but maybe not after a year or two. Or three or four.

Thanks already for the help people!

 

[DavidM012]

Pcpartpicker.com. You can simulate the build to assess what else you could get for the money.

Well my view is if you build from components you simply save on labor and each component has a warranty. Prebuilds you have to send back for one or two problems which they always have - skimp on power supply, or cooler, or mobo. You only need to know which parts are compatible (and that windows 10 retires in 2025). If you don't know the parts you simply won't know how to troubleshoot it.

Mount & Blade will run on pentium on windows 95:

SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS

OS: Windows 2000/XP/Vista
Memory: 512 MB of RAM
Graphics: Graphics card with at least 64 MB memory
Hard Drive: 700 MB of hard disk space.



Baldur's gate 3:

Requires a 64-bit processor and operating system
OS: Windows 7 SP1 64-bit
Processor: Intel i5-4690 / AMD FX 4350
Memory: 8 GB RAM
Graphics: Nvidia GTX 780 / AMD Radeon R9 280X
DirectX: Version 11
Storage: 150 GB available space
Additional Notes: Default API is Vulkan 1.1. Directx11 API also provided. The minimum requirements might decrease over the course of Early Access, as performance improves.

Mildly amusing. Is it Worth to play 15 year old games on a new rig? It will kill the fps anyway.! They have moved on to DirectX 12 now.

Second hand is something to really avoid - a box of old parts with no warranty at all. Though ironically you could get those games to run on 'abandonware'.

Try Steam, EA (electronic arts), Origin and Ubisoft for some recent titles. Well basically if you buy a high end rig you can play modern games at high settings simple as that.

I've already played halo, homeworld, mass effect, tomb raider, far cry, x com, fallout etc. all sub hd and mostly shunned the 'remastered' versions and that was that. Well Halo remastered was nice. Once you know the story though.

Sooner or later you will run into technical problems with either software or hardware so try not to throw too much money at it until anyway you understand what you're doing and what you want. More is better but also more expensive. While some of the expense can be squared away with an economy of time. The 3000 series gpu is succeeded by the 4000 series, zen 2 was succeeded by zen 3, and 4, with 5 in the pipeline, 12th gen intel was succeeded by 13th gen... etc.

Only one or two generations of tech are 'all that compatible'. Zen 2 & 3 are socket compatible and intel 12th and 13th gen are socket compatible. Zen 4 is a new socket type so not upgradeable from zen 2&3.

So basically you're buying in to the current market - lo end is lo end, mid range is mid range and hi end is more expensive and will be for years to come.

Just think S, M and L like McDonalds or Burger King. Maybe you get an XL too.

 

[Awe32]

I'm not sure if I made myself clear. I know enough to pick components that are compatible - at least to the most part. I just need some tips on what to choose. Maybe also tips on how to handle the cooling. I realize that the more I spend, the better computer I get. But sometimes it's just not worth paying more. I'd like to be sure that the components that I choose are in balance together. That I don't spend too much on a CPU if the rest of the components won't benefit from that. And vice versa.

Since my last post, I did some research on GPUs and correct me if I'm wrong, but price aside, Nvidia GPUs seem to be generally speaking more balanced. At least with better DXR support, which might or might not be important. So I suppose RTX 3080 could still be a good contender for the GPU.

But anyway, I'd appreciate if someone could say if the components are or aren't in balance. Am I overspending on something?

 

[DavidM012]

Make a list on PC Partpicker & you can copy'n' paste the bb code here. There isn't much to choose from - the Ryzen 5800x3d is one of the best gaming cpus - can be used with 3600mhz cas 14 or 4000mhz cas 15 memory (the fastest & most expensive) although Intel 13th generation can beat it: Comparison Most people use cas 16 or 18 memory in the builds I've seen with it though - they tend not to go to the extra expense of the most optimal memory possible.

Some might prefer a 1000w seasonic focus for a 3080 because the 3000 series can produce transients. A 3060 is more of a low power 'so-so' card. So a 5800x3d would be better for a 3080.

Could also go for Corsair RM/RMi/RMx/HX/HXi/AX/AXi. 850w is ok with a 3080 because corsairs are said to handle 'transients' well.

The brewing problem with gpu power design.


Anything less than the top performers is less. Better value - you don't get much 'free'. No you pay for everything these days.

If all you wanna play is baldurs gate and mount and blade, you are overspending. Cyberpunk 2077 & Far Cry 6 with the hd texture pack are some of the most demanding games at the moment.

If however you opted for a 4000 series gpu - you'd probably want to pair it with Intel 13th gen. Intel has the lead at the moment. If you wanted a 4000 series you will also need to seriously consider a 1200w ATX 3.0 power supply.

The easiest approach is to look at the recommended requirements games you want to play. With what you've said so far, practically any lo-end or mid range PC will run mount and blade or baldur's gate easily.

So if you don't want to spend much money build a basic zen 2 system that works ok at 1080p @ 60hz. As time goes on new releases will have more features to leverage the hi-end. Many games also target the lo and mid range and can be played on practically anything.

I already played all the Batman Arkham series though it looks amazing on a 4090 I wouldn't pay thousands to make it look nicer.

If you build a hi end pc now it'll probably still be quite hi end for a few years and lo end will be lo-end for a few years. That's just the way the scalability works.

Here's some benchmarks - though you 'could' play all those games at 720p.

 

[Why_Me]

Pop Mini Air

Fractal fuse flair with function in the new Pop series of cases that doesn’t skimp on aesthetics or flexibility. The entire series offers a solid foundation and excellent build quality, giving all users plenty of options and room to maneuver.

www.fractal-design.com

https://www.jimms.fi/en/Product/Sho...-tg-clear-tint-ikkunallinen-tornikotelo-musta
Fractal Design Pop Mini Air RGB Black €129.90

or ...

https://www.jimms.fi/en/Product/Sho...rgb-white-tg-clear-tint-matx-kotelo-valkoinen
Fractal Design Pop Mini Air RGB White €129.90

https://www.jimms.fi/en/Product/Sho...d4/asus-tuf-gaming-b660m-plus-d4-matx-emolevy
Asus TUF Gaming B660M-PLUS D4 €169.90

TUF GAMING B660M-PLUS D4｜Motherboards｜ASUS Global

TUF Gaming series distills essential elements of the latest AMD and Intel® platforms, and combines them with game-ready features and proven durability. Engineered with military-grade components, an upgraded power solution and a comprehensive set of cooling options, this motherboard delivers...

www.asus.com

https://www.jimms.fi/en/Product/Sho...el-core-i5-12400f-lga1700-2-50-ghz-18mb-boxed
Intel Core i5-12400F €239.90

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...2400f-processor-18m-cache-up-to-4-40-ghz.html

https://www.jimms.fi/en/Product/Show/181792/r-ak400-bknnmn-g-1/deepcool-ak400-prosessorijaahdytin
DeepCool AK400 CPU Cooler €39.90

https://www.jimms.fi/en/Product/Sho...b-vengeance-lpx-ddr4-3600mhz-cl18-1-35v-musta
Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3600MHz 32GB (2x16GB) CL18 €139.90

https://www.jimms.fi/en/Product/Sho...levy-m-2-2280-pcie-3-0-x4-nvme-3500-3300-mb-s
Samsung 970 EVO Plus 2TB M.2 PCIe 3.0 x4 NVMe SSD €239.90

i5 12400 / 12400F gaming benchmarks.

 

[geofelt]

Your thoughts are reasonable.
As to cpu selection,
The 5600X and 12600K are somewhat comparable:
Here is a review of the 12600K. It includes the 5600x and others:
https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/core_i5_12600k_processor_review,21.html

I notice that the web site you linked also offers the 13600K which I think will become the go to processor for gamers.
Here is some cpu-Z single thread numbers:
https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/intel-core-i9-13900k-review,13.html

If you go that way, you can save some money by opting for the B660 or Z690 based DDR4 versions of motherboards.
There is very little difference in performance between ddr4 and ddr5 ram. But ddr5 parts are more expensive.

There is a fractal design torrent case that comes with two front 180mm intakes.
https://www.newegg.com/black-fractal-design-torrent-atx-mid-tower/p/N82E16811352143?quicklink=true
It comes with two quiet 180mm intakes.
That case would provide the best cooling airflow of all the fractal cases.
There is plenty of room for a big air cooler like the Noctua NH-D15.
If you want better than the NH-D15, you are looking at a 360 size aio.
More commonly the meshify 2 cases come with two 140mm front intakes and that is still good.
For example the compact:
https://www.newegg.com/black-fractal-design-meshify-2-compact-atx-mid-tower/p/N82E16811352140

 

[Awe32]

I notice that the web site you linked also offers the 13600K which I think will become the go to processor for gamers.
Here is some cpu-Z single thread numbers:
https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/intel-core-i9-13900k-review,13.html

If you go that way, you can save some money by opting for the B660 or Z690 based DDR4 versions of motherboards.
There is very little difference in performance between ddr4 and ddr5 ram. But ddr5 parts are more expensive.

So they do. This must be a new update. It wasn't available before. The funny thing is that 12600K and 13600K cost practically the same (in that shop). 12400 is also a very viable choise for its price, just like Why_Me tipped. I think 5600X, 12400F and 13600K are all tempting, but it may be a matter of how affordable yet decent motherboard I can find for them.

I do want a motherboard with good thermals, decent audio codec (AC1220 or higher), BT, Wi-Fi (although they can be bought separately) and just decent external ports etc. The selection right now isn't great. I'd probably be happy with either one of the three CPUs listed above, but it's down to the motherboard right now and the price to value of the combo.

DDR5 in that shop is actually not that stupendously expensive. 2x8GB DDR5 Kingston Fury Beast 4800Mhz CL38 is 110 €, compared to 2x8GB DDR4 Kingston Fury Beast 3200 Mhz CL16 which is 80 €. Sure, there's a difference, but it's trivial compared to what the PC in total would cost. DDR5 motherboards aren't that expensive either. My point is just that if DDR5 and 13600K would be "future proofing" for a reasonable little extra price, then it's something to consider I guess? But if CPU isn't that important for gaming, surfing and a bit of excel, then maybe it isn't worth it.

The Meshify2 case is an outstanding case for air cooling and hot graphics cards. It comes with two quiet 180mm intakes.
There is plenty of room for a big air cooler like the Noctua NH-D15.
If you want better than the NH-D15, you are looking at a 360 size aio.

Do you mean the standard Meshify 2 or Meshify 2 compact? Would compact be enough? Smaller size would be nice, but airflow (or rather cooling) is still my main focus. Fractal Design Mini Pop Air is a bit too small for me though! It limits too much my choises of purchase for components, given the bad availability of GPUs for example. Just too pro for me!

CPU/motherboard aside, I think the biggest question that remains is the GPU. Geforce seems to be more all-around while Radeon seems to be better value for the money in terms of speed that is. RTX 3070, 3070 Ti or 3080 or perhaps 6800XT or 6900XT. What do you think? Lower power consumption is always welcome of course, given the energy prices and better thermals.

 

[geofelt]

I made an error in my previous post #6 ; it has been corrected.
Size of a case does not define good cooling.
In fact, a smaller case will provide better cooling, other things being equal.
MATX size will usually be cheaper as will the motherboard.
The main difference is that you will only get 4 expansion slots vs.7.
The best way to compare cases is to find them on newegg.
Then select up to 6 candidates and select compare.
You will get a side to side comparison of specs.

 

[Awe32]

Size of a case does not define good cooling.
In fact, a smaller case will provide better cooling, other things being equal.

Do you mean that i.e. if a small case has 3 fans, it'll have better cooling performance than a similiar bigger case with 3 fans in same positions? I suppose I might go with a Meshify 2 Compact then. I like to keep it full ATX though, that way I have a better selection of components to choose from (bigger GPUs, motherboards etc). Torrent is of course nice too.

CPU | AMD Ryzen 5 5600X 3.7 GHz 6-Core Processor
CPU Cooler | Deepcool AK620 68.99 CFM CPU Cooler
Motherboard | MSI MAG X570S TOMAHAWK MAX WIFI ATX AM4 Motherboard
Memory | Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 CL18 Memory
Storage | Samsung 970 Evo Plus 500 GB M.2-2280 PCIe 3.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive
Storage | Samsung 970 Evo Plus 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 3.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive
Video Card | PowerColor Red Devil Ultimate Radeon RX 6900 XT 16 GB Video Card
Case | Fractal Design Meshify 2 Compact TG Light Tint ATX Mid Tower Case
Power Supply | SeaSonic FOCUS PLUS 850 Gold 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply
Operating System | Microsoft Windows 11 Home OEM - DVD 64-bit
Case Fan | ARCTIC BioniX F140 104 CFM 140 mm Fan
Case Fan | ARCTIC BioniX F140 104 CFM 140 mm Fan
Case Fan | ARCTIC BioniX F140 104 CFM 140 mm Fan

Fine, I tried the PC Part Picker. And came up with this (which is just about the same as the list that I wrote in first place). But at least it's updated now. Nothing's quite final but that's the general idea of what I was planning. There are other good case fans, PSUs, motherboards, SSD, cases, CPU coolers and even CPUs too.

But I was just wondering if there's any reason to opt for a better CPU now since I don't do streaming or multi-tasking? There's the Intel option ofc, but 12600K and 13600K are probably more than I need? Intel option would probably be 11400F then.

And what about the GPU?

PowerColor Red Devil 6800 XT is 730 €
PowerColor Red Devil Ultimate 6900 XT is 900 €
Asus Tuf Gaming RTX 3070 is 730 €
Palit RTX 3070 Ti Gaming Pro is 770 €
Asus Tuf Gaming RTX 3080 is 960 €

Looks to me that 3070 is out of the game as 3070 Ti is almost the same price (depends on the model of course). 3080 and 6900 XT are a big step up so it could be 6800 XT vs. 3070 Ti. But I'm eager to hear your opinions.

We're talking about the prices on https://www.jimms.fi/en

 

[DavidM012]

Samsung 980 pro 500gb & 1tb is actually cheaper on that site than the 970 & the Corsair tx 850m is about 20 cheaper than the seasonic.

Don't want to mess about too much but they don't have the msi b550 pro vd-h on your site which came out on top of the budget boards and should be able to handle a 5600x fine. Downside it only has 1 M.2 rather than 2.

Still you'd save some euros simply by going that with 1 x 1tb 980 pro. Or even a 1 x 2tb 980 pro for maximum durability and data thruput on the nvme.

Also have a look at the gaming nvme review - the wd sn850 black is a gaming nvme that's faster but the samsung 980 pro is more power efficient (have to dig up it's review too). Only making sure you're aware of the competition.

Looked at the G.Skill trident z neo cas 14 compatibility but something odd going on since the qvl only supports 3800mhz kit at cas 14 which is ( F4-3800C14Q-32GTZN 4x8 )rather than 3600mhz or a 64gb kit which is 8x8gb dimms which isn't possible since there's only 4 dimm slots so how could it be on the compatibility list? And 64gb is more than you want anyway and there aren't any 16gb cas 14 kits on the list. So you'd have to do 32gb for that and your site has a limited range of trident z neo. Price and availability on compliant cas 14 does not look too good for the pro vd-h though.

Ok so going past the barmy confusing documentation for a pro vd-h . Though I'd have liked a shot at cas 14 3600mhz memory for it, it does not appear to be exactly compliant (3200mhz is when 3600mhz is preferred for zen 3) so stick with your corsair vengeance lpx cas 18 if you're happy with that.

The 6800xt has the edge over the 3070ti on gpu monkey benchmarks. and the ti for the same price. Ok not exact, You don't get dlss with amd if that's important to you. That's nvidia's upscaling technology.

Anyway better post something before spend to much time on trivial details.

3 things you could do to save a coupla euros on it: 1. Corsair Tx 850m , 2 Samsung 980 pro

3. Mobo - b550 pro vd-h.

May be more tweaks if you want to spend some time digging away at it. Maybe a 5700x instead of a 5600x. They have a bundle of an msi mobo, mem and 5800x3d for 699 euro on your site. Not sure if that's value or not.

If you can't find a msi pro b550 vd-h well don't confuse it with a b560 variant which is Intel.

 

[logainofhades]

You have the budget to get a pretty solid system, though you might want to wait and see what RDNA3 brings to the table. The difference between a 6800xt and 6900xt isn't massive, so I went with it, to use the savings elsewhere. Just barely under the max total budget for system and monitor.

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i7-13700K 3.4 GHz 16-Core Processor (€569.90 @ Jimm's)
CPU Cooler: Deepcool AK620 68.99 CFM CPU Cooler (€77.90 @ Jimm's)
Motherboard: MSI PRO Z690-A WIFI ATX LGA1700 Motherboard (€296.00 @ Jimm's)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-5200 CL40 Memory (€199.90 @ Jimm's)
Storage: ADATA XPG GAMMIX S70 2 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive (€239.90 @ Jimm's)
Video Card: PowerColor Red Devil OC Radeon RX 6800 XT 16 GB Video Card (€729.90 @ Jimm's)
Case: Fractal Design Pop Air ATX Mid Tower Case (€109.90 @ Jimm's)
Power Supply: Corsair RM850x (2021) 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply (€164.90 @ Jimm's)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 11 Home OEM - DVD 64-bit (€135.00 @ Jimm's)
Monitor: Gigabyte G27Q 27.0" 2560 x 1440 144 Hz Monitor (€319.00 @ Jimm's)
Total: €2842.30
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2022-10-28 04:04 EEST+0300
]

 

[Awe32]

3 things you could do to save a coupla euros on it: 1. Corsair Tx 850m , 2 Samsung 980 pro

3. Mobo - b550 pro vd-h.

May be more tweaks if you want to spend some time digging away at it. Maybe a 5700x instead of a 5600x. They have a bundle of an msi mobo, mem and 5800x3d for 699 euro on your site. Not sure if that's value or not.

The site actually tells how much you'll save with those bundles (hard to notice, it's highlighted in yellow). Usually it's very, very little. And you don't get to choose the memory so it's usually the cheapest Kingston.

Like you noticed aswell, the selection right now isn't great and availability is even worse. Corsair PSU is indeed a strong contender and there may be some other SSD too that are viable choises. That RAM may not be my first choise, but at Jimms.fi Corsair Vengeance LPX is usually rather cleverly priced, unlike many other RAM. But I'll look into it later when I get the big picture right.

My original choise for a mobo was MSI B550 Gaming Edge Wifi, but it's currently unavailable. I also noticed that B550 is quite overpriced at the present moment.

You have the budget to get a pretty solid system, though you might want to wait and see what RDNA3 brings to the table. The difference between a 6800xt and 6900xt isn't massive, so I went with it, to use the savings elsewhere. Just barely under the max total budget for system and monitor.

CPU: Intel Core i7-13700K 3.4 GHz 16-Core Processor (€569.90 @ Jimm's)
CPU Cooler: Deepcool AK620 68.99 CFM CPU Cooler (€77.90 @ Jimm's)
Motherboard: MSI PRO Z690-A WIFI ATX LGA1700 Motherboard (€296.00 @ Jimm's)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-5200 CL40 Memory (€199.90 @ Jimm's)
Storage: ADATA XPG GAMMIX S70 2 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive (€239.90 @ Jimm's)
Video Card: PowerColor Red Devil OC Radeon RX 6800 XT 16 GB Video Card (€729.90 @ Jimm's)
Case: Fractal Design Pop Air ATX Mid Tower Case (€109.90 @ Jimm's)
Power Supply: Corsair RM850x (2021) 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply (€164.90 @ Jimm's)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 11 Home OEM - DVD 64-bit (€135.00 @ Jimm's)
Monitor: Gigabyte G27Q 27.0" 2560 x 1440 144 Hz Monitor (€319.00 @ Jimm's)
Total: €2842.30

That's certainly an interesting alternative for sure. And if 13700K is replaced with 12600K, I could save 169,90 € and 140 € if replaced by 13600K. And DavidM012 suggested 5700X. My question is though: does CPU really make that much a difference in gaming? Is Ryzen 7 that much better than Ryzen 5? Or i7 better than i5?

 

[Why_Me]

The site actually tells how much you'll save with those bundles (hard to notice, it's highlighted in yellow). Usually it's very, very little. And you don't get to choose the memory so it's usually the cheapest Kingston.

Like you noticed aswell, the selection right now isn't great and availability is even worse. Corsair PSU is indeed a strong contender and there may be some other SSD too that are viable choises. That RAM may not be my first choise, but at Jimms.fi Corsair Vengeance LPX is usually rather cleverly priced, unlike many other RAM. But I'll look into it later when I get the big picture right.

My original choise for a mobo was MSI B550 Gaming Edge Wifi, but it's currently unavailable. I also noticed that B550 is quite overpriced at the present moment.



That's certainly an interesting alternative for sure. And if 13700K is replaced with 12600K, I could save 169,90 € and 140 € if replaced by 13600K. And DavidM012 suggested 5700X. My question is though: does CPU really make that much a difference in gaming? Is Ryzen 7 that much better than Ryzen 5? Or i7 better than i5?

I rarely advise people to wait but it's going to be a game changer when Intel releases the B760 boards and locked cpu's this January such as the i5 13400 / 13400F and i7 13700 / 13700F.

 

[DavidM012]

The hi end is money to burn and don't care about unused capacity. A 24 or 32 thread cpu with a high single threaded score is a temptation to gamers really. It's more buff but if you're only using 10 threads, it's volume that may or might never be filled by apps & games later on.

You get a more all round computer & could do more multi tasking, faster compression and video editing and so on, while the gaming impact isn't so clear cut.

While some are using a 5600x with a 4090 - it can be done but it's probably not going to fully utilize a 4090 either.

If you try to build tighter then there's value for money although not quite as buff while some might say you can't really see the difference.

And emerging technologies like ddr5, rdna 3, pci-e 5.0 will also make the market look different in future.

I look at it as S, M, L, and XL. It all depends on what you want and how much you're going to use. It makes sense more when you simply have to buy a new PC rather than 'side-grading'.

You buy into the current market and just take a look around to see if there's any better deals for the same money but there can be only one so you'll have to compromise at some point.

 

[logainofhades]

That's certainly an interesting alternative for sure. And if 13700K is replaced with 12600K, I could save 169,90 € and 140 € if replaced by 13600K. And DavidM012 suggested 5700X. My question is though: does CPU really make that much a difference in gaming? Is Ryzen 7 that much better than Ryzen 5? Or i7 better than i5?

13600k would be a fine choice as well. Yes CPU does still matter.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spf9ZDuhpao&t=791s

 

[Awe32]

13600k would be a fine choice as well. Yes CPU does still matter.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spf9ZDuhpao&t=791s

Most people have always told me that CPU basically doesn't matter. And indeed, I have no need for a good CPU for streaming, multi-tasking, video editing or anything like that. The only tool that I need is Excel. Other than that it's just surfing in the Internet and gaming that I'm looking for.

But it's interesting to hear that the CPU still matters. 6800 XT would propably be okay with 5600X though, or 11600K, but 13600K (which is much cheaper than 13700K) is certainly a tempting alternative because I probably wouldn't have to upgrade my CPU, mobo or memory in a few years time. I could only buy something like RTX 4090 and the PC would be again rather balanced.

Shame that the AMD alternative, the Ryzen 7000 series, is more or less out of the competition thanks to poor availability on mobos. Otherwise 7600X would be cheaper than 13600K.

I think this question is close to being answered. There's a question of DDR4 vs DDR5 (Ryzen 5000 series vs. Intel 13th gen), but it's probably a bit difficult to answer. Then there's the question of which GPU. It seems like there's no reason to spend nearly 200 € extra on RTX 3080 or 6900 XT, so it's just 3070 Ti vs. 6800 XT. It was pointed out above that 6800 XT is faster. So even with DXR and DLSS 3070 Ti isn't quite as good as 6800 XT? I know, it depends on what games I'd play and whether I care about ray tracing, but still.

 

[Awe32]

So I played around with few options. I think I'll "build" four different options for me to choose from. AMD DDR4, Intel DDR4, AMD DDR5 and Intel DDR5.

Well the situation with the Z690 DDR5 boards is horrible, but I'm expecting some boards to turn up soon. However, it turned out that the price for AMD 7600X + B650 MSI Tomahawk and Intel 13600K with Asus Prime Z690-A or Asus Rog Strix B660-F is just about the same.

Any thoughts on 7600X vs 13600K? 7600X looked like it had higher power efficiency and overall lower power consumption.

And also, a question about the memory. Last year 2x 8GB seemed like enough, but now two of you recommended 2x 16GB. Is this a necessary upgrade or would 2x8GB suffice?

 

[DavidM012]

The reason for going for 32gb kit now is so that you don't buy 1 16gb kit now and then try to upgrade it later by adding another 16gb kit. Two kits may be incompatible since kits have to be matched by the vendor (original equipment manufacturer or OEM).

Also given enough time the model number of the memory kit you choose now might be retired and re-used with a different variety of memory chips so if you bought two kits of the same model number some years apart they could be totally different modules.

So you might want 32gb since we're reaching the point where things are starting to grow, however everything that has worked to date on 16gb will continue to work with 16gb - it's whether developers decide to up the ante which can happen with the new generation of hardware.

However it's also unlikely that they will target only the hi end as that is a rather narrow market. Memory would have to become a lot cheaper. A case in point: Metro Exodus also has an Enhanced Edition that won't run unless you have a ray tracing GPU.

You can play the game in the standard version and get to know the story. However as a matter of opinion the game is quite unoriginal - Zombies and Monsters. It's Fallout 4 with 10 zombies or monsters per scene, unskippable dialogue and cut scenes that simply extend the hours played, and the principle cause of death is drowning because you can't swim in heavy armor.

The idea was to make you watch the story apparently. Maybe the novel was good but the game is lame. Worth paying over the odds for ray tracing gfx? Not in my humble opinion. If you could filter zombies half the steam store would fall off. Half life 2 - Zombies is what made it.

Half Life Alyx: You needed a $400 vr headset to play when it launched. Now it's been modded so you can use keyboard. But you can't play it with conventional wasd controls. Well who wants to do that boring old wasd configuration any more? I'm sure that there are more keys in range of rdfg.

The point: Developers can decide to implement some sort of new widget that makes you go boggle eyed for which there is no evidence, and mobile phones don't microwave your brain. And no one is there to say, no.

Before going into rant: Quartermaster, out.

 

[DavidM012]

Oh yes and the mutant gorillas are hard to kill and use up all your ammo when part of the plot is 'survival' where it's rather hard to scrape together enough scrap to manufacture ammo which you can do without accidentally blowing up your gun from overfilling a cartridge with powder. So it's not all that gritty. Then I found a trainer for metro last light redux so you don't have to reload or run out of ammo. You can blast your way through every scene with a heavy shotgun.

Some games you only basically have to hold down the left mouse button and it more or less plays itself. Red Faction Armageddon was like that. New Game+ lets you keep all the unlocked weapons in a new game and they even included a my little pony gun which was literally a my little pony which fired rainbows called Mr. Toots.

Seriously at 1440p? Could've done that on a Pentium. (almost). Things are ok if you don't pause to wonder why. Some games have the interactivity of an etch-a-sketch.

Everspace is another nice looking game engine but after a while it feels like a supermarket dash rather than a space sim. Your ship is a trolley that you roll around the scene to pick up crafting resources. Once you can shoot pirates with the ancient sniper gun from 4.5 klicks, nothing is a problem.

Maybe there are some more serious games that are engaging. But they don't last long. Too short, too long and if you filter things in Steam (again) well even X-Com 2 gets filtered even though it has no discernable adult content apart from cyber violence. The filter is broken I think.

And when they modded and updated X-Com 2 with dlc, what did you get? The Lost. A.k.a Zombies.

 

[RodroX]

Considering the GPUs you named and the ones listed by other forum members I'm thinking going for at least a 1440p high refresh rate display is the right option.

At that point, any moder Core i5/i7 or Ryzen 5/7 will give you awesome performance (and very similar in most games, some game may run better on Intel, other on AMD).

Right now both 12th/13th gen intel and Zen 3 (Ryzen 5000 series) are death platforms. The only advantage you get by going with intel is if you get a DDR5 motherboard, then you can keep your RAM for the next build.

Zen 4 motherboard (Ryzen 7000 series), which should be used till at least 2025 are still expensive, this may or not change in the future, no ones know for sure.


Juts get a good GPU + a good PSU, 16/32 GB of RAM, a good and fast SSD, and then a decent CPU and a good display and enjoy!

About the PC Case, I know there are better ones out there, and some may be easier to work with, but for the price and the building quality, Im very happy with my beQuiet Pure Base 500DX. Lots of space, comes with 3 pre-installed 140mm fan, mesh and filters everywehere, good airflow keep all my components at good temps.

 

[Awe32]

I checked PC Builder's YouTube video on CPU/GPU combos, by the way. Thanks for tips above! Jason was recommending 5600X for anything up to 6900XT/3080. So in a way 5600X is still good enough for my build right now. But if I did want to upgrade my GPU in next few years, the CPU wouldn't really allow this possibility. That could be just fine though.

Zen 4 motherboard (Ryzen 7000 series), which should be used till at least 2025 are still expensive, this may or not change in the future, no ones know for sure.

7600X is around 390 euros where I live. That's 10 euros less than 12600K, 20 euros less than 5800X3D and 40 euros less than 13600K. I think there doesn't really excist any price difference between the four, which is a bit weird. Which one of the four would be the best? I think it's safe to drop out 12600K because 5800X3D beats it in DDR4 setup and 7600X beats it in DDR5 setup.

Right now both 12th/13th gen intel and Zen 3 (Ryzen 5000 series) are death platforms. The only advantage you get by going with intel is if you get a DDR5 motherboard, then you can keep your RAM for the next build.

That's what I was considering, yes. Most people say that one shouldn't try to "future proof" his build and there's no sense in buying a faster CPU than you need. But if I bought a DDR4 mobo and a CPU like Ryzen 5600X or Intel 11600K, in the next upgrade I'd almost certainly have to upgrade my GPU, CPU, motherboard and RAM (and that's expensive). If I'd buy a DDR5 mobo, DDR5 RAM and 7600X or 13600K, I'd imagine that the next upgrade would only include a new GPU.

But who knows about the future really?

Juts get a good GPU + a good PSU, 16/32 GB of RAM, a good and fast SSD, and then a decent CPU and a good display and enjoy!

About the PC Case, I know there are better ones out there, and some may be easier to work with, but for the price and the building quality, Im very happy with my beQuiet Pure Base 500DX. Lots of space, comes with 3 pre-installed 140mm fan, mesh and filters everywehere, good airflow keep all my components at good temps.

I'll check out the case. As for the PSU though, any opinion on what a proper size would be?

 

[RodroX]

@Awe32

If I was in your place, with those prices you listed, then I would try to get a mobo with DDR5 suport, then get at least a DDR5 5200MT/s kit for AMD, and a 5600MT/s for Intel (going for 6200MT/s is very expensive this days, at least where I live).
Then pick either a Ryzen 5 7600X or Core i5 13600K (you know the difference between them so I'm not going to repeat it again). Remember to check the motherboard QVL for the memory to be sure the RAM kit is included in it.

For the PSU I agree with others here, the Corsair RM850X is a pretty solid choice from the brand. Seasonic also have some pretty good models.

And yes do not worry to much about the future, next year if AMD really launch the new Zen 4 X3D chips, then any CPU you pick today will most likely be slower lol! (rumor mill!)

Theres always something new on the horizon, so better look to whats closer today.

 

[Awe32]

@Awe32
Theres always something new on the horizon, so better look to whats closer today.

That's right. I was going to get a new PC last year but the component shortage stopped me. Well, things aren't looking better right now and while we can't foresee the future, there's a good chance that things won't be getting much better in the next couple of years. But I remember how last year people told me to wait for the new 3D v-cache which would change everything. And then AMD launched their 7000-series. 12th gen Intel CPUs were so new a year ago that many people adviced against them. Now there's 13th gen. People were talking about PCI-e 4.0, now they're talking about PCI-e 5.0.

So there's always something new coming up. While it makes some sense to wait for some big new innovations, one just cannot wait forever.

I have a feeling that going with the AM4/LGA1200 mobo + DDR4 is not the best choise right now. They are are still great, but DDR5 has been around for a year now and while Ryzen 5000-series might serve me well, or 11th gen Intel, there's no room for future upgrade at all. And I did some calculations and going with the 13600K or 7600X with 32GB DDR5 instead of 11400F or 5600X and 16GB of DDR4 would "only" add about 10-15% to the cost of the PC. That's a lot of money but AM5/LGA1700 will allow more room for future upgrades and both the CPU and RAM are one generation newer, if it counts.

I also feel that while 6800 XT GPU is maybe a bit too little for a 13600K or 7600X, it's still not a great investment to spend extra 200 € for 6900 XT or 3080. Just a feeling though.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/f3YRhk

PCPartPicker Part List

Type|Item|Price
:----|:----|:----
CPU | AMD Ryzen 5 7600X 4.7 GHz 6-Core Processor |
CPU Cooler | Deepcool AK620 68.99 CFM CPU Cooler |
Motherboard | MSI MAG B650 TOMAHAWK WIFI ATX AM5 Motherboard |
Memory | Corsair Vengeance 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-5200 CL40 Memory |
Storage | Samsung 970 Evo Plus 500 GB M.2-2280 PCIe 3.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive |
Storage | Samsung 970 Evo Plus 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 3.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive |
Video Card | PowerColor Red Devil OC Radeon RX 6800 XT 16 GB Video Card |
Case | Fractal Design Meshify 2 Compact White TG Clear Tint ATX Mid Tower Case |
Power Supply | Corsair RM850x (2021) 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply |
Operating System | Microsoft Windows 11 Home OEM - DVD 64-bit |
| Generated by PCPartPicker 2022-11-07 05:19 EST-0500 |

Total price around 2400 euros. With 11400F, 16GB DDR4 and a similiar mobo, it's around 2100 euros. With 5600X, 16GB DDR4 and a similiar mobo it's around 2150 euros. Just the list prices, there's probably some room for discount there. But that'll give the general idea. And this is the Finnish prices of course. In USA the markets could be something completely different.

 

[DavidM012]

14th Gen will be q4 2023 so 1 year to go

People also ask

How long will LGA 1700 be supported?


Intel 13th Gen chips may be the last to support LGA 1700, and we might see the socket's fall from grace in the last quarter of 2023 with the entry of Meteor Lake, Intel's 14th Gen CPUs. Rumors speculate that 14th Gen chips will introduce an LGA socket with 2551 pins instead of the current 1700

There will be a last batch of multiplier locked 13th gen cpus in a couple of months and maybe a special edition 13900k(s), and that'll be lga 1700.


AM5 will be supported to 2025 and beyond - clearly the most upgradable however a 14th gen Intel cpu with 2551 pins is probably going to exceed it, so it is a tough time to buy a PC at the moment if you hope for it to last 5 years waiting 1 more year for a full metal jacket upgrade doesn't seem too unreasonable if you can hold on for the moment. Well I'm shocked that my PC has lasted 7 years and it's a heap but I only paid £200 for the cpu, mem and mobo so I can't complain about meh money's worth.

The 3d vcache will be interesting on zen 4 but it also depends what software will release in tandem and well the question is do you want to be paying again for a 3d Zen 4 cpu - or faster ddr5 memory when it releases - because at the moment the 5800x3d can exceed Zen 4 for gaming fps, if not for applications/productivity performance.

Anyway I'm not a fan of spending $$$ on pc components - I bought my first PC for £1000 and it sold for £100 and also expensive parts are difficult to replace after the warranty expires - many considerations there are to deliberate over.

Meanwhile I can do most things, browse the web, word processing, and still lots of plenty of games I've never played are compatible with my current heap. Like Star Wars: Jedi Fallen order - when it released it was hitting the shelves at £50. now £7 in a sale - worth a mention because that's funny business to my mind. Well if all you have to do is wait, than pay thousands and then hundreds on top for games, I think I'll wait a bit.

Besides there have only been a couple of times when I was severely annoyed about PC gaming - first was when Halo was windows vista only or something, when I went from ME, 2000, to XP. then 7 -> 10. I do see happening maybe games that will be windows 11 only or something eventually.

Then there was Half Life: Alyx as I mentioned so you pay thousands for a PC, then hundreds for a collection of games that go on sale for under £10 then - you are Required to purchase a $4-500 VR headset to play One (1) game, after waiting years for a sequel to hl2 episode 2. Waiting for Half Life 3 is officially a dumb way to die in the Portal edition of Dumb ways to Die.

Now you could play half life: alyx with a keyboard. They said both was interesting but there might be sections of the game where you have to cheat because of otherwise impassable obstacles without vr, so don't know if I even want now.

Obviously nowadays the drives are going to get a bit harder to port across to new builds as they have a 5 year warranty and then might not last beyond it so at some point nearly every upgrade is going to be a new pc if you're waiting 5 years between builds anyway.

Also there are conversations about Nvidia still being preferable to AMD and yet still - the rdna 3 GPU is set to release in a month - which may be a rival to the 4000 series without the 12vhpwr fiasco since AMD isn't going be using the atx 3.0 12vhpwr connector on the 7000 series gpu.

So there are a few fairly seismic market - shuffling events queuing up at this particular moment - these days, well maybe now is simply a time when it so happens lots of interesting new technologies are all emerging at once.

The pace seems to have stepped up and accelerated since the ddr 3 era when basically pretty much anything worked as an upgrade. Well there's been 3 generations of Zen CPU and intel 3rd -13th gen in the windows 10 era and most of them were all quite beefy upgrades from what had been before.

So a pause for thought might be in order at this particular moment if it wasn't before.

 

[RodroX]

That's right. I was going to get a new PC last year but the component shortage stopped me. Well, things aren't looking better right now and while we can't foresee the future, there's a good chance that things won't be getting much better in the next couple of years. But I remember how last year people told me to wait for the new 3D v-cache which would change everything. And then AMD launched their 7000-series. 12th gen Intel CPUs were so new a year ago that many people adviced against them. Now there's 13th gen. People were talking about PCI-e 4.0, now they're talking about PCI-e 5.0.

So there's always something new coming up. While it makes some sense to wait for some big new innovations, one just cannot wait forever.

I have a feeling that going with the AM4/LGA1200 mobo + DDR4 is not the best choise right now. They are are still great, but DDR5 has been around for a year now and while Ryzen 5000-series might serve me well, or 11th gen Intel, there's no room for future upgrade at all. And I did some calculations and going with the 13600K or 7600X with 32GB DDR5 instead of 11400F or 5600X and 16GB of DDR4 would "only" add about 10-15% to the cost of the PC. That's a lot of money but AM5/LGA1700 will allow more room for future upgrades and both the CPU and RAM are one generation newer, if it counts.

I also feel that while 6800 XT GPU is maybe a bit too little for a 13600K or 7600X, it's still not a great investment to spend extra 200 € for 6900 XT or 3080. Just a feeling though.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/f3YRhk

PCPartPicker Part List

Type|Item|Price
:----|:----|:----
CPU | AMD Ryzen 5 7600X 4.7 GHz 6-Core Processor |
CPU Cooler | Deepcool AK620 68.99 CFM CPU Cooler |
Motherboard | MSI MAG B650 TOMAHAWK WIFI ATX AM5 Motherboard |
Memory | Corsair Vengeance 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-5200 CL40 Memory |
Storage | Samsung 970 Evo Plus 500 GB M.2-2280 PCIe 3.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive |
Storage | Samsung 970 Evo Plus 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 3.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive |
Video Card | PowerColor Red Devil OC Radeon RX 6800 XT 16 GB Video Card |
Case | Fractal Design Meshify 2 Compact White TG Clear Tint ATX Mid Tower Case |
Power Supply | Corsair RM850x (2021) 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply |
Operating System | Microsoft Windows 11 Home OEM - DVD 64-bit |
| Generated by PCPartPicker 2022-11-07 05:19 EST-0500 |

Total price around 2400 euros. With 11400F, 16GB DDR4 and a similiar mobo, it's around 2100 euros. With 5600X, 16GB DDR4 and a similiar mobo it's around 2150 euros. Just the list prices, there's probably some room for discount there. But that'll give the general idea. And this is the Finnish prices of course. In USA the markets could be something completely different.

That seems like a decent build, be sure to check the RAM included is listed on the QVL for the MSI motherboard.

That cooler is massive, but I think it should fit over the RAM, far as I remember the Corsair Vengance are not that tall.

The RX 6800XT is an awesome GPU and should be plenty enough for 1440p high refresh rate.