Question Need help deciding an upgrade route

[libyanfire]

Hello all,
My parents bought me a Cyberpower prebuilt gaming PC for my graduation a couple years ago. It is the i5-9400f/gtx 1660 combo with a b360m xtreme motherboard. I am looking to make some upgrades but not sure whether the option I am thinking of is a viable one. I was thinking of purchasing one of the top 9th gen intel CPUs since those are compatible with the motherboard I have currently and replacing the 1660 with a 3060. I should also mention I currently have 16 gb RAM and am looking to upgrade that as well. Basically, what I am asking is this a viable route to upgrading my PC? I am looking to go this route because I think it will be more cost effective plus I can upgrade it part by part rather than having to replace the mobo and thus having to get the other parts sooner rather than later. Let me know please

 

[Lafong]

Cyberpower prebuilt............

It probably has a modest power supply and ordinary cooling.

I'd think twice about going to a "top 9th gen" CPU.

You ultimately have to decide how worthwhile it is to upgrade a prebuilt rather than cashing out and starting over with industry standard parts of your own choosing.

 

[Lutfij]

You might want to see what the make and model of the PSU is. Also how long is a couple as stated in your initial post?

 

[geofelt]

In what way is your current configuration not doing the job?
Games, for example may be limited by the cpu or the gpu.
To tell the difference, run this simple test:

Run YOUR games, but lower your resolution and eye candy.
This makes the graphics card loaf a bit.
If your FPS increases, it indicates that your cpu is strong enough to drive a better graphics configuration.
If your FPS stays the same, you are likely more cpu limited.

A graphics card upgrade is simple.
A 3060 card will use some 50w more power. And, one needs to allow for high power spikes with modern 3000 class cards.
A pre-built will only install the minimum power required for the initial configuration.
Likely you are looking for a 650w psu upgrade.

The cpu is more complex and may depend on the types of games that you play.
If you play cpu centric games like sims, MMO or strategy games then cpu performance is all important. Particularly the single thread performance of the master thread.
Run the cpu-Z bench and look at the single thread performance rating.
It should be about 452:
http://valid.x86.fr/bench/7szmu7
Probably the most viable cpu upgrade for your motherboard would be the I7-9700K which sells for $200 used on ebay.
You would get 8 threads and a single thread rating around 548.
A fair upgrade.
But, consider that a modern $150 13th gen cpu like the i3-13100 would give you a score of 678
A lga1700 motherboard might be $100.
You could keep your ddr4 ram.

Is 16gb enough? No game, by itself needs more.
The issue will come if you are also heavily multitasking.

To assess this, access task manager/resource monitor/memory tab/hard page fault column. Do this after pushing the pc hard. If the hard fault rate is zero or near to it, you have sufficient ram.

 

[logainofhades]

I would not put an i9 in that board. The VRM's will not handle such a power hungry chip. Honestly, I would switch out the whole platform. A 9900k is going to run you $300 by itself. For a similar cost, you could get a faster 5700x, and B550 board. Sticking with Intel, expect to pay at least $100 more, for 12th or 13th gen.

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 5700X 3.4 GHz 8-Core Processor ($179.00 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Thermalright Assassin King SE 66.17 CFM CPU Cooler ($23.40 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: ASRock B550M PG RIPTIDE Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard ($104.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $307.39
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-03-02 11:03 EST-0500


Edit:
A 6700xt is way faster, than a 3060, for a similar cost. Also included ram.

PCPartPicker Part List

Memory: Kingston FURY Beast 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory ($69.99 @ B&H)
Video Card: ASRock Challenger D OC Radeon RX 6700 XT 12 GB Video Card ($349.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $419.98
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-03-02 11:08 EST-0500

 

[helper800]

If you were to build your own from scratch, something like this would be a good place to start with Intel as a base:

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i5-13500 2.5 GHz 14-Core Processor ($268.00 @ B&H)
CPU Cooler: Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 SE 66.17 CFM CPU Cooler ($42.90 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: ASRock B760M Pro RS/D4 WiFi Micro ATX LGA1700 Motherboard ($129.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 CL18 Memory ($75.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Crucial P5 Plus 2 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive ($131.99 @ B&H)
Video Card: ASRock Challenger D OC Radeon RX 6700 XT 12 GB Video Card ($349.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Fractal Design Focus 2 ATX Mid Tower Case ($66.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA 750 G5 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($129.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $1195.83
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-03-02 11:07 EST-0500

If you were to go AMD 7000 something like this would be a good base:

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 7600 3.8 GHz 6-Core Processor ($229.00 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 SE 66.17 CFM CPU Cooler ($42.90 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Gigabyte B650M DS3H Micro ATX AM5 Motherboard ($149.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: Patriot Viper Black 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-5600 CL36 Memory ($114.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Crucial P5 Plus 2 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive ($131.99 @ B&H)
Video Card: ASRock Challenger D OC Radeon RX 6700 XT 12 GB Video Card ($349.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Fractal Design Focus 2 ATX Mid Tower Case ($66.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA 750 G5 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($129.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $1215.83
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-03-02 11:10 EST-0500

And for AMD 5000 something like this would be a good base. For another 130 dollars a 5800X3D could be a great option:

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 5700X 3.4 GHz 8-Core Processor ($179.00 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 SE 66.17 CFM CPU Cooler ($42.90 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: MSI B450-A PRO MAX ATX AM4 Motherboard ($89.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Crucial P5 Plus 2 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive ($131.99 @ B&H)
Video Card: ASRock Challenger D OC Radeon RX 6700 XT 12 GB Video Card ($349.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Fractal Design Focus 2 ATX Mid Tower Case ($66.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA 750 G5 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($129.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $990.84
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-03-02 11:13 EST-0500

 

[libyanfire]

Cyberpower prebuilt............

It probably has a modest power supply and ordinary cooling.

I'd think twice about going to a "top 9th gen" CPU.

You ultimately have to decide how worthwhile it is to upgrade a prebuilt rather than cashing out and starting over with industry standard parts of your own choosing.

My main question is how viable is upgrading my prebuilt? The main reason I am looking to upgrade my prebuilt rather than starting over is because I am not looking for a huge upgrade at the moment. I have just been noticing that my CPU usage is almost always at 100% when running games but I am using low graphics and FPS rate.

 

[libyanfire]

You might want to see what the make and model of the PSU is. Also how long is a couple as stated in your initial post?

https://www.amazon.com/Apevia-ATX-P...jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

This is the PSU I am pretty sure after doing some research. And this PC was purchased in April or May of 2020.

 

[libyanfire]

In what way is your current configuration not doing the job?
Games, for example may be limited by the cpu or the gpu.
To tell the difference, run this simple test:

Run YOUR games, but lower your resolution and eye candy.
This makes the graphics card loaf a bit.
If your FPS increases, it indicates that your cpu is strong enough to drive a better graphics configuration.
If your FPS stays the same, you are likely more cpu limited.

A graphics card upgrade is simple.
A 3060 card will use some 50w more power. And, one needs to allow for high power spikes with modern 3000 class cards.
A pre-built will only install the minimum power required for the initial configuration.
Likely you are looking for a 650w psu upgrade.

The cpu is more complex and may depend on the types of games that you play.
If you play cpu centric games like sims, MMO or strategy games then cpu performance is all important. Particularly the single thread performance of the master thread.
Run the cpu-Z bench and look at the single thread performance rating.
It should be about 452:
http://valid.x86.fr/bench/7szmu7
Probably the most viable cpu upgrade for your motherboard would be the I7-9700K which sells for $200 used on ebay.
You would get 8 threads and a single thread rating around 548.
A fair upgrade.
But, consider that a modern $150 13th gen cpu like the i3-13100 would give you a score of 678
A lga1700 motherboard might be $100.
You could keep your ddr4 ram.

Is 16gb enough? No game, by itself needs more.
The issue will come if you are also heavily multitasking.

To assess this, access task manager/resource monitor/memory tab/hard page fault column. Do this after pushing the pc hard. If the hard fault rate is zero or near to it, you have sufficient ram.

This is super helpful! Thank you so much for the in depth response, you actually gave me a lot of info.

So I am not super knowledgeable on all this (which is why I came to this website!) but the reason I am looking for an upgrade is because I can tell my CPU is not getting the job done. I play a lot of different games, a lot of them are shooters, and my CPU usage is at 100% when I am running low graphics and low FPS. From my research online, the i5-9400f is not a solid CPU, which is why I am looking to upgrade. However, the fact that a modern CPU and compatible motherboard might be around the same price as an i7-9700k makes me think about going that direction. Would it be simple enough for me to purchase the motherboard and CPU and attach the rest of the existing parts or would i run into different compatibility issues?

 

[libyanfire]

I would not put an i9 in that board. The VRM's will not handle such a power hungry chip. Honestly, I would switch out the whole platform. A 9900k is going to run you $300 by itself. For a similar cost, you could get a faster 5700x, and B550 board. Sticking with Intel, expect to pay at least $100 more, for 12th or 13th gen.

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 5700X 3.4 GHz 8-Core Processor ($179.00 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Thermalright Assassin King SE 66.17 CFM CPU Cooler ($23.40 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: ASRock B550M PG RIPTIDE Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard ($104.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $307.39
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-03-02 11:03 EST-0500


Edit:
A 6700xt is way faster, than a 3060, for a similar cost. Also included ram.

PCPartPicker Part List

Memory: Kingston FURY Beast 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory ($69.99 @ B&H)
Video Card: ASRock Challenger D OC Radeon RX 6700 XT 12 GB Video Card ($349.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $419.98
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-03-02 11:08 EST-0500

So you believe that AMD has better CPUs for a better price? Like I mentioned in this thread, I am super newbie when it comes to this type of stuff. Would love some more insight on this and what a feasible upgrade route would look like?

 

[rickypicky5]

As others have indicated, even though an i9-9900/i7-9700 will fit into your motherboard's socket, it's likely the CPU will not run at its advertised boost speeds due to its VRM. Additionally, the max ram speed on a B360 chipset motherboard is 2666. So really, you need at least a new motherboard and CPU to do any meaningful CPU related upgrade.

You could just upgrade the GPU, but I'd be a little wary of that because your PSU, even though it has enough power for an upgraded GPU, only has a 3 year warranty.

 

[libyanfire]

As others have indicated, even though an i9-9900/i7-9700 will fit into your motherboard's socket, it's likely the CPU will not run at its advertised boost speeds due to its VRM. Additionally, the max ram speed on a B360 chipset motherboard is 2666. So really, you need at least a new motherboard and CPU to do any meaningful CPU related upgrade.

You could just upgrade the GPU, but I'd be a little wary of that because your PSU, even though it has enough power for an upgraded GPU, only has a 3 year warranty.

Thanks for letting me know that. Once again, I really appreciate all the help I can get. So it’s looking more and more like I’m going to have to upgrade the motherboard as well. Are there any potential compatibility issues with the other parts I should be aware of? Also, since I am going to have to get a new motherboard, should I be looking at AMD compatible mobos? Is that a preference thing or is one better than the other? And would you mind elaborating a little further on your PSU comments?

 

[rickypicky5]

My comment on your PSU was it has just a 3 year warranty and if you've had your PC since April or May of 2020 then you've had it for almost 3 years.

 

[libyanfire]

My comment on your PSU was it has just a 3 year warranty and if you've had your PC since April or May of 2020 then you've had it for almost 3 years.

Does that mean it will need to be replaced?

 

[rickypicky5]

Does that mean it will need to be replaced?

No, it's just something to be aware of when purchasing a new GPU.

 

[logainofhades]

https://www.amazon.com/Apevia-ATX-PR800W-Prestige-Certified-Compliance/dp/B07NWZZXHQ/ref=mp_s_a_1_2_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=apevia+power+supply&qid=1614962884&sprefix=apivia+&sr=8-2-spons&psc=1&smid=AEHA1AAWZIC3L&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUFZMUpZMkszT0oxNDYmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTA0ODQyMzMyVDZXVklQSFFWQ0lOJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTAyMTQ2OTNNMk9GRFJFTEMzSzcmd2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9waG9uZV9zZWFyY2hfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

This is the PSU I am pretty sure after doing some research. And this PC was purchased in April or May of 2020.

Apevia makes some of the worst quality PSU's known to man, that needs replaced, before you do anything else.

 

[helper800]

Does that mean it will need to be replaced?

Let me outline the issues you will face upgrading any that PC;

1. The motherboard that they sent with that PC likely does not have good enough VRMs for a 9700 CPU or better.
2. The PSU that they provided with the PC is not reliable and may cause damage to higher power parts regardless of what its 800w rating may imply.
3. The CPU cooler that came with your 9400f is most likely bare minimum and will not be adequate for a 9700 or better.
4. The RAM speed support for your motherboard is only 2666mghz which is not particularly fast.
5. Investing into older prebuilts is typically dubious at best unless you are very particular about the motherboard, PSU, and case that it comes with.

I personally recommend getting at the very minimum; a new CPU, motherboard, CPU cooler, RAM, and PSU. This is nearly a complete PC. The case your PC came in is most likely not the greatest for airflow and this can cause thermal throttling. A new case is not required but recommended. You should keep the graphics card for now and decide if you need a new one after you get the other parts assembled and test the new setup. What is the exact case that came with your prebuilt PC? If you cannot find that out post some pictures of it so we can see if it supports ATX motherboards, good CPU cooler clearance, and decent airflow.

Something like this would be a great place to start:

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 7600X 4.7 GHz 6-Core Processor ($240.93 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 SE 66.17 CFM CPU Cooler ($42.90 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Gigabyte B650M AORUS ELITE AX Micro ATX AM5 Motherboard ($179.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Mushkin Redline 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-5600 CL36 Memory ($114.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair RM650x (2021) 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($99.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $678.80
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-03-02 14:21 EST-0500

A new case like this would serve you well if that is something that you need:

PCPartPicker Part List

Case: Fractal Design Focus 2 ATX Mid Tower Case ($66.98 @ Newegg)
Total: $66.98
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-03-02 14:23 EST-0500

 

[libyanfire]

Let me outline the issues you will face upgrading any that PC;

1. The motherboard that they sent with that PC likely does not have good enough VRMs for a 9700 CPU or better.
2. The PSU that they provided with the PC is not reliable and may cause damage to higher power parts regardless of what its 800w rating may imply.
3. The CPU cooler that came with your 9400f is most likely bare minimum and will not be adequate for a 9700 or better.
4. The RAM speed support for your motherboard is only 2666mghz which is not particularly fast.
5. Investing into older prebuilts is typically dubious at best unless you are very particular about the motherboard, PSU, and case that it comes with.

I personally recommend getting at the very minimum; a new CPU, motherboard, CPU cooler, RAM, and PSU. This is nearly a complete PC. The case your PC came in is most likely not the greatest for airflow and this can cause thermal throttling. A new case is not required but recommended. You should keep the graphics card for now and decide if you need a new one after you get the other parts assembled and test the new setup. What is the exact case that came with your prebuilt PC? If you cannot find that out post some pictures of it so we can see if it supports ATX motherboards, good CPU cooler clearance, and decent airflow.

Something like this would be a great place to start:

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 7600X 4.7 GHz 6-Core Processor ($240.93 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 SE 66.17 CFM CPU Cooler ($42.90 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Gigabyte B650M AORUS ELITE AX Micro ATX AM5 Motherboard ($179.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Mushkin Redline 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-5600 CL36 Memory ($114.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair RM650x (2021) 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($99.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $678.80
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-03-02 14:21 EST-0500

A new case like this would serve you well if that is something that you need:

PCPartPicker Part List

Case: Fractal Design Focus 2 ATX Mid Tower Case ($66.98 @ Newegg)
Total: $66.98
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-03-02 14:23 EST-0500

Thank you so much for that information. I definitely agree with you after receiving some feedback that at the very least, the CPU, motherboard, CPU cooler and PSU need upgrades. Would you mind explaining why I would need to upgrade the RAM as well? I have the link below to the exact pre-built that my parents got me, I think that would be better for you to figure out what type of case it is. I would love to know if that case needs upgrading as well.

https://www.amazon.com/CYBERPOWERPC-Xtreme-i5-9400F-GeForce-GXiVR8060A8/dp/B07VGJDKZ4

 

[logainofhades]

Assuming your current ram is 2666, it will hold back performance. Gamer's Nexus did a review on the 10400f, and when forced to run at 2666mhz ram, it would lose to a lowly Ryzen 3 3300x, on a cheap B450 board, and ddr4 3200. They even did a separate video, where they did some serious tuning, on the 2666, and still couldn't bridge the gap. AM5 will require DDR5, if you go that route.

 

[Lafong]

I definitely agree with you after receiving some feedback that at the very least, the CPU, motherboard, CPU cooler and PSU need upgrades. Would you mind explaining why I would need to upgrade the RAM as well?

https://www.amazon.com/CYBERPOWERPC-Xtreme-i5-9400F-GeForce-GXiVR8060A8/dp/B07VGJDKZ4

If you have 16 gb RAM now, that wouldn't be at the top of the list for upgrades..

The more parts you buy, the less sense it makes to use the remaining few rather than sell it all as it sits.

If you replace the major components, would you be able to sell the replaced parts?

You could of course just replace motherboard, CPU, PSU, and cooler. That would probably be the minimum.

Likely a full ATX case, but it could be proprietary in some sense and prove problematic as you try to re-use it.

 

[libyanfire]

Assuming your current ram is 2666, it will hold back performance. Gamer's Nexus did a review on the 10400f, and when forced to run at 2666mhz ram, it would lose to a lowly Ryzen 3 3300x, on a cheap B450 board, and ddr4 3200. They even did a separate video, where they did some serious tuning, on the 2666, and still couldn't bridge the gap. AM5 will require DDR5, if you go that route.

Okay i think i see what you are saying. The current “gen” of RAM I am using will limit the CPU’s power. So I should look for a mobo that supports DDR5?

 

[logainofhades]

Okay i think i see what you are saying. The current “gen” of RAM I am using will limit the CPU’s power. So I should look for a mobo that supports DDR5?

You do not need to go DDR5 unless you go with a Ryzen 7000 chip. If you go with Ryzen 5000, or intel 12th or 13th gen, you can still do DDR4, but you are going to want at least DDR4 3200 CL16. 12th and 13th gen Intel can do DDR4 or DDR5, so be careful on board and ram selection. DDR4 won't work in a DDR5 board, for example. It won't even install.

 

[libyanfire]

If you have 16 gb RAM now, that wouldn't be at the top of the list for upgrades..

The more parts you buy, the less sense it makes to use the remaining few rather than sell it all as it sits.

If you replace the major components, would you be able to sell the replaced parts?

You could of course just replace motherboard, CPU, PSU, and cooler. That would probably be the minimum.

Likely a full ATX case, but it could be proprietary in some sense and prove problematic as you try to re-use it.

Yes I do have 16 gb DDR4 RAM but I understand what you’re saying. If I am upgrading the rest of the parts that are mentioned, might as well find a buyer for the prebuilt and upgrade to a totally different build?

 

[libyanfire]

You do not need to go DDR5 unless you go with a Ryzen 7000 chip. If you go with Ryzen 5000, or intel 12th or 13th gen, you can still do DDR4, but you are going to want at least DDR4 3200 CL16. 12th and 13th gen Intel can do DDR4 or DDR5, so be careful on board and ram selection. DDR4 won't work in a DDR5 board, for example. It won't even install.

Okay that makes sense. Thank you for the insight.

 

[Lafong]

Yes I do have 16 gb DDR4 RAM but I understand what you’re saying. If I am upgrading the rest of the parts that are mentioned, might as well find a buyer for the prebuilt and upgrade to a totally different build?

That would be my inclination if cost is much of a concern.

But for all I know, cost is a minimal factor and the used parts might go in the garbage without a second thought.

Someone might say "keep this part and reuse it", but what does that do to the resale value?

What's it worth as is? Three years old? $400? I don't know.