Question Need help deciding what CPU to get AMD or Intel

Nov 24, 2019
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So not so long ago upgraded from Gtx 1070 to gtx 1080ti and there is fps improvment but i think cause of my not so great CPU i am not getting as much as i could with gtx 1080 ti.

First of all here is my current setup:

GPU: Asus Strix GTX 1080 Ti
CPU: Ryzen 7 1700x
RAM: HyperX Fury 16GB DDR4 2400mhz
Cooler: Coolermaster TX3 EVO
MOBO: Gigabyte AX370-Gaming 3
HDD: 2.5TB Toshiba
SSD: Samsung 860 EVO 250GB
PSU: Coolermaster Master Lite 600w



And easiest thing for me was just to upgrade from 1700x to 3800x (hopefully wouldnt have to change MOBO since they are same socket). But i cant find many people with simular setup to compare to mine online.

But for some reason i fear i wont get much fps boost switching from 1700x to 3800x and that the change will be just 20fps more which is not what i want. So i started comparing 1080 TIs setups from other streamers (i will be using my PC to stream too) and since i will stream mostly Apex Legends i started looking into what CPUs and what FPS some of them are getting when streaming. And i saw lots of streamers (that are not using streamer PC seperatly) use i7 8600k/8700k and they get about 60-70 fps more then i do with same gpu. When i stream avrg is about 110-120 i think, sometimes it can drop to 90 and sometimes it can get to 150, i am using 144hz monitor on 1080p, and streamers that used i7 8600/8700 are not going bellow 150 fps, ever, and are on avrg 190-200 fps. So could i expect same results with 3800x? Should i go for 3800x with my current mobo or i7 8600 + new mobo?
 

Darkbreeze

Titan
Moderator
You have many problems.

The first problem, and the biggest, is that you are ABSOLUTELY not going to see optimal performance out of your GTX 1080 ti using that Cooler master lite 600w. It's one of the worst power supplies ever sold by a big name brand. The mere fact that you are using it with that graphics card tells me you have much to learn about PC hardware.

The PSU is the MOST important component in ANY system. Bar none. No other component is as important as the power supply because NONE of the other hardware can even WORK without it, and if it is not working properly, and is not supplying plenty of good, clean power, with low ripple, noise and without major voltage fluctuations, then the hardware cannot work properly either.

That is without even going into the fact that with a cheap power supply like that, and it is, you are likely bombarding your motherboard and graphics card capacitors with damaging ripple which not only has an effect on performance but will absolutely kill your hardware prematurely, given enough time.

Replace it. First. Before you do ANYTHING else.

I would recommend you get a good 650-750w unit from among the recommended models here:



Next, you are running a Ryzen system that THRIVES on fast memory, and yet you are running one step up from the slowest possible memory you could be running. 2933mhz should be the SLOWEST memory speed used with any Ryzen platform that will support it or faster kits. Upgrading the CPU is a good idea, but if you do, and you are running 2400mhz memory, you're probably going to see WAY less of an improvement than you would otherwise. I assure you, 100%, those "other streamers" are not likely to be running a 1st gen Ryzen CPU and if they are, or even if they are not, you can bet they are running MUCH faster memory. 3000mhz kits or higher should be all you are looking at. If you are going to upgrade to one of the Zen2 3000 series CPUs, you do would be wise to go with something between 3200 and 3600mhz in a 2 x8GB or 2 x16GB kit. Four DIMMs almost always causes problems on Ryzen for running high speed kits unless you are running B-die sticks and even then it may depending on the speed of the kit.

For the CPU. You will absolutely see a difference in performance, even just jumping to a Ryzen 5 3600, from what you have now.

The R5 3600 has about a 48% increase in single threaded performance over the 1700x. The 3700x is even more, like 54% increase. Overall, threaded performance, is about a 34% total increase from the 1700x to the R5 3600, but going from the 1700x to the 3700x would give you an overall multithreaded increase of 61% in performance.

For streaming, where that is a consideration, there is no comparison between the 8600k or 8700k and the 3700x because it has both faster single core performance AND more threads, and having more cores/threads is fundamentally one of the biggest factors for retaining good performance WHILE streaming. It is considered heavy multitasking and heavy multitasking is best accomplished with more threads. When those threads also have better single core performance, that just ups the ante even more.

Obviously, these are all options though, because the 8700k, 9700k, 9900k, R5 3600, 3600x, 3700x and 3800x ALL have MUCH better performance than your 1700x.

All of these things taken into account, plus the fact that you have a CPU cooler that is in NO WAY capable of adequate cooling on that 1700x, so you are probably also seeing core or VRM throttling, adds up to the poor performance you are seeing and you really need to address all these issues if you want to find the performance you believe you should have, but do not.
 
Reactions: mitch074
Nov 24, 2019
2
0
10
0
You have many problems.

The first problem, and the biggest, is that you are ABSOLUTELY not going to see optimal performance out of your GTX 1080 ti using that Cooler master lite 600w. It's one of the worst power supplies ever sold by a big name brand. The mere fact that you are using it with that graphics card tells me you have much to learn about PC hardware.

The PSU is the MOST important component in ANY system. Bar none. No other component is as important as the power supply because NONE of the other hardware can even WORK without it, and if it is not working properly, and is not supplying plenty of good, clean power, with low ripple, noise and without major voltage fluctuations, then the hardware cannot work properly either.

That is without even going into the fact that with a cheap power supply like that, and it is, you are likely bombarding your motherboard and graphics card capacitors with damaging ripple which not only has an effect on performance but will absolutely kill your hardware prematurely, given enough time.

Replace it. First. Before you do ANYTHING else.

I would recommend you get a good 650-750w unit from among the recommended models here:



Next, you are running a Ryzen system that THRIVES on fast memory, and yet you are running one step up from the slowest possible memory you could be running. 2933mhz should be the SLOWEST memory speed used with any Ryzen platform that will support it or faster kits. Upgrading the CPU is a good idea, but if you do, and you are running 2400mhz memory, you're probably going to see WAY less of an improvement than you would otherwise. I assure you, 100%, those "other streamers" are not likely to be running a 1st gen Ryzen CPU and if they are, or even if they are not, you can bet they are running MUCH faster memory. 3000mhz kits or higher should be all you are looking at. If you are going to upgrade to one of the Zen2 3000 series CPUs, you do would be wise to go with something between 3200 and 3600mhz in a 2 x8GB or 2 x16GB kit. Four DIMMs almost always causes problems on Ryzen for running high speed kits unless you are running B-die sticks and even then it may depending on the speed of the kit.

For the CPU. You will absolutely see a difference in performance, even just jumping to a Ryzen 5 3600, from what you have now.

The R5 3600 has about a 48% increase in single threaded performance over the 1700x. The 3700x is even more, like 54% increase. Overall, threaded performance, is about a 34% total increase from the 1700x to the R5 3600, but going from the 1700x to the 3700x would give you an overall multithreaded increase of 61% in performance.

For streaming, where that is a consideration, there is no comparison between the 8600k or 8700k and the 3700x because it has both faster single core performance AND more threads, and having more cores/threads is fundamentally one of the biggest factors for retaining good performance WHILE streaming. It is considered heavy multitasking and heavy multitasking is best accomplished with more threads. When those threads also have better single core performance, that just ups the ante even more.

Obviously, these are all options though, because the 8700k, 9700k, 9900k, R5 3600, 3600x, 3700x and 3800x ALL have MUCH better performance than your 1700x.

All of these things taken into account, plus the fact that you have a CPU cooler that is in NO WAY capable of adequate cooling on that 1700x, so you are probably also seeing core or VRM throttling, adds up to the poor performance you are seeing and you really need to address all these issues if you want to find the performance you believe you should have, but do not.
Yeah i know my PSU is not as good but so far i never had any problems with it like shutting down or anything. And as far as i know only way PSU can affect gaming is by being to weak to even run the system hense shutting down. But yes, i will probably replace it as soon as possible. Also i never had any problems with overheating with my current heatsink, if i do see that happen after i change cpu i will make sure to change heatsink, i am already thinking about switching to water cooling. So basically taking 3800x is better option then i7 8600k/8700k? Also what about my mobo, would it be compatible with new 3800x?

Also i need to add up i just tried to overclock my ram up to 2800 and got voltage to 1.5v and ive been playing Apex for about 40-50 minutes now and i got no signs of it being unstable so far. Will try out more, and i got at least 50fps improvement. When i was getting ryzen i didnt do my research and i didnt know it was so much dependent on memory speed. But right now instead of getting avrg 90fps on ultra settings on apex i get about 140avrg. sometimes drops to 110 and it can go up to 170. On lowest setting i am getting about 170-180 avrg going down to 130 lowest (really rare) and 220 and above sometimes. I guess my biggest problem then was ram speed. Btw my ram was at 1.2v before. Hope 1.5 isnt too much
 

Darkbreeze

Titan
Moderator
Nobody ever had a problem with anything, until they did. That doesn't change the fact that some things in life, whether it's a car, or a television, or a phone, or washing machine, or a power supply, are much more prone to failure and to catastrophic failure, than other things, that are better built to higher standards, without cutting corners on design, quality and protections. The biggest problem I foresee is that when a power supply like THAT one, decided to go, it usually takes other hardware with it or gets a few good kicks in before it dies anyhow.

If you think the only way a power supply can affect gaming is by not working at all, you are in for a rude awakening. Ripple and voltage fluctuation can have an immediate and dramatic impact on clock speeds as well as affecting component longevity. Boost rates, base clock speeds and overclocking can all be affected by high levels of ripple that cause capacitors to overheat and voltage fluctuation or an inability to sustain a clean power delivery in sufficient quantity as well. Too many ways to get into in a short description but suffice to say, your idea that they either work or don't, is far from factual. I've seen literally HUNDREDS of users here with performance issues that were completely resolved by replacing an old or poor quality PSU that had nothing whatsoever to do with shutting down or restarting. At all.

Where the memory is concerned, you should REALLY read this, all of it.



AND this:

https://www.overclock.net/forum/18051-memory/1630388-comprehensive-memory-overclocking-guide.html


Because I'm pretty sure that you have NOT done the required memory testing to ensure stability, and the mere fact that it hasn't crashed, doesn't mean much honestly.
 

G-star93

Honorable
Oct 19, 2014
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Your whole system is so unbalanced it hurts. Imho i would buy better psu, tier1 ofc like corsair rmx 650-750, evga g2/g1+ 650-750w and new ram, 3600mhz cl16 they are cheap and fast and decent case latency. For cpu i would personaly go with i7 9700k, it’s still better than any ryzen out there for gaming to be honest, its still has the best raw performance. I was deciding for a week if i should get ryzen 3700/3800x or 9700k and after many many comparisons i ordered 9700k, its better on avg 10-15fps and all the way up to a 40fps difference in games like rainbow six siege and cs:go. And its just 30-40€ difference so realy it was a no brainer. But even 3700x its a good choice, i just want that extra performance.
 
Your whole system is so unbalanced it hurts. Imho i would buy better psu, tier1 ofc like corsair rmx 650-750, evga g2/g1+ 650-750w and new ram, 3600mhz cl16 they are cheap and fast and decent case latency. For cpu i would personaly go with i7 9700k, it’s still better than any ryzen out there for gaming to be honest, its still has the best raw performance. I was deciding for a week if i should get ryzen 3700/3800x or 9700k and after many many comparisons i ordered 9700k, its better on avg 10-15fps and all the way up to a 40fps difference in games like rainbow six siege and cs:go. And its just 30-40€ difference so realy it was a no brainer. But even 3700x its a good choice, i just want that extra performance.
I’m pulling this from another thread but in these benchmarks Ryzen was inline or ahead in CS GO.
https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/ca6xiu View: https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/ca6xiu/amd_now_has_the_fastest_cpu_for_csgo_according_to/
 

mitch074

Distinguished
Get a new PSU. I personally recommend FSP for a good price/quality ratio (they actually make PSU for other brands). Shutdowns are not the only problems you get with a crappy PSU, throttling too.
Get faster RAM - 16 Gb 3200 is the current sweet spot. Vengeance LPX work wonders with any Ryzen generation.
A 3600X is faster all around than your CPU, except if you only did 3D rendering on that rig where the 4 extra threads would pull ahead slightly. Even then, a 3800X or 39x0X would be a significant upgrade. And you can keep your current motherboard with any of these.
Forget about Intel until 2021 - they lose everywhere except in games with the i9 provided you have a 2080ti.
 

Encryption+

Upstanding
Sep 26, 2019
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What is your budget for this upgrade? Once we know that we can tell you what the best upgrades for your system would be within that budget. Obviously the PSU is the top priority on the upgrade list, but after that there are several other things that could use upgrading for optimum performance.
 

rigg42

Notable
Oct 17, 2018
605
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I have to agree with the consensus. Upgrade the PSU before you do anything. The next step is to try and overclock the RAM. If that fails buy a faster kit. The config is all around pretty terrible for high refresh low res gaming. In all honesty, with the exception of the GPU, none of the components are really worth building around.

  1. The PSU is crap
  2. The motherboard has a terrible VRM
  3. The RAM is too slow
  4. The SSD is too small
  5. The CPU doesn't have enough single core speed for what you are trying to achieve
  6. The cooler is inadequate for the CPU
If it were me I'd pull the GPU, pop a used RX 470/570/480/580 in there, OC the RAM and flip it on craigslist. Starting over and building around the 1080ti is ideal although I realize this may not be an option for you. Assuming the board has a bios update to support 3000 CPU's you might get away with running a 3700x on it. A 3600 is a good fit for the mobo/cooler. It should have about the same multi-core performance with much better single core. . A 3600, a quality PSU, and OCing /upgrading the RAM would go a long way.
 

Darkbreeze

Titan
Moderator
I have to agree with the consensus. Upgrade the PSU before you do anything. The next step is to try and overclock the RAM. If that fails buy a faster kit. The config is all around pretty terrible for high refresh low res gaming. In all honesty, with the exception of the GPU, none of the components are really worth building around.

  1. The PSU is crap
  2. The motherboard has a terrible VRM
  3. The RAM is too slow
  4. The SSD is too small
  5. The CPU doesn't have enough single core speed for what you are trying to achieve
  6. The cooler is inadequate for the CPU
If it were me I'd pull the GPU, pop a used RX 470/570/480/580 in there, OC the RAM and flip it on craigslist. Starting over and building around the 1080ti is ideal although I realize this may not be an option for you. Assuming the board has a bios update to support 3000 CPU's you might get away with running a 3700x on it. A 3600 is a good fit for the mobo/cooler. It should have about the same multi-core performance with much better single core. . A 3600, a quality PSU, and OCing /upgrading the RAM would go a long way.
This almost sounds like an echo of what I said in the first post. Must be true. 😁
 

Simran Jeet

Reputable
Oct 2, 2015
142
3
4,715
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Yes u can expect same results as i7 8700 with ryzen 7 3800x maybe even better, just make sure to get faster ram not less than 3200mhz. I7 9700 is faster in terms of gaming but its not that big of a difference and as you are going to stream and game with one pc so 3800x makes more sense, and it makes even more sense when you see that you don't have to upgrade your motherboard.
 
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Yes running something that will fit completely into "game cache" will run much faster on ryzen,that benchmark is like 4Mb large.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?l=greek&id=500334237
The problem is that that the normal game is much bigger.
 

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